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  1. #26
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    You know why it's called Dodge? Because you want to get the f**k out of it.
    Ghurarmu shirkush’ agh azgushu. Zant ya apakurizak. Gűl-n’ anakhizak.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    You know why it's called Dodge? Because you want to get the f**k out of it.
    LOL
    Having owned a Dakota for a few years I agree 100%

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    You know why it's called Dodge? Because you want to get the f**k out of it.
    hahhahahha. . So true. A clown I work with has a Dodge Ram truck. It's not even 8 years old and is on his second engine. Then a few months ago found lots of rust in the back. Unreal people buy those things. Remember Al Bundy's brown Dodge?

  4. #29
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    I've probably said this before, but I have had great luck with my 2003 Toyota Tundra. It's the base V6, and I'm coming up to 125,000 miles. So far it has needed O2 sensors (std Toyo AFAIK at a little over 100k), plugs (2x, but the second set were not great plugs) and one set of front brake pads.

    While it is true I'm pretty easy on cars, and drive a truck like a truck I have been very pleased. I'm overdue for the timing belt/wp service, and I need an alignment (first) and a third set of tires but I have no complaints.
    "A man is judged by the company he keeps, and a company is judged by the men it keeps, and the people of Democratic nations are judged by the type and caliber of officers they elect."
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcfarton View Post
    i have worked in the automotive industry for 2 decades and can assure you that your ford is the opposite of quality. but I do agree that American cars in general ride nicer than Japanese cars.

    I worked in automotive engineering and manufacturing for a decade, and can tell you that the parts that were made using the processes that I designed, on the machines that I bought, and using the tooling and Gauges that I designed were best in class. Mine was a Ford Plant. We had a sister company in Germany that couldn't hold a candle to our quality or output. We made parts for jaguar, Cadillac, dodge, and obviously Ford.

    Say what your want, but I saw the quality every day. Yes, we made bad parts from time to time, but we were very vigilant to keep them from shipping. It was painful at times.

    During my time in the plant I rejected hundreds of thousands of bad parts made in Japanese factories. We bought forgings from them. Thier processes And tooling were poorly designed, in-process gauges were non existent in their production areas. The president of the Japanese company actually flew from Japan to meet with me for a half hour to apologize for the poor quality of parts they were shipping. I told him, via a translator, that an email would have been better, as he could have better spent the time on his production floor fixing the problems first hand.
    To those in uniform, both present and past, who have protected my freedoms, I thank you. I've had a good life so far.

  6. #31
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    I love both rides!!!!!

    Ford vs Honda quality comparison-img_1799.jpg
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  7. #32
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    These things seem to go in 20 year cycles, right now the overall quality of most Japanese cars are down with the exception of Subaru who at least uses quality mechanicals. But even with American cars I would avoid I4 or V6 cylinder engines, I've known to many people including myself that have had nothing but trouble with those engines, it seems the Japanese have the best 4 cylinder engines in the world, but overall quality of American mid to high end cars have improved a lot especially just in this year. I've been in both (from a renting standpoint) Ford Fusion and Focus, the Focus was junk but the Fusion was a very nice solidly built car, not sure how good the mechanicals will be only time will tell that, but just from driving the Fusion it was the best of all the cars I rented either from GM, Chrysler, Toyota, or Honda, (in that class of car) and I'm not talking just a tad better but hands down better! My opinion of course. I've rented a lot of cars over the years and most haven't impressed me since the 80's really! GM also has a new Impala I rented about twice as large as last years with enough leg space in the front that a pro basketball player would be comfortable in and still have some leg space in the rear! And it had a very nice solid interior though it was vinyl but it was a lot thicker and nicer look and feel than vinyl in the past they've used. And the new Ford F150 aluminum body truck is just fantastic, again another excellent quality interior and exterior vehicle that puts GM and Chrysler trucks out to pasture, but not sure about the mechanicals yet of the smaller V6's. Maybe in the mid to high end cars America is finally wanting to take back the market in quality? I hope so.

  8. #33
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    In general newer cars have went on a major diet due to the EPA higher MPG requirements. What I have noticed is that newer cars have much lighter sheet metal and are much lighter in general as weight is the major way the Auto manufacturers can get their MPG up to meet the new mandates.

    I purchased a 2012 Sonata and a 2013 Escape and they are both pretty light and get good MPG, but the ride definitely suffers as its very difficult to make a light car ride well. The mass isn't there and they cant make the suspensions light enough to make the light cars ride like a heavy car. So it is with your F150 truck. Because the wheel base is longer and the truck weighs over 5000 lbs they still ride very comfortable. We are in a time when all the cars are getting lighter and better MPG. The sacrifices that come with this trade off is most of the components are much lighter, and to a lot of people they would say they feel "cheaper". They are definitely and the doors on a new vehicle are much lighter than say our family 1969 Ford LTD.

    But look at the MPG of the LTD that maybe got 18 MPG on the highway, and my 2012 Sonata that gets 34 MPG on the highway and the sonata has just as much room inside the car as the LTD had. The LTD weighed in at 5300 LBS. The sonata weighs in at 3300 LBS.
    Ride down the highway the LTD was a luxury cruiser that you couldn't feel the bumps in the road. The LTD had a V-8 302 5.0 Liter) engine that produced 165 HP. The sonata has a 2.0 Liter turbo engine that produces 268 HP. The LTD went from 0-60 MPG in 12 seconds, the Sonata does 0-60 in less than 8 seconds.

    So in conclusions there are differences in new cars from the cars of yesterday. Some good and some not so good. One thing we can be sure of the changes are here to stay, and there wont be cars produced like the 1969 LTD.

  9. #34
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    We are definitely in the golden age of fast cars. My TRUCK is quicker than my big block Buick muscle car, and probably handles better.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  10. #35
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    If you place any stock in Consumers Reports, their 2015 Car Brand Report Card puts Honda at #8 of 28 brands with Ford at #24, noting Ford's overall low reliability reports.

  11. #36
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    I was just in Montana and my rental car was a Ford Explorer. It was a lumbering gas hog. However I had an 07 Civic that I bought new and while I owned it the block cracked and was fixed on a recall because the engine was cast using poor materials, the rear wheels were crooked and they fixed it with a fix it kit but they were still crooked so I got to replace the rear wheels every 25,000 miles because they cannot be aligned. The air conditioner broke and after going to 4 different dealers and spending $700.00 on diagnostics they could not fix it. So take your pick between a lumbering gas hog and a lemon. I have a new Forrester now and after 6K miles I am happy. I will have to let you know in 10 years how it turned out. However it is peppy, light feeling, quick handling and mixed gas mileage is 28.2. It is very comfortable. The cross rails are not compatible with Yakima bike racks so I had to buy a Yakima roof rack.

  12. #37
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    My 2000 Ford Explorer turned over 180,000 miles today and my wife's 2008 Honda Odyssey has about 110 K on it (she drives more than me). Very happy with both and I plan on keeping the Explorer until it hits 200K. Neither have had any engine or drivetrain issues. Have replaced most of the A/C system on the Explorer over time but I live in FL and we pretty much run the A/C year round, so no complaints there.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
    If you place any stock in Consumers Reports, their 2015 Car Brand Report Card puts Honda at #8 of 28 brands with Ford at #24, noting Ford's overall low reliability reports.
    meh. never really had a high opinion of Consumer Reports, mostly because my personal experience has never seemed to jive with what they have said I should expect.

    Nowadays even the worst cars are much better than the best cars of 25 years ago.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    In general, I have found Toyotas to be better value than Honda (which for some reason I want to like better -- maybe they are less stoggy). The minivan was a much better value (price) than the almost identical honda version.
    That's because Toyota is the king of cutting corners. If you think honda's interior quality is cheap, Toyotas is damn near criminal. Also, the Odyssey is really a much better van than the Sienna.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    ehh, I ain't buying that. I've seen our crews absolutely destroy Chevy and Toyota trucks, but they can't touch the Fords. Tough as hell and no major repairs of any kind on 3 F150s in almost 9 years.
    F150's work, and they work well. It's the single best vehicle Ford makes (and the one they sell the most of) because everything Ford does rides on the success of the F150.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    My Hondas unmistakably possess some of the sporting DNA that founder Soichiro Honda put into his race cars and motorcycles.
    That sporting DNA was once resplendent in even the most pedestrian econoboxes honda used to make...Accords, Civics with 127 hp engines...and double wishbone suspensions (or semi trailing arm, depending on the chassis) front and rear. Now, Honda has lost its way and is more akin to "poor man's toyota." Soichiro Honda is spinning in his grave (the opposite direction, of course) at the kind of crap honda are coming up with these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    hahhahahha. . So true. A clown I work with has a Dodge Ram truck. It's not even 8 years old and is on his second engine. Then a few months ago found lots of rust in the back. Unreal people buy those things. Remember Al Bundy's brown Dodge?
    I just bought a RAM. I bought it because RAM/Fiat had the balls to put a diesel in a half-ton and were smart enough to outsource transmission design to ZF. It's a great truck so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    We are definitely in the golden age of fast cars. My TRUCK is quicker than my big block Buick muscle car, and probably handles better.
    enh, I dunno. The current age of fast cars is all about inaccessible and proprietary technology that is overcomplicated, expensive to repair, and answering questions I never asked. I want a lightweight, naturally aspirated, manual trans car with a radio and an AC. I wouldn't be mad at bluetooth connectivity, but I can get that in the aftermarket anyway. I suppose it's fitting that I've got an S2000, which is pretty much that.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlox5 View Post

    enh, I dunno. The current age of fast cars is all about inaccessible and proprietary technology that is overcomplicated, expensive to repair, and answering questions I never asked. I want a lightweight, naturally aspirated, manual trans car with a radio and an AC. I wouldn't be mad at bluetooth connectivity, but I can get that in the aftermarket anyway. I suppose it's fitting that I've got an S2000, which is pretty much that.
    I, for one, love the proliferation of turbocharged cars. They are often only a tune away from another 50+ hp. Cars in 2015 aren't really that much more complicated to work on and modify than they were 15 years ago. In fact they are actually easier in a lot of ways if you are computer savvy.

    The lightweight thing... blame the safety regulations for that one. But you can still buy a 2400# Alfa 4c if you want light weight (manual steering too!).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    I, for one, love the proliferation of turbocharged cars. They are often only a tune away from another 50+ hp. Cars in 2015 aren't really that much more complicated to work on and modify than they were 15 years ago. In fact they are actually easier in a lot of ways if you are computer savvy.

    The lightweight thing... blame the safety regulations for that one. But you can still buy a 2400# Alfa 4c if you want light weight (manual steering too!).
    So hot for the 4C. Just have to figure out if I really want an italian car/electrical demon spawn.

    I appreciate turbos for the power, but I like strung out high rev powerbands in cars. I liked my mazdaspeed3 alot, but after a while the powerband kind of got to me (and the wonky suspension). Feel much more at home in an aspirated car that revs high and likes it that way (aka small displacement 4-cylinders and inline 6's).

    strangely, on motorcycles i generally prefer the mid/low end power from twins and triples over the banshee wail peak hp @ 15,500 rpm of inline-4's.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    I've never been overly impressed by foreign cars. Japanese = cheap, German = nice but horribly unreliable and expensive to repair (most people think Volkswagen is German for "people's car", but it really means "sell this car before it reaches 100,000 miles), Korean cars are slightly upscale Japanese cars, except they handle poorly.

    I've never had any reason to go with anything other than a Ford or a GM, when it's been my choice. Heck, I just sold my 19 year old Saturn to a buddy. Wouldn't surprise me if he drives it for ten years, too. The three best daily cars I've had have been a Cavalier, Escort, and the SL1, driven a combined 26 years (and all used when I got them). Only the Cavalier was junked - blew a head gasket at 180,000 miles and decided it wasn't worth it.

    The Toyota pickup is always the last one out of the motor pool, and the first one back. It's had the suspension completely rebuilt once, while the Fords hum right along.

    I'm sure there are people with their own horror stories regarding any and all makes/nationalities of car. I've just never had any real bad luck with American cars.
    I've got four vehicles which include a 14 Kia Forte EX, 94 Cavalier, 99 Cavalier, and 96 F150. Have owned foreign cars in the past, and those two Cavaliers are hands down the most reliable cars I've ever owned.

    I've had the 99 for nine years and have replaced the alternator and a coolant hose. Unkown mileage as I put a different cluster in it for several years so I could have a tach. Fuel gauge didn't work, difference in sending units I believe for year cluster I put in, so I put the original cluster in a few years ago. It's north of 200,000 though.

    The 94 has 230,000 miles on it, and I put 100,000 of those miles on it. Car cost me $1200 and the AC still works. I did put another cylinder head on it at 210,000 miles for a scant $200 for a remanufactured head plus $40ish for headgasket and bolts. It's a pushrod motor and I can probably swap a head quicker than most people can do brakes. Pull the rockers, pushrods, exhaust manifold studs, belt tensioner, fuel rail, and hoses and it's ready to come out with the intake on it.

    The F150 has 280,000 miles on it and I drive it like a rental.

    I think the Koreans have stepped it up with the Hyundai and Kia offerings as well, although they could do better with their suspensions.

    As far as Honda or Toyota. Decent enough cars, but a lot of nut huggin.
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  18. #43
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    I had a used '94 Taurus for awhile. It died two years after I got it, with only about 80K total miles on it.

    The problem was the transmission... it went, completely, and in fact almost stranded me in the middle of the Golden Gate bridge (if it had gone out about 3 minutes sooner).

    Talked to a few different repair places, they all said the same thing: On my Ford, the transmission routinely went out somewhere between 80 and 120K miles, and it was built in such a way that it has to be completely disassembled, at considerable man-hours/cost. All estimates I got quoted to repair it exceeded the value of the vehicle. So, it was a total loss.

    Wound up donating the car to charity for a tax write-off. Next car was a used '99 Honda-CRV, which, aside from an ignition switch issue that was fixed for free under recall, gave me no major problems. It went to 175K miles before I wound up selling it to the daughter of my apt complex's gardner. It still ran fine.

    I realize that Ford has probably improved its design and quality-control in the intervening years, but still, I'd have a hard time purchasing a Ford. They screwed me over pretty bad once, don't see why I should trust them considering how many other good cars there are out there.

    Currently have a Subie Impreza Outback Sport, it's been great.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
    If you place any stock in Consumers Reports, their 2015 Car Brand Report Card puts Honda at #8 of 28 brands with Ford at #24, noting Ford's overall low reliability reports.
    The thing with CR is they take into account everything from cup holder location to the ease of use of the infotainment system along with more serious issues such as drivetrain problems. Ford gets knocked because their MyTouch is generally considered to be about the worst of the infotainment systems on the market. That's the same reason the Germans were getting knocked down 5-10 years ago when they were the early adopters of touch screen infotainment systems.

    All I have to say is I am happy my recently acquired '11 F150 does not have that, it still has traditional controls that I can operate by feel with a minimal glance at most.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    But you can still buy a 2400# Alfa 4c if you want light weight (manual steering too!).
    Quote Originally Posted by charlox5 View Post
    So hot for the 4C. Just have to figure out if I really want an italian car/electrical demon spawn.
    I hope they sell enough that I can pick up a low mileage example in 4-5 years at 50-60% of new cost.

  21. #46
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    Bought a Ford Mustang GT. Put 450,000 miles on it. Engine still purred without a visible hiccup or anything other an routine servicing. Finally got rid of the car because I no longer had a use for it. Their 302 CID 5.0 liter engine all though not technically advanced like current stuff the engine still remains one of the greatest engines built by any standard.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    I had a used '94 Taurus for awhile. It died two years after I got it, with only about 80K total miles on it.

    The problem was the transmission... it went, completely, and in fact almost stranded me in the middle of the Golden Gate bridge (if it had gone out about 3 minutes sooner).

    Talked to a few different repair places, they all said the same thing: On my Ford, the transmission routinely went out somewhere between 80 and 120K miles, and it was built in such a way that it has to be completely disassembled, at considerable man-hours/cost. All estimates I got quoted to repair it exceeded the value of the vehicle. So, it was a total loss.

    Wound up donating the car to charity for a tax write-off. Next car was a used '99 Honda-CRV, which, aside from an ignition switch issue that was fixed for free under recall, gave me no major problems. It went to 175K miles before I wound up selling it to the daughter of my apt complex's gardner. It still ran fine.

    I realize that Ford has probably improved its design and quality-control in the intervening years, but still, I'd have a hard time purchasing a Ford. They screwed me over pretty bad once, don't see why I should trust them considering how many other good cars there are out there.

    Currently have a Subie Impreza Outback Sport, it's been great.
    Two transmissions were primarily used in the Taurus, the AX4S and AX4N. AX4S was known to give problems mainly with the forward clutch piston in early years. Taurus was also known for stripped torque converter splines.

    Honda had plenty of problems with their automatic transmissions starting in '99 in Accords, Odysseys, Acura CLs, TLs, and MDXs. 100,000 miles if lucky and the transmission was known to lock up. Lock up as in cruising down the expressway and the front wheels locking up as you get slammed from behind by someone doing 70. There was a class action lawsuit of course.

    Does Honda fall under your umbrella of how many other good cars there are out there.
    Sent from my Personal Computer while tapping on the keyboard

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohvrolla View Post
    Two transmissions were primarily used in the Taurus, the AX4S and AX4N. AX4S was known to give problems mainly with the forward clutch piston in early years. Taurus was also known for stripped torque converter splines.

    Honda had plenty of problems with their automatic transmissions starting in '99 in Accords, Odysseys, Acura CLs, TLs, and MDXs. 100,000 miles if lucky and the transmission was known to lock up. Lock up as in cruising down the expressway and the front wheels locking up as you get slammed from behind by someone doing 70. There was a class action lawsuit of course.

    Does Honda fall under your umbrella of how many other good cars there are out there.
    Given my experience as CRV owner for 8 years... yes, very much so.

    Honda also consistently beats Ford in quality and reliability surveys, so that would seem to be a common experience.

    The lock-up transmission problem you cite sounds quite bad (though perhaps not super-common – this the first I've heard of it). But, by the same token, Ford Explorers were known for rolling over and severely injuring or killing their occupants.

    Do you think the lockup issue is typical of all Hondas? If so, then should the Explorer roll-over issue be seen as typical of all Fords?
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Given my experience as CRV owner for 8 years... yes, very much so.

    Honda also consistently beats Ford in quality and reliability surveys, so that would seem to be a common experience.

    The lock-up transmission problem you cite sounds quite bad (though perhaps not super-common – this the first I've heard of it). But, by the same token, Ford Explorers were known for rolling over and severely injuring or killing their occupants.

    Do you think the lockup issue is typical of all Hondas? If so, then should the Explorer roll-over issue be seen as typical of all Fords?
    This just illustrates the fact that there is very little difference these days wrt reliability between various manufacturers. Even that Dodge we had, which had a lot of little niggling problems, was not in any way shape or form unreliable. Only once before the end did it break down, and that was a battery when the car was 5 years old. Par for the course - keep a car long enough it will happen. The water pump and radiator, also par for the course, I should have probably replaced them at 100,000 just because.

    I could talk all day about the great Ford and GM cars I've had, and the lousy foreign cars my friends have had (or the pathetically easy to steal Accords that my brother had a penchant for, until he decided he didn't want to buy a new car every 5 weeks). Or you could talk about the reverse. Very little difference. Everyone makes lemons from time to time and everyone makes engineering mistakes. But most of the really bad stuff in both foreign and domestic is far in the past.

    I can say about my Honda race car, I don't think any other 80s econobox would have taken the abuse this this has had to endure. 30 years of racing on the same engine and transmission, with the transmission only giving out when a broken axle punched a hole in it, and the resulting piece went inside and shredded the input shaft bearing (but it still lasted the entire rest of the season). I could have replaced the bearing and kept on going.

    Back to the Ford, I love this truck. Comfortable, roomy, combined mileage 18.5 so far, with a consistent 24-25 hwy unloaded. The front toe was off (actually probably not, I just like different settings than factory. I like more toe in and as much positive caster as I can get. And yes, I can tell the difference). I expect to have this for 15 years at least.
    Last edited by Andy69; 05-08-2015 at 06:05 AM.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohvrolla View Post
    Two transmissions were primarily used in the Taurus, the AX4S and AX4N. AX4S was known to give problems mainly with the forward clutch piston in early years. Taurus was also known for stripped torque converter splines.

    Honda had plenty of problems with their automatic transmissions starting in '99 in Accords, Odysseys, Acura CLs, TLs, and MDXs. 100,000 miles if lucky and the transmission was known to lock up. Lock up as in cruising down the expressway and the front wheels locking up as you get slammed from behind by someone doing 70. There was a class action lawsuit of course.

    Does Honda fall under your umbrella of how many other good cars there are out there.
    Honda's auto trannies in the early oughts were terrible. But they eventually sorted them out. If anything they require some extra TLC and some aggressive ATF intervals, just for safety, but they're ok now.

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