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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Two interesting points:

    1 - 853 costs very close to Ti ~ so we do contrate on the Ti; but there might be a market for some 853

    2 - Heck Yes - Touring bikes I think should be steel; our Windsor Tourist & Moto Gran Turismo sell very weel; in fact we are always running out

    We have 3 different steel CX bikes in the works; which can do double duty as commuters. A lot of our current CX bikes in Aluminum & Ti are used for commuting & light touring; so it makes sense
    Mike,

    It would be a great bonus if you could also sell the frame individually.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymonda
    Actually, 853 is better served lugged. Brazing adds more heat, thus making the frame even stronger. TIG welding 853 became more popular because it was faster and cheaper to produce.

    853 is my favorite Reynolds tubing. A lugged frame of 853 would cost more but it sure would be sweet!

    I like this too
    but for sure as much or more than Ti
    and so the market maybe rather limited
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  3. #53
    sloping is for girls
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    I was thinking something like this;
    with Reynolds 725 and either Full Red or Full Ultegra
    or option of either -- with nice Mavic wheels

    That's a pretty sharp looking frame, but those components and especially the wheels look horrible with it. You should make the frame available to buy by itself.

  4. #54
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    Pretty disappointing.

    1. the paint looks cheap. With all the amazing black and red paint jobs in motobecane's history, you could at least try to give it something with some style.

    2. Why do you want anyone's opinion if you've already ordered the bike?

    3. Why would I get your frame when I could get an older frame, built of similar or better material for less?

    So, meh.

    Last time I fall for one of your advertising schemes, and I say that as someone who's been thinking about buying one of your MTBs pretty seriously.

    Think I'll go with Singular instead. Unclefuzzy sells them and doesn't shill them.

    If I ran the world, you'd get the banhammer for this crap.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck-50
    Pretty disappointing.

    1. the paint looks cheap. With all the amazing black and red paint jobs in motobecane's history, you could at least try to give it something with some style.

    2. Why do you want anyone's opinion if you've already ordered the bike?

    3. Why would I get your frame when I could get an older frame, built of similar or better material for less?

    So, meh.

    Last time I fall for one of your advertising schemes, and I say that as someone who's been thinking about buying one of your MTBs pretty seriously.

    Think I'll go with Singular instead. Unclefuzzy sells them and doesn't shill them.

    If I ran the world, you'd get the banhammer for this crap.

    I fell for it too........Funny you mention MTB...I was looking at them for single speed 29er....I'm looking elsewhere.... some things never change
    Dave Hickey/ Fort Worth

    My 3Rensho Blog: http://vintage3rensholove.blogspot.com/

  6. #56
    duh...
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck-50
    the banhammer


    ban or suspend... and the same for the entire motobecane board
    .


    Quote Originally Posted by mikagsd
    Fat tire Fred....you are the bike god of the universe and unless someone agrees with your reasoning they are just plain stupid

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    I like this too
    but for sure as much or more than Ti
    and so the market maybe rather limited
    How's the pricing on Nivacrom tubing? Zona? Just adding the Columbus or Reynolds name would give the frame added legitimacy.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Two interesting points:

    1 - 853 costs very close to Ti ~ so we do contrate on the Ti; but there might be a market for some 853

    2 - Heck Yes - Touring bikes I think should be steel; our Windsor Tourist & Moto Gran Turismo sell very weel; in fact we are always running out

    We have 3 different steel CX bikes in the works; which can do double duty as commuters. A lot of our current CX bikes in Aluminum & Ti are used for commuting & light touring; so it makes sense
    Sorry, I totally forgot about the Windsor and Moto.

  9. #59
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    First, what might be a good idea business-wise: 853 with a slightly larger downtube and bottom bracket for power transfer. Makes for a very light weight bike that defies the popular myths about heavy and flexy steel. I think a gently sloping top tube helps with fit.

    For a personal thought: I know I've said it before, but I'd love a 953 steel bike. Especially naked or part naked stainless. You also want something that looks nice, take designs from the '80's steel bikes with chromed lugs. Take a hop over to the retro-classic section and see what people truly love in bikes.
    You get a frameset available in 953 for what you said (in a PM) you could sell it for, and I will buy one from you next year. Pump pegs for full frame pumps rould rock too!
    As for forks, I prefer curved with steel, as they really maintain the look. Chrome or at least painted carbon, not naked.
    EDIT: Took a second look at the pic. Black wheels & stem = big no-no. The downtube and fork seem too thin on that for my tastes, but that's just me maybe.
    EDIT add too: Me too for making framesets available separately. Regardless of lugs or no, a lightweight option will be more popular than a heavier one, of course.
    I have a single track mind

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanya
    For a personal thought: I know I've said it before, but I'd love a 953 steel bike. Especially naked or part naked stainless. You also want something that looks nice, take designs from the '80's steel bikes with chromed lugs.
    I would love to see a 953 bike. There are no inexpensive ones on the market, you could sell that bike at three levels, similiar to your ti bike. Imagine choosing b/n a 953 or ti with rival for 1600 bucks

  11. #61
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    I've been riding a lugged Waterford Reynolds 953 bike for three years and absolutely love it, but just the tubeset costs the framebuilder close to $600, and that's not counting the BB shell, lugs, dropouts, or labor. When you add the wear and tear on tooling it's hard for me to imagine a lugged 953 bike with Rival for anywhere close to $1600, even if the labor costs next to nothing.
    -Stan
    my bikes

  12. #62
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    Yeah, y'know... this advertising/shill thread really should be moved to the Motobecane forum. Like everyone else, I fell for it too.

    Mods?

    .
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  13. #63
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    "I've been riding a lugged Waterford Reynolds 953 bike for three years and absolutely love it, but just the tubeset costs the framebuilder close to $600, and that's not counting the BB shell, lugs, dropouts, or labor. When you add the wear and tear on tooling it's hard for me to imagine a lugged 953 bike with Rival for anywhere close to $1600, even if the labor costs next to nothing."

    I have no idea what 953 costs, however building a bike in ti cant be cheap either. What about colombus xcr or whatever the other stainless is?

  14. #64
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    Nice bike, Mike....

    That's the way to do it...we do not want another "retro" bike....we want a nice steel frame with modern good components so the bike has good performance like a modern Serotta or Colnago. There is no shame in a steel framed bike with 21st century technology attached to it.....on the contrary, it is actually great.

    I would certainly buy a modern performance steel framed bike with modern age technology and with an acceptably low weight....so I could race it and piss off the CF riders......

    Kudos on this nice bike...keep up the good work.

    The Le Champion Team TI I bought from you is a real gem by the way.
    Phil
    "Caniving Old Fart With Absolutely No Talent"
    "Mind Like Parachute, Works Best When Open"

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by nas130
    I have no idea what 953 costs, however building a bike in ti cant be cheap either. What about colombus xcr or whatever the other stainless is?
    Columbus XCr tubeset costs about the same as a Reynolds 953 tubeset.

    Nova Cycles Supply - Columbus XCr pricing
    -Stan
    my bikes

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock
    Yeah, y'know... this advertising/shill thread really should be moved to the Motobecane forum. Like everyone else, I fell for it too.

    .
    I have no problem with it being here. I think it's admirable that he's asking for suggestions.
    I have a single track mind

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock
    Yeah, y'know... this advertising/shill thread really should be moved to the Motobecane forum. Like everyone else, I fell for it too.

    Mods?

    .
    Not sure you understand the definition of a "shill".

  18. #68
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    Cant understand why the OP do not just copy a high end pinarello, colnago or bottechia from the mid 80's to start figuring out stuff. Tubing is only a details because for sure the bike will have 1 or 2 tubes that are real and all the other ones will have 0.9 straight gauge (costs) tubing, all the mass produced steel bikes are like that nowadays, unless u go custom. Then they put the sticker and the buyer is happy and proud of his theoretically full Reynolds 853 frame.

    Triple chroming is expensive so wonder if the chinese can do it for cheap, good paint can be done anywhere. Long chen sells zillions of lugs so get good lugs is not a problem.

    There u go OP, your problem is fixed

  19. #69
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    This is how a steel bike should looks like to start with, then figure it out the tubing.

    http://www.ibikedb.net/bikes/34387-b...doro-carnielli

    http://www.cykelhobby.com/bottecchia.htm

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanya
    I have no problem with it being here. I think it's admirable that he's asking for suggestions.
    That's just it... he's not. He's already spec'd the bike, and is just advertising, as is his MO.

    Re-read some of the thread... I'm not the only one who's picked up on it,.
    .
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse D Smith
    Not sure you understand the definition of a "shill".
    Not sure you understand BikeDirect's MO.

    Regardless, it does properly belong on the Motobecane forum.
    .
    System: Fake news?? Trump is a Fake President™, for god's sake.

    Monk: I want to go like my Dad did – peacefully, in his sleep, not screaming in terror like his passengers.

    Plat: I'd rather fellate a syphilitic goat than own a Cervelo.

    EJ Dionne: Modern-day conservatism isn't conservatism. It's reaction rooted in deep pessimism that isn't in keeping with the American character.

    Seam: Saw Bjork poop onstage back in the day. It blew my teenage mind.


  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock
    That's just it... he's not. He's already spec'd the bike, and is just advertising, as is his MO.

    Re-read some of the thread... I'm not the only one who's picked up on it,.
    .

    Actually, already spec'd several steel bikes and getting ideas here on several others.
    That was the purpose of the thread; see what specs and price ranges are interesting for those that prefer lugs. As I stated, I think I know about the demand on the Tigged 4130 bikes in terms of prices & specs..

    Several comments on here that indicated members expected extra low prices on new lugged frames relative to cost actually conveniced me that frames needed to be kitted with high level parts to mitagate the cost.

    Lugged frames are much different; you have much higher cost and a difernt group of customers who are willing to pay more to get the lugs.

    I personnally think more questions to forum members by manufacturers would be better; not worse -- for the forum & cycling in general.
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraman6970
    This is how a steel bike should looks like to start with, then figure it out the tubing.

    http://www.ibikedb.net/bikes/34387-b...doro-carnielli

    http://www.cykelhobby.com/bottecchia.htm

    these are nice looking bikes
    lots of chrome; and in fact; some customers have ask us for fully chromed lugged frames / bikes

    I also like the full paint look
    actually most high-end bikes I sold in the late 70s / early 80s were full paint; single color
    next most popular was full paint with panels.
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraman6970
    Cant understand why the OP do not just copy a high end pinarello, colnago or bottechia from the mid 80's to start figuring out stuff. Tubing is only a details because for sure the bike will have 1 or 2 tubes that are real and all the other ones will have 0.9 straight gauge (costs) tubing, all the mass produced steel bikes are like that nowadays, unless u go custom. Then they put the sticker and the buyer is happy and proud of his theoretically full Reynolds 853 frame.

    Triple chroming is expensive so wonder if the chinese can do it for cheap, good paint can be done anywhere. Long chen sells zillions of lugs so get good lugs is not a problem.

    There u go OP, your problem is fixed

    You are partly correct; the typical build today is 3 tubes of name brand tubing; then tappered guage 4130 rear tri & fork blades. Sometimes the rear tri & fork is the same gauge and weight as those in the complete tubing set.

    it would be odd to see a full Reynolds 853 frame
    you can get a rather light bike then you do; but it can be too expensive to sell




    this bike is rather light for a mountain bike; 853 and more money than a Ti bike
    therefore; not really a good market for it

    That is part of the reason for this entire post; figure out what cyclists might actually be interested in for lugged road bikes & frames

    Seems like if the frame can be under $500 and have name brand tubing; there maybe some interest; if a complete bike can be sold for less than the value of the group & wheels; then some customers would be willing to try out a lugged name-brand tubing frame from Tainwan -- but that there is still more interest if the frame is made in USA or Italy.

    Steel bikes are an up hill battle: much more risky than Aluminum, Carbon, or even Ti -- however, I like steel and intend to try several configuations.
    Last edited by bikesdirect; 09-17-2010 at 03:07 AM.
    mike
    http://www.bikesdirect.com - supports Mtbr.com and RoadBikeReview.com as great places to exchange ideas
    ~~~~
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." – Mahatma Ghandi

  25. #75
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    I like the bike, looks good. I would chrome the whole fork though. It would probably be cheaper to do too, wouldn't it?

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