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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDaddio View Post
    You may want to check out Talk Bass as I've seen a few listed on there lately.


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  2. #52
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    arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
    Don't forget one of these

    that's what SS state guys use for grit BLECHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    just drive 3 - 4 12AX7s into all their glory

    there's a couple companies that make tube driven stomp boxes
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  3. #53
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    BB King

    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    They are heavy (but so's my Yamaha, really), and a PITA, which is why I never cared to use them. When I played out, it was nice to not have to worry about reliability issues if the amp got kicked or dropped or abused somehow.. I've played good and bad tube amps, liked some, I've played good and bad SS, liked some, and I've heard wonderful players using both. Maybe I'm not discriminating (what's a "plate volt"?), but it's what my ears hear.

    Lots of riders buy carbon fiber bikes, too, but it doesn't make them better riders. I understand BB King plays a solid-state set-up, a LAB L5, though to be fair, he's also been seen with a Fender Twin, and you know those blues guys are all about tone. Jeff Beck and The Edge run through old Vox, but also use those Roland 120s as well, as do a lot of the jazz musicians.

    Some likes these, some likes those. I've always managed to get what sound I wanted from various rigs, running through processors, whatever. I think that a lot of players fret ()too much over equipment and rigs as a substitute for worrying about the important stuff, sort of like bike riders who debate the merits of tubulars when they'll never ride their bikes more than 15 MPH. Just MHO (and not referencing anyone in particular, FTR.) YMMV.

    I think it's really a Shimano v. Campy-type of debate, or maybe a mtb. v. road debate; it probably depends on what one likes, is willing to trade off in inconvenience, and what kind of sounds one's looking for.
    wouldn't really be known for his tone. He's known for his left hand vibrato.
    The AC30 is a tube amp. The Edge uses mostly, typically about 5 of them through a variety of processors. His 'tone' is more reliant on his effects but the AC30s give him a lovely ring.
    Beck hasn't used an AC30 since the Yardbirds. He's a Marshall guy, typically the slightly less distorted
    Vintage JTM45 that he slaves into other Marshall Heads. I've also seen him use a plexi every now and then, even one with the old lettering. No way you are going to get that tone out of a transistor.

    Plate volts, the tone on a tube amp never gets squeezed down to 12 volts to run through a silicon chip.
    You can emulate (again 12 volt), you can use effects, it never matches the breathe of a tube amp. You don't need a stomp box to get your amp to overdrive, you just increase the gain on the pre amp tubes. There's a whole frigging market of stomp boxes 'that will give you the tube sound' , when they don't, and why fake it when you can get it for real? But if you had to, Boogie has one with 2 12 AX7s
    http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_In...in/v-twin.html,
    Ibanez makes the tube king.
    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampli...FaYZQgodrk9Cjg

    But then you'd still lack the creamy clipping of EL34 or 6L6 Power tubes

    If I was doing Jazz I'd have a Polytone or JC 120. If all you are looking for is simple clean tone, I still prefer the bell like overtones of a clean tube amp.
    I've never regretted selling my JC, I have regretted selling my Tweed and Tan Bandmaster Reverb and have shed a tear over the 50 Watt Plexi I sold. Don't really see it as Campy and Shimano. Because a Solid State company can't pay guitar players enough dough to dump their tube amps.

    and FTR I have played through Dumbles and Demeters as well. DREAMY

    speaking of tube glory and Jeff Beck, no way you'd ever get SS to sound like this


    http://youtu.be/9Ej3BdMpgZw
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    wouldn't really be known for his tone. He's known for his left hand vibrato.
    The AC30 is a tube amp. The Edge uses mostly, typically about 5 of them through a variety of processors. His 'tone' is more reliant on his effects but the AC30s give him a lovely ring.
    Beck hasn't used an AC30 since the Yardbirds. He's a Marshall guy, typically the slightly less distorted
    Vintage JTM45 that he slaves into other Marshall Heads. I've also seen him use a plexi every now and then, even one with the old lettering. No way you are going to get that tone out of a transistor.

    Plate volts, the tone on a tube amp never gets squeezed down to 12 volts to run through a silicon chip.
    You can emulate (again 12 volt), you can use effects, it never matches the breathe of a tube amp. You don't need a stomp box to get your amp to overdrive, you just increase the gain on the pre amp tubes. There's a whole frigging market of stomp boxes 'that will give you the tube sound' , when they don't, and why fake it when you can get it for real? But if you had to, Boogie has one with 2 12 AX7s
    Mesa Boogie V-Twin Pedals,
    Ibanez makes the tube king.
    Ibanez TK999HT Tube King High Voltage Tube Distortion Guitar Pedal | Musician's Friend

    But then you'd still lack the creamy clipping of EL34 or 6L6 Power tubes

    If I was doing Jazz I'd have a Polytone or JC 120. If all you are looking for is simple clean tone, I still prefer the bell like overtones of a clean tube amp.
    I've never regretted selling my JC, I have regretted selling my Tweed and Tan Bandmaster Reverb and have shed a tear over the 50 Watt Plexi I sold. Don't really see it as Campy and Shimano. Because a Solid State company can't pay guitar players enough dough to dump their tube amps.

    and FTR I have played through Dumbles and Demeters as well. DREAMY

    speaking of tube glory and Jeff Beck, no way you'd ever get SS to sound like this


    Jeff Beck - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat / Brush With the Blues - YouTube
    You're just lucky BB can't come over there and kick your azz for dissing on his tone.

    And I'm sorry, but I'm not smart enough about EE to understand what you said about plate volts.

    My point is just that the "best" amp is what works for you, like with bikes.

    I have both types of amps. These days they mostly collect dust while I play acoustic, and in that respect, I've noticed both collect it equally well.

    Now, we simply have to stop this discussion, because I've got a bunch of tax refund money in my hand that my spouse wants to use to pay bills, and all this reading about dream rigs has me thinking dark thoughts about risking divorce by blowing it all at Guitar Center today.

  5. #55
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    and for the record

    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    You're just lucky BB can't come over there and kick your azz for dissing on his tone.

    And I'm sorry, but I'm not smart enough about EE to understand what you said about plate volts.

    My point is just that the "best" amp is what works for you, like with bikes.

    I have both types of amps. These days they mostly collect dust while I play acoustic, and in that respect, I've noticed both collect it equally well.

    Now, we simply have to stop this discussion, because I've got a bunch of tax refund money in my hand that my spouse wants to use to pay bills, and all this reading about dream rigs has me thinking dark thoughts about risking divorce by blowing it all at Guitar Center today.
    I did 240 plus gigs a year using a system with 4 12 AX7 pre amp tubes, 2 more 12 AX7s at the input end of my power amp and 8 6L6 power tubes for over 4 years without a failure. I did carry an entire set of tubes as back up just in case. My power amp was simul class 2 x 90 watts typically ran @ half power (45 watts) each powering 2 12" speakers ( 1 Celestion 1 EV) in stereo.

    I too had one of those SS Yamahas back in the 70s. Sold it when I got my Marshall
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    I did 240 plus gigs a year using a system with 4 12 AX7 pre amp tubes, 2 more 12 AX7s at the input end of my power amp and 8 6L6 power tubes for over 4 years without a failure. I did carry an entire set of tubes as back up just in case. My power amp was simul class 2 x 90 watts typically ran @ half power (45 watts) each powering 2 12" speakers ( 1 Celestion 1 EV) in stereo.

    I too had one of those SS Yamahas back in the 70s. Sold it when I got my Marshall

    Does Marshall make good amps?

  7. #57
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    yes but IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Does Marshall make good amps?
    Boogie makes better

    oh and there's a reason all your high dollar audiophile stereo stuff is tube
    Last edited by atpjunkie; 04-14-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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  8. #58
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    here's what I played through back in the day. I had the Yamaha but my band mates thought I sounded better through this:

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  9. #59
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    I settled on this, a Carr Rambler 2x10. It's clean, clean, CLEAN.


  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    Boogie makes better

    oh and there's a reason all your high dollar audiophile stereo stuff is tube


    Lemme try this again, atp:

    Does Marshall [Trek] make good amps [bikes]?

    Marshall make one that goes past 11, all the way to 20, so it's twice as good as most amps.

    All that high-dollar audiophile stereo stuff doesn't gig out too much, does it? There's a reason that recording studios have solid state stuff; not every musician wants tube distortion (aka "warmth.) Not knocking it, but it gets back to my point about how some likes these, some likes those.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    Boogie makes better

    oh and there's a reason all your high dollar audiophile stereo stuff is tube
    Not only are tube stereos coming back, but vinyl records have outsold CD's in Europe and England, meanwhile here in the US vinyl sales have rocketed to 39% from just averaging 1 million sales a year from 1993 to 2007 to 1.9 million in 08, 2.5 in 09, 2.8 in 10 and 3.9 million sold in 2011! We're beginning to pay attention to what music is suppose to sound like.

    There are also some great tube integrated amps and tube CD players coming out of China like the Yagin MC100b with 65 watts per channel. Keep in mind 65 watts of tube power is nothing like 65 watts of power out of today's Best Buy stores. These Yagin's sell for about $700, see: YAQIN MC 100B PushPull Stereo Integrated Tube Amplifier | eBay Then you'll need to buy a phono preamp, and probably the best one for the money on the lower scale is the Musical Fidelity V-LPS MKII which will cost just under $200. Then you may also want a tuner like the Teac TR-680RS Tuner for under $250.

    Be careful when buying Chinese tube amps and cd players, reviewers are swapping tubes to fine the "sweet" tube set and most go back to the original spec'd tubes from the factory...except for the Yagin CD player, it appears that by pulling the pair of 6N8P's tubes and replacing them with 6SN7GTB tubes there was a noticeable improvement in the midrange. But don't take my word on this I don't have one of those CD players; my cheap Marantz CD5003 player sounds just fine being put through the MacIntosh MC275 Tube Amp powering the mids and highs and the HK 2400 Amp elec amp powering the base speakers.

    I've heard some say you can over tube stuff, meaning there's no advantage having a tube CD player being put through a tube amp...not sure if that's right or not.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    Not only are tube stereos coming back, but vinyl records have outsold CD's in Europe and England, meanwhile here in the US vinyl sales have rocketed to 39% from just averaging 1 million sales a year from 1993 to 2007 to 1.9 million in 08, 2.5 in 09, 2.8 in 10 and 3.9 million sold in 2011! We're beginning to pay attention to what music is suppose to sound like.

    There are also some great tube integrated amps and tube CD players coming out of China like the Yagin MC100b with 65 watts per channel. Keep in mind 65 watts of tube power is nothing like 65 watts of power out of today's Best Buy stores. These Yagin's sell for about $700, see: YAQIN MC 100B PushPull Stereo Integrated Tube Amplifier | eBay Then you'll need to buy a phono preamp, and probably the best one for the money on the lower scale is the Musical Fidelity V-LPS MKII which will cost just under $200. Then you may also want a tuner like the Teac TR-680RS Tuner for under $250.

    Be careful when buying Chinese tube amps and cd players, reviewers are swapping tubes to fine the "sweet" tube set and most go back to the original spec'd tubes from the factory...except for the Yagin CD player, it appears that by pulling the pair of 6N8P's tubes and replacing them with 6SN7GTB tubes there was a noticeable improvement in the midrange. But don't take my word on this I don't have one of those CD players; my cheap Marantz CD5003 player sounds just fine being put through the MacIntosh MC275 Tube Amp powering the mids and highs and the HK 2400 Amp elec amp powering the base speakers.

    I've heard some say you can over tube stuff, meaning there's no advantage having a tube CD player being put through a tube amp...not sure if that's right or not.

    There was a very ear-opening story that NPR ran on "Science Friday" not too long ago, where they compared vinyl, CD, and MP formats, with a panel of audio engineers. If you care to dig it up, it's pretty interesting.

    FWIW, vinyl sales growth but not total sales, have outpaced other formats. It's still a niche market, though.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    There was a very ear-opening story that NPR ran on "Science Friday" not too long ago, where they compared vinyl, CD, and MP formats, with a panel of audio engineers. If you care to dig it up, it's pretty interesting.

    FWIW, vinyl sales growth but not total sales, have outpaced other formats. It's still a niche market, though.
    I read an article about 3 months ago saying that vinyl in either Europe or Great Britain had out sold CD's, I could be wrong in my remembrance of the article and I tried to find it but I couldn't.

    I did find a site that stated that ine Europe CD sales are down 18% in 2009 and vinyl was up 300% during that same period, and the trend has continued to this year. Amazon has reported similar surges in vinyl, and Amazon reports too that high quality music blank cassettes have surged 110%! I just learned that today.

  14. #64
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    I used to manage the John Suhr amp shop so I may be able to speak into this.

    Since you've never played electric, I wouldn't go too big or pricy. As others have said; tube amps are the way to go.

    For my money for a beginner I would pick up the Blackheart amp Blackheart BH5H and BH112 Half Stack | Musician's Friend

    It's based on the popular Epiphone Valve Junior circuit only with a tone stack (tone controls). I've played with this circuit and come up with some cool mods but the stock setup is great for playing at home and presents a nice neutral palette for effects pedals and ODs.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    I read an article about 3 months ago saying that vinyl in either Europe or Great Britain had out sold CD's, I could be wrong in my remembrance of the article and I tried to find it but I couldn't.

    I did find a site that stated that ine Europe CD sales are down 18% in 2009 and vinyl was up 300% during that same period, and the trend has continued to this year. Amazon has reported similar surges in vinyl, and Amazon reports too that high quality music blank cassettes have surged 110%! I just learned that today.
    This tidbit only covers the US, but I can't see where European sales would be markedly different:

    "The evidence of vinyl’s comeback is much more than anecdotal. The last three years have each set successive records for vinyl sales in the CD era. In 2010, 2.8 million LPs were sold, up 14% from 2009–and more than any other year since Nielsen SoundScan began tracking sales in 1991. Vinyl sales now account for 1% of all album sales in the U.S., compared to 26% for legal digital downloads; CDs make up the rest."

    Vinyl vs. CDs: The Tables Are Turning - Forbes

    Sales of vinyl have definitely shown a faster growth rate, but that's a function of nowhere to go but up, I think, given the dominance of modern formats.

    Here's that NPR broadcast I mentioned; I found it very interesting:

    Science Friday Archives: Why Vinyl Sounds Better Than CD, Or Not

  16. #66
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    If you're not used to playing electric, through a tube amp, I wouldn't go crazy. The amp Locusfist mentioned is a great setup if you want to wet your tastebuds with tubes.

    If you get more serious, I would look towards a single ended amp. More responsive to me at low volumes (which you will use at home), and usually not in the 30+ watt range, which is really unusable at home.

    I love my early 60's Ampeg Jet, and would love to have a couple of the earlier fenders, or even a clone. A clone of a Fender 5E3 deluxe would be the amp for me if I had a 335 or the like, especially with a decent Weber speaker.
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  17. #67
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    you clearly haven't spent much time in many studios

    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Lemme try this again, atp:

    Does Marshall [Trek] make good amps [bikes]?

    Marshall make one that goes past 11, all the way to 20, so it's twice as good as most amps.

    All that high-dollar audiophile stereo stuff doesn't gig out too much, does it? There's a reason that recording studios have solid state stuff; not every musician wants tube distortion (aka "warmth.) Not knocking it, but it gets back to my point about how some likes these, some likes those.
    or you'd realize how many tube mics, tube pre amps and tube compressors they still employ
    Most vocal tracks are still recorded on tube condenser mics

    but that misses the point, the point being, the people that really care about sound, that invest large portions on their audio, that consider themselves connoisseurs of sound use tube gear, not for it's distortion but for its warmth and clarity. That despite all the technological breakthroughs in audio people who care use 'antiquated' technology.
    If there was no real quality difference this stuff would have died out, what explains its survival?
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  18. #68
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    indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by froze View Post
    I read an article about 3 months ago saying that vinyl in either Europe or Great Britain had out sold CD's, I could be wrong in my remembrance of the article and I tried to find it but I couldn't.

    I did find a site that stated that ine Europe CD sales are down 18% in 2009 and vinyl was up 300% during that same period, and the trend has continued to this year. Amazon has reported similar surges in vinyl, and Amazon reports too that high quality music blank cassettes have surged 110%! I just learned that today.
    and a good thing, otherwise in another 30 years and people will think the crap mp3 they are listening to is HiFi. I have a buddy who collects old gear and I saw/heard nothing finer than allowing his teenage son to drop the new Muse record on the turntable and then the kids expression when he heard what music is supposed to sound like.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    or you'd realize how many tube mics, tube pre amps and tube compressors they still employ
    Most vocal tracks are still recorded on tube condenser mics

    but that misses the point, the point being, the people that really care about sound, that invest large portions on their audio, that consider themselves connoisseurs of sound use tube gear, not for it's distortion but for its warmth and clarity. That despite all the technological breakthroughs in audio people who care use 'antiquated' technology.
    If there was no real quality difference this stuff would have died out, what explains its survival?
    Clearly. Because you won't find any solid-state stuff in recording studios, or in professional music. Of course.

    Might want to listen to that NPR podcast, btw.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    and a good thing, otherwise in another 30 years and people will think the crap mp3 they are listening to is HiFi. I have a buddy who collects old gear and I saw/heard nothing finer than allowing his teenage son to drop the new Muse record on the turntable and then the kids expression when he heard what music is supposed to sound like.
    Funny you mentioned that, I did something similar with my youngest and oldest daughter. I put a record on (Robin Trowler), neither knew I had the turntable on, and both asked what CD that was! So then I popped in CD of Robin Trowler and A/B the two for all us to hear, and we all though the record sounded better, especially the higher range notes, and the guitar had more tone to it, and other nuances.

    And I can't stand the sound of MP3 recorded stuff, their suppose to have similar sampling rates as CD's but they don't sound similar at all. I would much rather listen to CD's then MP3's, but I prefer vinyl over CD's. I wish I had known that when I threw away dozens of records back in the late 80's to switch over to CD's!

  21. #71
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    I've been out of the guitar amplifier game for quite a while. For all I know, today's tranny guitar amps sound just fine, with every bit of the dynamics and tonal bloom that define the tube sound.

    Comparing musical instrument gear with audio reproducing gear, however, can only take you so far. A guitar amplifier is an important component in determining the kind of sound you are looking for. The amp is a musical instrument in itself. You want it to change the sound. You want it to have a personality. In home audio, the components (from recording process through the playback process) are ideally meant to be invisible -- to accurately reflect whatever it is that was originally played in front of the microphones.
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    I've been out of the guitar amplifier game for quite a while. For all I know, today's tranny guitar amps sound just fine, with every bit of the dynamics and tonal bloom that define the tube sound.

    Comparing musical instrument gear with audio reproducing gear, however, can only take you so far. A guitar amplifier is an important component in determining the kind of sound you are looking for. The amp is a musical instrument in itself. You want it to change the sound. You want it to have a personality. In home audio, the components (from recording process through the playback process) are ideally meant to be invisible -- to accurately reflect whatever it is that was originally played in front of the microphones.
    There's an interesting turn of phrase in that NPR podcast on the merits of different formats, where an engineer (after saying he prefers CDs to vinyl) says he wouldn't recommend a format, much as he "would never tell an artist not to paint on canvas because he thinks paper looks better." I like this way of thinking.

    Re the tube vs. SS debate, it's really a non-starter for me. Some artists want the tube sound, some don't. Use what you like, is my advice.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by superjesus View Post
    I'm trying to talk myself into a Streamliner 900,

    I put one of my basses up on TB to try and fund a 9.2 purchase and I was just tempted with a MM Stingray (a bass I've lusted after for ages) and a Fender Bassman Pro 300.

    The stingray deal is a maybe, we're still working on it, but the dude with the Bassman seems eager to get his hands on a new, interesting bass (i put up an ASAT with a tremolo).

    The Bassman 300 is the antithesis of what I was looking for in the GB 9.2 but, holy crap... it's a Bassman 300!

    What's a guy to do?!


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    Easy. ..

    For playing around the house a Blackstar HT 1R is fantastic!! A great valve amp.

  25. #75
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    Fender dual showman coupled with an echoplex is the way to go for any gretsch guitar if you want to make it shine.

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