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  1. #1
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    Anyone Catch PBS' Frontline "The Dark Side?"

    I'm glad to see that PBS hasn't dropped this story. I only hope our newly elected politicians in Congress/Senate will stand up for what's right, and while they're at it, the Constitution too.

    There are some pretty good interviews with people like Paul Pillar.

    http://www-c.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/
    Last edited by spyderman; 01-02-2007 at 10:35 PM.
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

    السلام عليكم

  2. #2
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    Just saw it

    I just saw it and it made my head hurt. Is the VP really that petty?
    You'd think we were here for something other than fun. - Ishmael

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaeP
    I just saw it and it made my head hurt. Is the VP really that petty?
    explain please, for those of us who didn't see it.

    and I have no doubt he is that petty.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaeP
    I just saw it and it made my head hurt. Is the VP really that petty?
    I think so...read Woodwards new book. Seems that everyone is petty and more interested in egos and personal power than results. Rummy was even worse. Said he was gonna reform the military and instead basically put himself up as supreme leader ignoring all decent advice from the likes of Powell and the Joint Chiefs to all of our detriment.
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

  5. #5
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    good lord..

    how did these people get elected to the highest office..?

    I watched this show last night...it was so infuriating and makes this country look even worse.

    I think I'll go become an ex-pat.....things have to be better in other countries as they sure as hell can't be worse.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus
    explain please, for those of us who didn't see it.

    and I have no doubt he is that petty.
    You can watch it online at the link above.
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

    السلام عليكم

  7. #7
    AM999's Liberal Facist
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahueh
    how did these people get elected to the highest office..?





    Are you familiar with the general intelligence of the electorate that put them there?
    Man. You are all stuped.
    ~RUFUSPHOTO

  8. #8
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    I guess not..

    Quote Originally Posted by Room 1201
    Are you familiar with the general intelligence of the electorate that put them there?
    I live and grew up in a fairly educated, progressive place that seems to hold a high proportion of people that can actually think for themselves...

    maybe I'm in a bubble....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahueh
    I live and grew up in a fairly educated, progressive place that seems to hold a high proportion of people that can actually think for themselves...
    Many people are like dogs, their decisions are based more on emotions than intellect. A large part of the coup of Rove and company was to get people who previously voted democrat to vote Republican by appealing to their emotions on issues like homosexuality and the place of religion in our society and making them "feel" as if their way of life was under attack by "liberals" (i.e. democrats).

  10. #10
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    So if 9/11 was so important in the swing of power in washington, and information was 'adjusted' to invade Iraq; can I connect the dots to say these same people invovled in adjusting information may have done the same with 9/11 attacks?

    Something does stink with current government. This was a great frontline.

    Anyone who enjoyed this PBS special should check out BBC - The Power of Nightmares, The Rise of the Politics of Fear

  11. #11
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    I like you Dwayne...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry
    Many people are like dogs, their decisions are based more on emotions than intellect. A large part of the coup of Rove and company was to get people who previously voted democrat to vote Republican by appealing to their emotions on issues like homosexuality and the place of religion in our society and making them "feel" as if their way of life was under attack by "liberals" (i.e. democrats).

    can we be friends?!

  12. #12
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    Listen to you guys. The whole country (except you of course) are complete idiots. Isn't that special.

  13. #13
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    And Woodward's got no ego at all, I can't wait for the new congress. This is gonna be great...

  14. #14
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    like I said..

    Quote Originally Posted by metalhead
    Listen to you guys. The whole country (except you of course) are complete idiots. Isn't that special.
    70% of my state voted against the current administration...the current administration are fully of ego-maniacle, power driven, bald, white idiots...therefore, via proxy, 70% of my state are NOT idiots.

    five words man: twenty eight percent approval rating

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahueh
    70% of my state voted against the current administration...the current administration are fully of ego-maniacle, power driven, bald, white idiots...therefore, via proxy, 70% of my state are NOT idiots.

    five words man: twenty eight percent approval rating
    Where are you from, MA? By the way, the same "idiots" that put Bush in office, just put the Dems in control of Congress. Are they still "idiots"?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyncStar
    Where are you from, MA? By the way, the same "idiots" that put Bush in office, just put the Dems in control of Congress. Are they still "idiots"?
    no, different idiots put the dems in control of Congress.
    Eff the King's Guard. Eff the city. Eff the King.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyncStar
    Where are you from, MA? By the way, the same "idiots" that put Bush in office, just put the Dems in control of Congress. Are they still "idiots"?
    IIRC, a majority of Kerry voters accurately knew his position on the issues. A majority of Bush voters held inaccurate views of his policy positions.

    Perhaps both groups were idiots, but one side seemed to be far more ignorant than the other.

    http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pr...w_9_29_04.html

    Majorities of Bush supporters incorrectly assumed that Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (84%), and the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the International Criminal Court (66%), the treaty banning land mines (72%), and the Kyoto Treaty on global warming (51%). They were divided between those who knew that Bush favors building a new missile defense system now (44%) and those who incorrectly believe he wishes to do more research until its capabilities are proven (41%). However, majorities were correct that Bush favors increased defense spending (57%) and wants the US, not the UN, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (70%).

    Kerry supporters were much more accurate in assessing their candidate’s positions on all these issues. Majorities knew that Kerry favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (90%); the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (77%); the International Criminal Court (59%); the land mines treaty (79%); and the Kyoto Treaty on climate change (74%). They also knew that he favors continuing research on missile defense without deploying a system now (68%), and wants the UN, not the US, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (80%). A plurality of 43% was correct that Kerry favors keeping defense spending the same, with 35% assuming he wants to cut it and 18% to expand it.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr hoo
    IIRC, a majority of Kerry voters accurately knew his position on the issues. A majority of Bush voters held inaccurate views of his policy positions.

    Perhaps both groups were idiots, but one side seemed to be far more ignorant than the other.

    http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pr...w_9_29_04.html


    [/I]
    The poll itself is incredibly flawed. Are you familiar with the concept of a "push poll?"

  19. #19
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    After watching this a second time online today between meetings, what really concerns me is the ability of individuals to achieve so much power in our system. Dick's move to hold so much influence in inteligence and military connections bothers me.

    How can it be that this is allowed to go on?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyncStar
    The poll itself is incredibly flawed. Are you familiar with the concept of a "push poll?"

    Yes. But you clearly are not, since that is not a push poll.

    But feel free to explain these flaws to me in detail. Make your case that the question forms were a "push poll". Make your case against PIPA in general if you want. Make your case about the methodology. Don't worry about being too technical, I know a lot about survey methodology.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyncStar
    The poll itself is incredibly flawed. Are you familiar with the concept of a "push poll?"
    Saying a poll is flawed is one thing, but proving it is another...

    "PIPA selected these questions from those asked in polls by the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations which dealt with issues on which the presidential candidates have taken clear and documented positions."

    So, what's your evidence that this was a "push poll?" Were they trying to advance a falsehood? Were they trying to leave a false impression with the people polled like Rove did to McCain in SC?
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

    السلام عليكم

  22. #22
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    simple

    Quote Originally Posted by mt.biker
    After watching this a second time online today between meetings, what really concerns me is the ability of individuals to achieve so much power in our system. Dick's move to hold so much influence in inteligence and military connections bothers me.

    How can it be that this is allowed to go on?
    have a Delay led Congress that doesn't do anything. Have a Con senate that does the same. Have Cons sitting on every committee then do no oversight. There was more testimony heard regarding Clinton's X-Mas card fund than Abu Gharib 120 hrs to 5 ratio.
    this same Congress and Senate who investigated everything a President did for 6 years now just sits on its hands for 2 days a week. The bills come prewritten by industry lobbyists, pork and earmarks are at an all time high. That is how. Why? Cause many folks think 2 men kissing is more important than a govt out of control.

    but lets see Nixon - Watergate
    Reagan /Bush 1 - Iran / Contra
    Bush 2 w/ Cons in Control - the most corrupt govt ever.

    do you detect a pattern?

    now lets review the key players: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove. hmmmm they were involved in each one...............
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    lets see Nixon - Watergate
    Reagan /Bush 1 - Iran / Contra
    Bush 2 w/ Cons in Control - the most corrupt govt ever.

    do you detect a pattern?

    now lets review the key players: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove. hmmmm they were involved in each one...............
    Ya know, no one, and I MEAN NO ONE, has ever satisfied me as to the whereabouts of Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rove on November 22, 1963!!

  24. #24
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    seriously

    why don't ya do a little search. type Karl Rove and watergate on The Google. search the intranets and stuff
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie
    why don't ya do a little search. type Karl Rove and watergate on The Google. search the intranets and stuff
    Everyone knows that he was a Segretti flunky. So weren't lots of other people. That said, do you know where he was on 11/22/1963??

    But, seriously, what was your original point? Sounded very conspiratorial to me.

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