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Thread: New turntable

  1. #26
    dcb
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    That looks like a heck of a turntable. Enjoy it! As I sit here listening to my portable Sony speaker hooked up to my phone I do miss my audiophile days. When I got married my wife deemed the speakers too big for the living room and piece by piece my system went away. At least I still have my bikes!

    I still have my vinyl tucked away someplace though and this thread really makes me want to put a system together again.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    You've obviously never heard vinyl played on a truly good turntable/arm/cartridge combo, and through a good system.

    I used to have a Linn Sondek turntable, and vinyl played on it pretty much completely blew my CD player away, to my surprise.
    He probably has a close and play

    I've got a Harmon Kardon T-35, often referred to as the poor man's Linn Sondek, with an Audio Technica AT440mla. While it doesn't blow my CDs away, I do prefer the sound.

    I picked up a pair of vintage Akai speakers, from back when they were higher end, rather than the mass-fi crap from the 80s. It's a nice match for the turntable but I'm not into fine audio as much as I'd like to be
    Last edited by Andy69; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:53 AM.
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  3. #28
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    The scout jr. comes with an ortofon 2m red cartridge already installed. Its OK. VPI markets the turntable as an intro "high end" turntable.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBT View Post
    VPI makes great tables. I'm certain you will enjoy it. If the time comes that I need to replace my LP12, they will be on the short list.

    What cartridge did you choose?

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    The Music Direct catalogue I got today has a Shinola Turntable on the cover. Bicycles. Watches. Now a turntable. I guess those folks are just crazy for circular stuff.
    Oooh. Does that mean i have a new catalog waiting in my mailbox?

    Although I'm kinda bumming now because I had to send my Parasound preamp in for warranty work, so no vinyl for me until I get it back. But I can enjoy window-shopping through a new catalog.
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  5. #30
    DBT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lauridsen View Post
    The scout jr. comes with an ortofon 2m red cartridge already installed. Its OK. VPI markets the turntable as an intro "high end" turntable.
    The Ortofon is a nice cartridge for the money. We used to install them on a lot of Rega and Project entry level tables when I was in the retail biz.

    I've long been a fan of Dynavector cartridges. The 10x5 is a nice step up, though I see it's price has gone way up. It may have more competition at the $650 price. I haven't been keeping up with all that's out there so much lately.

  6. #31
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    This is how nuts it can get. One of the turntables in the slideshow goes for $349,000 and weighs over 1,100 pounds.

    I'll stick with a 'cheap' Linn Sondek, thanks. Holy crap.

    The 10 Most Over-the-Top Turntables in the World | Slideshow
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    This is how nuts it can get. One of the turntables in the slideshow goes for $349,000 and weighs over 1,100 pounds.
    Knew a guy with his turntable on a concrete pillar tied into his foundation in his basement audio room. Such a thing seems super reasonable compared to some options for isolating the turntable from outside forces, like the one above.
    .
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Knew a guy with his turntable on a concrete pillar tied into his foundation in his basement audio room. Such a thing seems super reasonable compared to some options for isolating the turntable from outside forces, like the one above.
    I'm starting to feel like there's some higher, transcendent level of insanity in high-end audio that no one has quite hit yet, despite some really good efforts.

    And when they do finally reach it, it'll open some sort of Lovecraftian portal into a demon dimension.
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  9. #34
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    Bottom line for me is if 1) you love music, 2) the hardware actually does make the music more enjoyable for you, and 3) you can get into the cost & craziness of the hobby, then go for it.
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Knew a guy with his turntable on a concrete pillar tied into his foundation in his basement audio room. Such a thing seems super reasonable compared to some options for isolating the turntable from outside forces, like the one above.
    Bob Ludwig, a well-known name in the music business as a mastering engineer, left NYC maybe 20 years ago now, and set up operations in an old parking garage in Portland, Maine, Gateway Mastering Studios. His main listening speakers are set up on concrete pillars that go down into the bedrock, I believe.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    Bottom line for me is if 1) you love music, 2) the hardware actually does make the music more enjoyable for you, and 3) you can get into the cost & craziness of the hobby, then go for it.
    The question being, does the hardware make the music more enjoyable? Or does it just annoy you that its still not quite right, and so the frustrating quest for better continues.
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  12. #37
    DBT
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    I'm starting to feel like there's some higher, transcendent level of insanity in high-end audio that no one has quite hit yet, despite some really good efforts.

    And when they do finally reach it, it'll open some sort of Lovecraftian portal into a demon dimension.
    I've heard a rumor that Wilson Audio is readying an $800,000 pair of reference speakers. And Momentum is working on a matching set of mono amps for roughly $200,000. Insane enough?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    The question being, does the hardware make the music more enjoyable? Or does it just annoy you that its still not quite right, and so the frustrating quest for better continues.
    My hardware certainly makes the music I listen to more enjoyable. Not every hardware decision I've made has improved things, but those offending pieces of hardware never stick around. I'm not a hardware hound, in any case. if I like the way the system sounds, I can go years without a change.

    I can also say that I am currently getting the best sound I've ever gotten. I sit in my listening chair and luxuriate in the sound. I get up and dance around. Artists come alive. Orchestras show up and play for me. Coltrane comes by. So does Bowie. So does Elizabeth Schwartzkopf. Even when the fidelity of the recording isn't so perfect, my system is forgiving enough to allow me to focus on the good, not the bad. That doesn't mean, though, that the system is less than revealing.

    Sure, everybody's preferences and tastes in sound are different. If ya gotta have slam, volume and gut wrenching bass, my rig won't satisfy. Instead, I go for timbre. I go for balance. I go for dynamic nuance. I love it when I can understand every word a singer sings but i don't love it if that articulation happens because the recording is too trebly.

    Anyway, if you or any other poster is ever in L.A., send me a message. Listen to my stereo. If you hate it, well...I'll try to understand.
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  14. #39
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    Oh, I have no doubt. But there's probably a lot of self-described audiophiles whose never-ending pursuit of the "perfect" sound makes it less about the music and more about the equipment.

    My system is no where near high end, and I've been adding stuff over the past year that's made it better, but there comes a point where i'll call it good enough. I've spent more on cables the last year than I ever imagined I would, and it's still a paltry sum compared to what some will spend. But they've made a difference. I'm sure there are better more expensive cables out there that will improve the sound even more. I just don't care to dive into that rabbit hole. Nor can I justify spending that kind of coin.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Oh, I have no doubt. But there's probably a lot of self-described audiophiles whose never-ending pursuit of the "perfect" sound makes it less about the music and more about the equipment.

    My system is no where near high end, and I've been adding stuff over the past year that's made it better, but there comes a point where i'll call it good enough. I've spent more on cables the last year than I ever imagined I would, and it's still a paltry sum compared to what some will spend. But they've made a difference. I'm sure there are better more expensive cables out there that will improve the sound even more. I just don't care to dive into that rabbit hole. Nor can I justify spending that kind of coin.
    I honestly think that some 'audiophiles' are actually not music-lovers... more like audio-system-lovers. The music is just a way to measure how good the system is.

    Not saying that's always the case, or is even the case the majority of the time... but when you see the level of fussiness and/or overkill that some of them display, it just can't be completely about the music.

    There's something else going on as well, in parallel with digging the music, and maybe for some even overwhelming the love of music. And I say that as an audiophile.

    Maybe it's 'I must have THE BEST!' syndrome. Kinda like a billionaire who has gold-plated toilets at home. Or it could just be being OC.

    The funny thing about being OC in high-end audio... audio is far from being completely figured out yet, so being almost randomly OC actually works sometimes, in terms of rewarding you with better sound.

    But it's still kinda crazy.
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  16. #41
    dcb
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Oh, I have no doubt. But there's probably a lot of self-described audiophiles whose never-ending pursuit of the "perfect" sound makes it less about the music and more about the equipment.

    My system is no where near high end, and I've been adding stuff over the past year that's made it better, but there comes a point where i'll call it good enough.
    I'm sure that's true and with if we switch out a few words here and there we could probably describe the same thing going on in the cycling world.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    I'm starting to feel like there's some higher, transcendent level of insanity in high-end audio that no one has quite hit yet, despite some really good efforts.
    The goal is to make it sound like live music. But there is a problem with that.

    I've heard a high end CD played through 1k speakers, 1k amp, and 1k CD player that blew me away. Sounded live to me, especially the sax, which I had been hearing live at the time quite frequently. The problem is that if I owned that system, after a while my ear would improve and then I would be blown away by a system costing 10x that much. So yes, I can see how chasing the perfect sound is a never ending goal.

    Maximizing is a never ending process, satisficing is the route I go more and more as I age. Good enough is good enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    ... if I like the way the system sounds, I can go years without a change.

    I can also say that I am currently getting the best sound I've ever gotten. I sit in my listening chair and luxuriate in the sound. I get up and dance around. Artists come alive. Orchestras show up and play for me. Coltrane comes by. So does Bowie. So does Elizabeth Schwartzkopf. Even when the fidelity of the recording isn't so perfect, my system is forgiving enough to allow me to focus on the good, not the bad.
    And good enough can be GREAT!
    .
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  18. #43
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    The goal is to make it sound like live music. But there is a problem with that.

    I've heard a high end CD played through 1k speakers, 1k amp, and 1k CD player that blew me away. Sounded live to me, especially the sax, which I had been hearing live at the time quite frequently. The problem is that if I owned that system, after a while my ear would improve and then I would be blown away by a system costing 10x that much. So yes, I can see how chasing the perfect sound is a never ending goal.

    Maximizing is a never ending process, satisficing is the route I go more and more as I age. Good enough is good enough.



    And good enough can be GREAT!


    Re chasing sound systems with one's wallet: At some point, wouldn't it just be cheaper to book the act live into one's living room?
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Oh, I have no doubt. But there's probably a lot of self-described audiophiles whose never-ending pursuit of the "perfect" sound makes it less about the music and more about the equipment.

    My system is no where near high end, and I've been adding stuff over the past year that's made it better, but there comes a point where i'll call it good enough. I've spent more on cables the last year than I ever imagined I would, and it's still a paltry sum compared to what some will spend. But they've made a difference. I'm sure there are better more expensive cables out there that will improve the sound even more. I just don't care to dive into that rabbit hole. Nor can I justify spending that kind of coin.
    Tweaks. I will throw this out and I really don't intend to start an audio war but let me just mention: fuses. I swear the tweak that had the most impact was replacing all the 5 cent fuses in the amp and preamp with high grade audiophile ones. From just a logic perspective, you have spent all this money on power cords, cables, power conditioner and high end gear to just run all that juice through a cheap piece of crap, pot metal wire fuse. Start with the main power supply fuse for the amp and see what a difference it makes.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleherder View Post
    Tweaks. I will throw this out and I really don't intend to start an audio war but let me just mention: fuses. I swear the tweak that had the most impact was replacing all the 5 cent fuses in the amp and preamp with high grade audiophile ones. From just a logic perspective, you have spent all this money on power cords, cables, power conditioner and high end gear to just run all that juice through a cheap piece of crap, pot metal wire fuse. Start with the main power supply fuse for the amp and see what a difference it makes.
    It does make audiophile sense. After all, as you say, the new frontier for audiophiles is to have the cleanest, most wonderful AC you can muster. Fuses are part of that pathway. Will they be flower petals? Or doggie doo?
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcb View Post
    I'm sure that's true and with if we switch out a few words here and there we could probably describe the same thing going on in the cycling world.
    I was gonna add something about not needing a $10,000 bike either, but I decided to leave it out. But yeah, the two worlds are quite similar.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    [Keoki] probably has a close and play

    I've got a Harmon Kardon T-35, often referred to as the poor man's Linn Sondek, with an Audio Technica AT440mla. While it doesn't blow my CDs away, I do prefer the sound.
    With respect, pretty much every turntable with pretensions to quality back in the day tried to pin the "poor man's Linn Sondek" label on themselves, or fans of said 'tables did. Most of the time, it wasn't justified.

    IIRC, the only 'table for which the name really stuck was the Rega Planar 3*, and for good reason. Sonically very good for the money, nice to look at, and the thing's still in production after 40 years. In fact, it just recently got a re-design.

    Though it's a very good 'table, it should be noted that the "poor man's whatever" term doesn't mean the same thing in turntables as it does with many other things... there is no "80% of the performance for one-quarter the price" here (unless the "rich man's" 'table is a pretty sucky one). If the rest of your system is good enough, the Linn Sondek is in a very different league than even a really good $1000 'table like the Rega. High-end audio tends to be cruel that way.

    But, it's really nice that vinyl is making a comeback, and that quality turntables/tonearms/cartridges are widely-coveted items once again.

    *(I woulda voted for the Dunlop Systemdek IIX for the "poor man's" title back in the day, and maybe the Sota Comet or Clearaudio Concept nowadays, with the Rega second or third, but that's me).

    A Rega Planar 3, btw, for those who've haven't seen one:
    Last edited by SystemShock; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:13 PM.
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  23. #48
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    My wife suffered audiophilia for a time and bought a Linn Sondek with a Basik arm. The first moment she was away, I grabbed the thing (carefully of course!) and plugged it into my system next to my then fairly new Sota Sapphire. A turntable test! What the hell was that arm again?

    A few apples-oranges differences notwithstanding, I found the two turntables to have separate but near equal strengths. The Linn had the edge in speed stability, something that made pianos and strings seem better in tune. The Linn, though, suffered from that infamous mid-bass bump that, though it gave the sound more punch, made everything seem slightly midrangey and out of tonal balance. Still extremely inviting, however.

    The Sota, meantime, was no slouch at speed stability, either. It gave a deeper, more spacious image. Perhaps the image was less tactile but it was more convincing. Bass went down another octave.

    I decided to stick with the Sota. Twenty-something years on, we both still have the tables, mine updated along the way with new springs, new bearing, new arms, and various cartridges and cables...as befitting my continuing case of audio nervosa.
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Re chasing sound systems with one's wallet: At some point, wouldn't it just be cheaper to book the act live into one's living room?
    Would you really want Kanye West in your house?
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I was gonna add something about not needing a $10,000 bike either, but I decided to leave it out. But yeah, the two worlds are quite similar.
    True dat. But on the plus side for bikes, it's pretty hard to spend much more than around $25K or so on one, unless you're just aggressively trying to empty your wallet.

    With audio nowadays, you can spend many times that.
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


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