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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Zebra mussels: the USACE and NTMWD is about to pump 'em all over Texas

    If they haven't started already. (A little bit of local angle on the upcoming water wars. Texas will be a big battleground.)

    Backstory: since Texas has been in a drought for a few years now, lake levels are down. My city gets water from 3 reservoirs - Texoma, Lavon, and Cooper. Of those, Lavon and Cooper are way low right now, and we've been on stage 3 water rationing for a while.

    Texoma, filled by the Red River and much larger / deeper than the other two, has held up better. But. It has zebra mussels. For now, none of the other lakes are infected, and Texoma has been quarantined.

    But, residents complain about their lawns turning brown. So, our local officials, in their brilliance, have all but decided to pump water from Texoma to Lavon. And, of course, the zebra mussels will tag along.

    Lavon, fed by a branch of the Trinity River, feeds into Ray Hubbard (city of Dallas main water supply) and thence to a couple other important reservoirs downstream, and into the Gulf near Houston.

    So, in the interest of green lawns, the State of Texas is about to infect a major watershed, the drinking water source for literally millions of people, with a non-native species that puts the safety of the water supply at risk.

    Yay.

    Zebra Mussel Threat to Texas Lakes is Misunderestimated - Dallas News - Unfair Park
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
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  2. #2
    Just Plain Bitter
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    What is the short term forecast for rain? Is it really green lawns or is there more to it than that creaky? I don't like the idea of having any non native species introduced but if it is the only water supply they can pull from then I can see the quandary the guys that made the decision were put in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catzilla;
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  3. #3
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    It's a long-term drought... no great forecast in sight to refill the lakes. We'll see how the spring goes, but so far this winter has been drier than usual.

    I can't dig it up right now but there are stats on water usage, and yes, lawns are one of if not the biggest users around here. I understand the concern - property values, investments in landscaping lost, jobs lost by the landscape crews etc.

    I just think it's shortsighted to knowingly infect a whole new river system.
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
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  4. #4
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    The good news with Zebra mussels- holy crap do they clean the water.

    The bad news... well, they're zebra mussels. they get everywhere, they eat every microscopic piece of food in the water and kill off all the other filter feeders.

    But they do clean things up.

    If only they attacked carp I'd be OK with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTooBig View Post
    Your Logical-to-Dumbass ratio is way out of kilter, buddy

  5. #5
    Yo no fui.
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    So ... Texas can mess with Texas?
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotophage View Post
    The good news with Zebra mussels- holy crap do they clean the water.

    The bad news... well, they're zebra mussels. they get everywhere, they eat every microscopic piece of food in the water and kill off all the other filter feeders.

    But they do clean things up.

    If only they attacked carp I'd be OK with them.
    oopsie, too late I guess.

    Zebra mussels found at Lake Ray Hubbard | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth

    They also crash native fish populations, clog intake pipes for the water supply, and lead to algae blooms that render the water undrinkable.
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
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  7. #7
    Always changing.....
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    They have been hell to the back water lakes in Ontario. One of the worst invasive species evar.

  8. #8
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotophage View Post
    The good news with Zebra mussels- holy crap do they clean the water.

    The bad news... well, they're zebra mussels. they get everywhere, they eat every microscopic piece of food in the water and kill off all the other filter feeders.

    But they do clean things up.

    If only they attacked carp I'd be OK with them.
    Lake Champlain has some freekin incredible viz because of them. 100+ in some instances, and they didn;t really affect the wrecks as much as one would think
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    Lake Champlain has some freekin incredible viz because of them. 100+ in some instances, and they didn;t really affect the wrecks as much as one would think
    how's the fishing?
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  10. #10
    Fecal indicator
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    wth does 'misunderestimated' mean??
    eff all y'all...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    oopsie, too late I guess.

    Zebra mussels found at Lake Ray Hubbard | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth

    They also crash native fish populations, clog intake pipes for the water supply, and lead to algae blooms that render the water undrinkable.
    Yeah, that's the problem.

    Question is, do zebra mussels effectively balance the damage done by carp? because those f**kers have trashed our lakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTooBig View Post
    Your Logical-to-Dumbass ratio is way out of kilter, buddy

  12. #12
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    I like having a nice lawn, but I'd rather not water it than promote over-use of resources and contribute to the spread of invasive species. I'm still shocked that my North Texas suburb only recently went to "voluntary water restrictions" --- as in, "please don't use as much water". It's appalling all around.

    Do zebra mussels affect sport fishing? That'd be about the only thing that would cause anyone in this area to give a hoot.

    I just hope that later on no one gets the bright idea to add another invasive species to eat the zebra mussels.
    "If we're to be honest with ourselves, achieving the end of the exercise was never the point of the exercise, was it?"
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  13. #13
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    since this is the type of thing I deal with at the state, I shopped the issue around our staff a bit.

    in terms of concern to drinking water quality, the mussels are not associated with any known releases of biotoxins and are not covered by any regs of the Safe Drinking Water Act or Surface Water Treatment Rule.

    so, no action will be forthcoming from any of the work groups in the public drinking water section unless someone attempts to apply biocides or other chemical agents to kill the critters.

    as you know, Lake Lavon is under the control of the Army Corps of Engineers.

    their website has the following regarding the detection of this invasive species:

    U.S. Army Corps of Engineers - Invasive Species Information

    you can always send your concerns to them and/or your leg reps.
    eff all y'all...

  14. #14
    Yo no fui.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsleepingjon View Post
    I like having a nice lawn, but I'd rather not water it than promote over-use of resources and contribute to the spread of invasive species. I'm still shocked that my North Texas suburb only recently went to "voluntary water restrictions" --- as in, "please don't use as much water". It's appalling all around.
    I don't know the particulars of Texas water law, but depending on the legal regime, there are occasionally wrinkles that are not always apparent. For example, in Colorado, we have "direct flow" water rights under which water is diverted from the stream and placed to immediate use and "storage" water rights under which water is diverted from the stream, stored and later taken out of storage for use. This, for example, during a drought, if a city only has direct flow water rights, there is no direct benefit for conserving water (though there may be public relations and political benefits) because the water cannot be stored and the water not diverted is gone downstream. My point is simply that there is likely some rationale to the maddness.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

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  15. #15
    Mehpic
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    worse than kudzu.

    cant they "nuke" the water with microwaves when it gets transferred to sterilize the demon spawn?
    catzilla: I wish we were all a little more invincible.

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  16. #16
    Good news everyone!
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    Brilliant. It amazes me how little people actually care about where their water comes from or how much they consume. We are a parasite on this planet.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotophage View Post
    If only they attacked carp I'd be OK with them.
    WHAT? Carp are great- the most underappriciated fish to catch I know of. Seriously. Freshwater bonefish!
    We'll be back soon, there will be more of us, and next time we won't be dropping leaflets.

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  18. #18
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    Carp are non-native and they f**k up lakes pretty badly.
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTooBig View Post
    Your Logical-to-Dumbass ratio is way out of kilter, buddy

  19. #19
    still shedding season
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    Welcome to the new reality. I took this a couple of years ago near the north end of Lake Michigan, where they've taken over (not recently). This beach isn't made out of sand... All the way to the horizon. People are amazed and impressed by the clarity of the lake - a generation ago it was a cesspool and now you can see down 25' on a calm day. Sure, the Great Lakes have less pollution than they did then, but they also have less to support the creatures that live in the lake.

    The problem is that there isn't really any way to stop it once it hit the Lakes. It's really easy to transport, and that's how it spread. Just a matter of time - but pumping that water into other lakes... yikes.

    BTW - I sailed on Lake Ray Hubbard in the 80's. Had I known it was your drinking water source, I probably would have waited until I got back on land to pee. Maybe. Sorry. Maybe.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Zebra mussels: the USACE and NTMWD is about to pump 'em all over Texas-p1000843.jpg  

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kykr13 View Post
    Welcome to the new reality. I took this a couple of years ago near the north end of Lake Michigan, where they've taken over (not recently). This beach isn't made out of sand... All the way to the horizon. People are amazed and impressed by the clarity of the lake - a generation ago it was a cesspool and now you can see down 25' on a calm day. Sure, the Great Lakes have less pollution than they did then, but they also have less to support the creatures that live in the lake.

    The problem is that there isn't really any way to stop it once it hit the Lakes. It's really easy to transport, and that's how it spread. Just a matter of time - but pumping that water into other lakes... yikes.

    BTW - I sailed on Lake Ray Hubbard in the 80's. Had I known it was your drinking water source, I probably would have waited until I got back on land to pee. Maybe. Sorry. Maybe.
    Wow- that's scary.
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTooBig View Post
    Your Logical-to-Dumbass ratio is way out of kilter, buddy

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kykr13 View Post
    BTW - I sailed on Lake Ray Hubbard in the 80's. Had I known it was your drinking water source, I probably would have waited until I got back on land to pee. Maybe. Sorry. Maybe.
    Not mine... I live in the leafy burbs.

    Innergel gets his water from Hubbard, though, and he's a lot bigger and more ill-tempered than me.
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
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  22. #22
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    wow Creaky

    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    If they haven't started already. (A little bit of local angle on the upcoming water wars. Texas will be a big battleground.)

    Backstory: since Texas has been in a drought for a few years now, lake levels are down. My city gets water from 3 reservoirs - Texoma, Lavon, and Cooper. Of those, Lavon and Cooper are way low right now, and we've been on stage 3 water rationing for a while.

    Texoma, filled by the Red River and much larger / deeper than the other two, has held up better. But. It has zebra mussels. For now, none of the other lakes are infected, and Texoma has been quarantined.

    But, residents complain about their lawns turning brown. So, our local officials, in their brilliance, have all but decided to pump water from Texoma to Lavon. And, of course, the zebra mussels will tag along.

    Lavon, fed by a branch of the Trinity River, feeds into Ray Hubbard (city of Dallas main water supply) and thence to a couple other important reservoirs downstream, and into the Gulf near Houston.

    So, in the interest of green lawns, the State of Texas is about to infect a major watershed, the drinking water source for literally millions of people, with a non-native species that puts the safety of the water supply at risk.

    Yay.

    Zebra Mussel Threat to Texas Lakes is Misunderestimated - Dallas News - Unfair Park
    you sound like a tree hugger here. Come on man, people have a right to water their lawns in droughts.
    Environmental impact be damned.

    once again proving the old adage, everyone is a tree hugging liberal when the issue affects them directly


    sorry to hear Creaky
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    still not figgering on biggering

  23. #23
    Call me a Fred
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    I was under the impression that good, loyal Texans used oil to grow their grass.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    you sound like a tree hugger here. Come on man, people have a right to water their lawns in droughts.
    Environmental impact be damned.

    once again proving the old adage, everyone is a tree hugging liberal when the issue affects them directly


    sorry to hear Creaky
    I know you're teasing... but in all seriousness, you won't find many people who actually put more money behind environmental stewardship, than hunters, fishermen, and ranchers.

    It's one thing to live in a city and bemoan the somewhat abstract damage to natural environments (which, these lakes are not, btw), but quite another to make your living or feed your obsession from the land. Tends to sharpen the focus.
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
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  25. #25
    Zaphod Beeblebrox
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    people shouldn't move to the f*cking desert and expect to have a green lawn. Part of it is tied to lawn ordinances in a lot of municipalites from what I understand. The ordinance says you have to have grass.

    not sure what it's like in TX. I wanted to till up part of my lawn and plant it in wildflowers. I was told no.
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