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  1. #26
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    spoke to my rep at pin. Said they never did direct mount brakes bc campy and sram dont have one just shimano.

  2. #27
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    Tell your rep when Pina adds direct mounts I will buy one.

  3. #28
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    that will be when campy and sram make one

  4. #29
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    Europcar has Campagnolo ones at le Tour.

    Colnago and a few others had braze-on centre bolts back in the 70s. They are on some of his frame blueprints in his museum. Mechanics had to bend the springs to adjust them, so they didn't last long. The modern designs should be more practical.

  5. #30
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    prob see it on the f9 then

  6. #31
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    One of the reason it does not have direct mount is because the bike was developed specifically for team SKY. The reason for the rear brake not being under the stays is team Sky did not like the problems of servicing. If you look at the rearstay junction at the top by the seat tube you will notice a small bumpout on the left side. Its there specifically for the Shimano rear brake. Its an aerodynamic detail to allow for less turbulence across the brake pull arm.

    I talked to the lead Jaguar engineer at the unveiling. The guy was giddy about how well they did on the aero improvements on the bike.

  7. #32
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    I dint know what direct mount brake were before I read this....I don't think they are a must have but they do sound good
    Dogma, synapse disc, caad 10, de rosa neo primato, felt CX, epic, fat bike

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by antihero77 View Post
    spoke to my rep at pin. Said they never did direct mount brakes bc campy and sram dont have one just shimano.
    That's because Shimano invented the direct mount brake. Trek was the first company to adopt the technology, Pinarello is slow to the game. It's a fairly new technology and requires quite a bit of retooling and re-design for bike companies.

    Similar to when Shimano invented the front derailleur or the rear derailleur. It takes time for companies to adopt the technology, fabricate and tool for it.

    Trek bikes professionally are primarily not Shimano bikes, only one of their teams rides Shimano. So saying that Pina won't make a direct mount frame just because there isn't brakes yet from SRAM or Campy is nonsense if you ask me. I think Pina is just slow to the game and were already too far along with their 2015 lineup designs when the direct brake thing hit.
    use a torque wrench

  9. #34
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    Another review by a Florida Dealer:
    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/P...id=BeM2jzUIRnc

  10. #35
    merckxman
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    What do you mean by this? A particular version of the rear/front der? Certainly Shimano didn't invent them.
    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post

    Similar to when Shimano invented the front derailleur or the rear derailleur.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMsRepBike View Post
    It's a fairly new technology and requires quite a bit of retooling and re-design for bike companies
    Peugot were using direct mount Mafac brakes in the 1970s.

    It would not be hard to add the mounts. But it would render the frame un-salable to Campagnolo or SRAM users.

  12. #37
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    One of the most dissappointing frames I have ridden yet

    I have been in the bike trade for sometime - I am a cat 1 racer and a bike tester for some bike manufacturers. I purchased one of these frames from a shop in France where I live - its a shop which sponsors my team so I received a stunning deal. My requirements were; aero but not at the compromise of practicality (brakes next to BB shells), specificities on geometry and obviously some aesthetic ticks in the box.

    The Pin won over the Propel, new Foil, Tarmac and some other choices.

    I am taking it back to the dealer tomorrow, I have had incredible headset issues - apparently a known issue, and under load 380watts+ the flex in the frame combined with the lack of clearance in the rear stays is unforgivable. I have put nearly 2000km into my pin in 6 weeks - no racing - I am not racing this season - and I have never wanted or willed a bike to deliver to be so let down.

    It's not a great bike and I can understand why BC moved away from them to Cervelo.

    I have done most of my formative racing on a Venge. Which performed much better albeit I prefer the lower Geom of the Pin.

    If you are a lighter rider and don't produce big watts then it could work for you, on the upside the handling is very stable and accurate no fall away at the HT under speedy descents. The bottom bracket and rear triangle is of an immense disappointment. Avoid at all costs if you are in powerful 75kg + cat and for the love of god Pinarello sort the headset out!

  13. #38
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    Red face

    Sorry but I can't believe your story. The F8 is a great bike and I can't imagine that team sky would use a faulty product because they can ride every bike they want.
    You are the first that is disappointed about the F8 so I assume that you have a faulty bike or your local bike shop made mistakes. I ride the Dogma 65.1 myself next to my Tarmac S-works sl4 and I really love the Dogma. I also realy love my S-works but the ride quality of the Dogma is special.
    The 65.1 is simmilar to the F8 I suppose so I think that your comment on the F8 is really strange and If your test bike had some problems, you can't say the F8 is a bad bike.
    It is possible that you don't like the Dogma F8 but maybe you should check out another F8 and check out the setup of the bike and make another test ride.
    Last edited by Barts27; 09-08-2015 at 05:44 AM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barts27 View Post
    Sorry but I can't believe your story. The F8 is a great bike and I can't imagine that team sky would use a faulty product because then can ride every bike they want.
    You are the first that is disappointed about the F8 so I assume that you have a faulty bike or your local bike shop made mistakes. I ride the Dogma 65.1 myself next to my Tarmac S-works sl4 and I really love the Dogma. I also realy love my S-works but the ride quality of the Dogma is special.
    \
    Barts I fail to see why you don't believe but that's your call. British Cycling used to use Pinarello now they use Cervelo. I can verify my power data and I can show photos of my bike if need be. I am only recanting my experience and knowledge I have no reason to anything other than straight with my findings. If you are a light rider making climbers watts then I can see how you would love the bike, but if like me you are 191cm 83/4kgs and making big watts then this isn't the best bike in my experience. The clearance with a 25c tyre is not great in any circumstance and the torsional rigidity isn't as strong as I expected and not in the same cat as an SL4 or Venge.

    What are your experiences/height/power outputs?

  15. #40
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    I am a strong sprinter. I am 90kg and 187cm. I have no problems with the Dogma 65.1. so that's why I am surprised by your opinion. I have ridden the Schwalbe One 25mm in the 65.1 and this didn't give any problems when the road was dry. In the wet some road dirt got in the way with the brakes so clearance wasn't that good. I use the Vittoria 24mm tires now and that works great.
    I used the Lightweight Meilenstein clinchers in my Dogma and some Bora tubes.
    Are you sure that the frame is the problem and not the wheels on the F8 you rode?

    I am don't know my power outputs but I can sprint flat out above 60km/u.

    The reason why BC went to Cervelo has nothing to do with Pinarello but with money. Cervelo gave a better deal I suppose. If the Dogma F8 was not a good bike I am sure that team sky would race the 65.1.

  16. #41
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    Barts - tried with three wheelsets - a set of brand New Trek Aeolous 5's, and in this case yes I would concur that the issue was the wheels. Arguably the worst wheels I have ever used and needn't be as bad really let down by the Bontrager/DT hubs - I used them once gave them back - I used to work with Trek. The none drive-side bearing cover on the Aeolus is enormous taking up real-estate that could of been used for making the wheel stiffer. Too many companies are heavily focused on Aero in the wheelset business and forgoe data on torsional rigidity - you can have the most aero wheel in the world however if it contorts under power all that aero prowess is for nothing - rant over that's one for another time.

    Then I used a brand new set of Dura Ace C35 wheels - excellent wheelset, within 6 weeks the driveside freehub body bearings have been BBQ'd. Then the straw that broke the camels back today was in a 20min sub FTP test using an old benchmark wheel the Zipp 30 alu. In all tests the tyres were the consistent measure a Vredstien Fortezza Senso 25c. The clearance in the rear triangle is tight made all the tighter by having a lower than desired torsional rigidity.

    BTW I specifically chose that array of wheels for the good spread of wheel rim depths - the Aeoulus having even fatter rim width than a 303 at 27mm if I recall correctly. The C35's more like 24mm - I may be wrong on that specific measure but I know that the three offer a good mix.

    The fact that Sky use the f8 added all the more to my disappointment - the choice of bike ridden by any pro team or rider isn't all down to money - certainly not at BC level.

    I can put my headset and fork findings down to a fault - the rear of lower head of the fork has seen some significant wear actually showing signs of grated carbon when the frame was stripped - imagine my amazement. This I can forgive as a fault, however the rear triangle is simply not as good as other framesets I have tested/raced and used and a real let down! I

  17. #42
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    Thanks for the feedback and your opinion on the F8. I probably have to make a test ride myself on the F8. I am wondering what the F8 owners have to say about it.
    I was planning to change my 65.1 frameset for a F8, but I really like my 65.1 so I am not in a hurry. Besides that it took me a while to get used to the F8. I am not 100% fond of the aero look of the rear seatstays and the way they are placed on the seat tube. Anyway I saw some Dogma F8 bikes that looked really nice. ;-)

  18. #43
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    Here's mine Dogma f8 - ride review-img_0326.jpg

    57.5, Dura Ace mechanical (didn't like the interface with Di2, chapeau Sram with Etap), ProVibe Stealth 140mm stem and stealth bars, stages PM

  19. #44
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    Guys...
    I am a super racer.
    I test bikes for manufacturers.
    Guys...
    I got the F8, of course for a really low price because of me, and guys...
    It's a noodle.
    The bottom bracket is bad.
    The headset is bad.
    Guys... I'm a super power sprinter, I know.
    I can't believe the tour winner is a noodle guys.
    Guys...
    What's wrong?
    use a torque wrench

  20. #45
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    Argh and up surfaces from the depths the unhealthy cynic.

  21. #46
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    The purpose of me passing my information was to provide a genuine sense of prospective not dick swing. It is all to easy when having handed over the best part of £7k to have to self justify and sell back to yourself the product that you you have bought and worked hard for. I offer my background information as it provides a back drop for my very brief overview of a bike which I have spent some time getting to know.

    I mention that I purchased my bike as I think that it is important to know for the afore mentioned reason. I am not having to ratify my purchase - I bought it from Patrick Beraud in Frejus 8 weeks ago, it is the shop that sponsors the Team I ride for, Mimosa Sprint Mandilieu. I am hands on involved in geometry and profile makeup at the moment for a leading UK Ti brand specifically there race machine and meeting it's torsional rigidity goals which we are benchmarking against Carbon with efbe.

    I offer an alternative sense of prospective on a bike which I now have extensive experience on in some of the best terrain you can ride. The difficulty with too many reviews read about the Dogma f8 or any other bike is that they are based upon singular and early 120 - 190km rides, not after an extensive period. After a single ride it's easy to bestow the virtues of a great experience. You only really get to know a bikes foibles by riding it over an extended period. Always look at reviews on the 'long term'. I have said that the torsional rigidity of the F8 was for me disappointing whilst the handling great, the clearance in the rear stays is very disappointing - you need be a cyclist of no proficiency to judge this as the camera can verify that stationary. Take it as you will. I hope that some people get some benefit from my advice - if you are sub 80k and not a large FTP watt output rider this will be a great bike, for a larger more powerful Rouleur/Sprinter it may not live up to expectations.
    Dogma f8 - ride review-img_0479.jpg

  22. #47
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    Maybe you should try another set of tyres. Some tyres build in bigger than 25mm.

  23. #48
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    Barts - its a good call and was going to be my next exercise, I have some new spangled Spesh cotton tyres, banged them on my sons race bike at the weekend for him to test, but they came unseated at the back so I didn't want to risk it. Given the state of the rear of the fork crown the bike is going back anyways. The Vredsteins do come up big compared to a Conti, and certainly more volumeous (sp) than the Spesh turbo 24's. I'll let you know how I fair tomorrow after a visit to chez Beraud ;)

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by satcomjets View Post
    Barts - its a good call and was going to be my next exercise, I have some new spangled Spesh cotton tyres, banged them on my sons race bike at the weekend for him to test, but they came unseated at the back so I didn't want to risk it. Given the state of the rear of the fork crown the bike is going back anyways. The Vredsteins do come up big compared to a Conti, and certainly more volumeous (sp) than the Spesh turbo 24's. I'll let you know how I fair tomorrow after a visit to chez Beraud ;)
    OK the bike got deposited at the dealer, the 'known' issue with headsets was predominantly the 65.1 and it was a known issue as confirmed by Mr Pinarello France. My bike has been warrantied and I am going to get a new frame. It appears with the same issue.

    In the rear triangle - I further tested the bike with 23c tyres and they were better but I could still under full load bring the bike to torsionally flex way too much.

    My evaluation of the bike is as follows in summary:

    Good Points:
    Great handling
    Aero Niceties that really work without sacrificing practicality
    Looks stunning
    Headtube stiffness is ace the bike at the front end tracks really well on fast decents and out of sprint corners - especially when it is still, see below!

    Bad Points
    Technical issues with the headset
    The front fork can catch wind deflection, especially when the wind is moderately to reasonably strong, this can be an issue on a windy decent of a col etc somethign I found myself mid turn having to adjust one too many times, the new onda fork simply isn't aero enough at some yaw angles!
    Rear tyre clearance - confirmed that a 25c tyre does not work in the rear triangle - this is a fail, a big one.

    Really bad points:
    The rear triangle isn't torsionally stiff enough for the high output/larger rider. This is poor.
    Also is the headset issue of the 65.1 an issue in the F8.......

    Summary
    Ok, look, I have never wanted to love a bike or wanted a bike to live up to the hype more than this, and it simply fell quite a long way short. Also note within yourself that a short term single day test is never enough to get to know a bike ala most magazines (no names Ben at Peleton ) Also I appreciate that having jazzed the thick end of £4k+ on a frame you will be selling it back to yourself all day long. If you are a climber or a lighter weight rider then I am sure that the handling and every other aspect of this bike will live up to your expectations. However Pinarello really haven't in the rear triangle catered for the sort of rigidity that a strong sprinter or rouleur would require - it doesn't live up to other bikes in this category, simple. The aero attacking niceties are great but if you are trying to get away to stay gone, your effort could easily get lost if you are dialling in a lot of power through via a large torso. Sorry Pinarello it's not good enough!

    My two penneth

  25. #50
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    thanks Andre Greipel for the review. We can rest assured knowing that this bike is not intended for gorillas.

    joke aside, i'm with you on the 25s being a close fit but I've seen wheels out of dish causing this too.

    Regarding flex, Im 84kg, admittedly not a sprinter but can get in breaks and keeps some power down on the pedals and can't agree with you on the flexy rear. I feel that it's fine and feels like it stands me up out of the saddle. I ride a 54 but maybe the larger frames are not built to scale the load like my standard size.

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