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  1. #1
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    Was she guilty of texting her boyfriend to death??

    Judge finds Michelle Carter guilty of manslaughter in texting suicide case - CNN.com

    Seriously yo, it was a case involving 2 teens who were both depressed and taking psychotic medications at the time. And anyone who has ever lived thru the teenage years will know that this is when we tend to do and say stupid things while we're "normal". Now mix in depression and medication you have trouble.

    My question is, where were the boy's parents in all this? He obviously had a suicidal tenacity beforehand, why didn't the parents get him help?

    So if I give some guy a bicycle and urge him to ride over a cliff and he did and killed himself, am I guilty for his behavior and/or stupidity?

  2. #2
    pmf
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    Beyond ridiculous.

    It'll be interesting to see what the sentence is. She was tried as a juvenile even though she isn't at this time. Hopefully she gets a very light sentence. Still, with a felony on her record, her future is screwed.

  3. #3
    tlg
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    But it was more than just texting him to kill himself.

    She encouraged him to get back in the truck to finish killing himself. And she was listening on the phone as he was dying and did nothing. She could have stopped it or at the least called 911.

    So if I give some guy a bicycle and urge him to ride over a cliff and he did and killed himself, am I guilty for his behavior and/or stupidity?
    If he rode over the cliff but was still alive and then you did nothing while watching him die... yea you'd be guilty.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    So if I give some guy a bicycle and urge him to ride over a cliff and he did and killed himself, am I guilty for his behavior and/or stupidity?
    If you knew that guy had a disease that made your expected expected result him actually doing it and it wouldn't have happened but for you, yeah, you'd be guilty of the same thing.

    I'm definitely no legal expert but initiating something you know will end in death sounds like a pretty clear cut case to me.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 06-16-2017 at 09:33 AM.

  5. #5
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    I wonder how the boy's parents feel in all this?
    Are they feeling vindicated that the girl gets to go to jail?
    Or are they feeling guilty because they did a shitty taking care of their kid?

    It would not surprise me if his parents felt vindicated for their own lack of parental responsibility. Ridiculous

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    If you knew that guy had a disease that made your expected expected result him actually doing it and it wouldn't have happened but for you, yeah, you'd be guilty of the same thing.

    I'm definitely no legal expert but initiating something you know will end in death sounds like a pretty clear cut case to me.
    Dude you ever seen those extreme Red Bulls videos on mtb freeride or motox stunts? That's like asking young me to risk their lives, and yes a few have died doing it. All for some money. And one can argue that the enticement of money can also be used as device to entice a person to his death.

    The boy knew he was about to kill himself if he inhaled the carbon monoxide. He was intelligent enough to know. He was intelligent to get the f* out of the truck, but then he was dumb enough to get back in. That's just self mutilating. He ain't a mentally retarded person, in which case it would be be more clear cut.

  7. #7
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Dude you ever seen those extreme Red Bulls videos on mtb freeride or motox stunts? That's like asking young me to risk their lives, and yes a few have died doing it. All for some money. And one can argue that the enticement of money can also be used as device to entice a person to his death.
    One could argue that, but they'd be wrong. The purpose of those stunts isn't to KILL themselves.

    And again.... if someone were injured doing one of those stunts, and then people sat and watched them die, they'd be guilty. Odd, you keep skipping over that part.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Dude you ever seen those extreme Red Bulls videos on mtb freeride or motox stunts? That's like asking young me to risk their lives, and yes a few have died doing it. All for some money. And one can argue that the enticement of money can also be used as device to entice a person to his death.

    The boy knew he was about to kill himself if he inhaled the carbon monoxide. He was intelligent enough to know. He was intelligent to get the f* out of the truck, but then he was dumb enough to get back in. That's just self mutilating. He ain't a mentally retarded person, in which case it would be be more clear cut.
    No I haven't seen those videos.

    Intelligence and dumb have nothing to do with the disease of depression. I'm certainly no expert on depression either but your understanding is about 100 years behind. Facilitating action where the expected result is death due to a disease sounds wrong to me. Not you apparently.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 06-16-2017 at 09:54 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Dude you ever seen those extreme Red Bulls videos on mtb freeride or motox stunts? That's like asking young me to risk their lives, and yes a few have died doing it. All for some money. And one can argue that the enticement of money can also be used as device to entice a person to his death.

    The boy knew he was about to kill himself if he inhaled the carbon monoxide. He was intelligent enough to know. He was intelligent to get the f* out of the truck, but then he was dumb enough to get back in. That's just self mutilating. He ain't a mentally retarded person, in which case it would be be more clear cut.

    This has nothing to do with what happened in this case.

    Encouraging someone (by paying them) to do a stunt, regardless of how dangerous it is, is a LOT different than encouraging a depressed person to kill themselves, and giving them the specific procedures to do it.

  10. #10
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    What she did was deplorable, but it wasn't murder.

  11. #11
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    What she did was deplorable, but it wasn't murder.
    No, it was manslaughter.
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  12. #12
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    so while the judge blasted the girl, who herself was taking psychotic related medication, for the act, I feel the root of this problem for the boy started way earlier and back at home with the parents. If the kid was retarted, that's different. From what I can see, he was just a regular teenager, who was probably negleted by his parents, and turned depresses and probably took some drugs, and met an equally depressed g/f who goad him on to suicide. The guy voluntarily knew he was killing himself. He was cognitive of this fact, was he not? Time to man up and stop the pussified bucking kicking.

  13. #13
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    From what I can see, he was just a regular teenager, who was probably negleted by his parents, and turned depresses and probably took some drugs, and met an equally depressed g/f who goad him on to suicide.
    And... yet again... you leave out the part where she sat there and did nothing while he was dying.
    So odd.

    You obviously have little experience in depression, drugs, and suicide.
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  14. #14
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    What she did was reprehensible, but not murder, of which manslaughter is a version.

    "The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection."

    She had no hand in the physical act that resulted in the boys death, thus I am just not seeing how they can find her guilty of this.

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    Would he have killed himself had she not encouraged him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
    What she did was reprehensible, but not murder, of which manslaughter is a version.

    "The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection."

    She had no hand in the physical act that resulted in the boys death, thus I am just not seeing how they can find her guilty of this.
    you might want to look at the definition you posted a little closer, because it says nothing about physical. But it does say "without due caution and circumspection". You think egging on a depressed person to kill them self exhibits caution and circumspection?

  17. #17
    LWP
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Dude you ever seen those extreme Red Bulls videos on mtb freeride or motox stunts? That's like asking young me to risk their lives, and yes a few have died doing it. All for some money. And one can argue that the enticement of money can also be used as device to entice a person to his death.
    I'm not getting into the argument regarding whether or not the girl should have been found guilty but that example is not even close to applying in this situation. The people getting paid to do those stunts are already doing those stunts. They've been doing them for a long time without getting paid while they tried to get good enough to get paid. They're not enticed (at least, no more than any of us are enticed to do our job by the money we receive for doing it), it's their chosen career path. They know the inherent risk attached to their chosen career and decided their skill level is such that the risk is outweighed by the reward.
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  18. #18
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    Similar to, can a gang leader who orders a rival killed, be tried for murder ?, don't know.

    I do think that a definition of killing, typically might require physical involvement by the so called killer. I've no clue as to case law on this.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
    Similar to, can a gang leader who orders a rival killed, be tried for murder ?, don't know.

    I do think that a definition of killing, typically might require physical involvement by the so called killer. I've no clue as to case law on this.
    If you are just the getaway driver in a robbery and your partner kills the victim, you will be tried for murder too.
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  20. #20
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    read the transcripts. She was encouraging him to di it. He was apologizing to her for not doing it already. She talked him back into gassing himself, was in communique with him while he was dying and didn't call for someone to help or stop him.
    When your actions are directly responsible for someones death, manslaughter is what they give you.
    The kid got out of the car, he had second thoughts. He returned to his death on her advice. That was the crux of the conviction
    She got what she deserved.
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  21. #21
    LWP
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    So I guess my question is, is it illegal to not interfere with someone who is attempting to kill their self? Morals aside, just in regards to the law, if I see someone getting ready to jump off of a bridge in an obvious attempt to die and stand there and watch without trying to prevent it, can I be guilty of manslaughter? And what if we add in me shouting "Jump!" if I see they're hesitating? It's not the sort of thing I would ever do, I'm just curious where the law stands on it. I don't in any way approve of what the girl did, it just feels like pushing the boundaries of being directly responsible to me. If I hire a guy to kill someone, I'm absolutely directly responsible. If I just say "you should kill someone" and he does, I don't feel like I should be considered directly responsible.
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  22. #22
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
    Similar to, can a gang leader who orders a rival killed, be tried for murder ?, don't know.

    I do think that a definition of killing, typically might require physical involvement by the so called killer. I've no clue as to case law on this.
    Google Charles Manson. He didn't have 'rivals' killed but otherwise it's a perfect example of what you're asking about.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    read the transcripts. She was encouraging him to di it. He was apologizing to her for not doing it already. She talked him back into gassing himself, was in communique with him while he was dying and didn't call for someone to help or stop him.
    When your actions are directly responsible for someones death, manslaughter is what they give you.
    The kid got out of the car, he had second thoughts. He returned to his death on her advice. That was the crux of the conviction
    She got what she deserved.
    I'll admit when I first heard the ruling (sans any details-thanks local news for sucking at journalism) I said WTF. And then I saw the details.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWP View Post
    So I guess my question is, is it illegal to not interfere with someone who is attempting to kill their self? Morals aside, just in regards to the law, if I see someone getting ready to jump off of a bridge in an obvious attempt to die and stand there and watch without trying to prevent it, can I be guilty of manslaughter? And what if we add in me shouting "Jump!" if I see they're hesitating? It's not the sort of thing I would ever do, I'm just curious where the law stands on it. I don't in any way approve of what the girl did, it just feels like pushing the boundaries of being directly responsible to me. If I hire a guy to kill someone, I'm absolutely directly responsible. If I just say "you should kill someone" and he does, I don't feel like I should be considered directly responsible.

    This should be covered by good Samaritan laws I would think, especially if it would be a risk for you to try and help someone. In your example of a bridge jumper you would consider the person harming you if you tried to stop them, or even worse over-powering you and taking you with them. Especially if you do not have the training. People have died trying to save drowning victims for example, and the first thing you are taught in basic first aid is make sure the scene is safe.

    This young lady did a horrible thing, and apparently they decided she was cognizant enough despite her own issues to encourage him to kill himself.
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