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  1. #1
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    Aussie PM John Howard is a Major ****! Turns Back on Darfur...

    Howard Rejects UN's Request for Troops in Darfur! Nice job Howard! Have you been suckling at the teet of Bush for too long that your gray matter has deteriorated to his level?

    What a major dick!!!

    "Why is Australian Prime Minister John Howard consistently undermining international efforts to provide humanitarian help to the people of Sudan—even after his government has acknowledged that Darfur is one of the world's worst humanitarian disasters?

    In addition to recently rejecting the U.N.'s request to send troops to Darfur (citing Australia's unpopular "war on terror" commitments), Howard has just announced that Australia will no longer accept refugees from Africa under its humanitarian refugee program until at least mid-2008. The government argues that this "freeze" is necessary due to the failure of many Africans, particularly Sudanese, to "integrate" into society. Instead, the government wants to take in more refugees from Asia. Given Howard's previous less-than-generous approach to asylum-seeking Asians, including falsely accusing a number of them in 2001 of throwing their children overboard a ship to blackmail the Australian government—the infamous Tampa incident—Howard's newfound concern for local refugees seems disingenuous, to say the least.

    While critics have denounced Howard's refugee decision as racist, supporters argue that it's justified given the problems some Sudanese refugees have experienced settling into Australia, including a number of violent incidents. But are these incidents really surprising? Refugees, by definition, are fleeing from persecution. Many of them, particularly from Sudan, have been traumatized by violence. Instead of simply closing the door, these cases should prompt the government to analyze its refugee counseling programs to try to ensure that refugees are learning the skills, including language skills, to properly "integrate" into Australian society. It is, after all, intended to be a humanitarian effort.

    Alas, that's not likely to happen. What's more likely is that Howard will—once again—continue to push Australia's xenophobic buttons in the run-up to Australia's election, just as he successfully did during the Tampa crisis before the 2001 election. Perhaps this time, though, Howard's support for the Iraq war will prove too unpopular for that tactic to succeed."
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

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  2. #2
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    A lot of people here agree

    that he's a dick so much so that he and his government are facing a defeat at the upcomming elections of a biblical magnitude. This will be closely followed by Bush's party losing office and then the world will be rid of 2 of the biggest criminals the world has seen since Hitler started his European trek.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpap
    ....and then the world will be rid of 2 of the biggest criminals the world has seen since Hitler started his European trek.
    ....and on that hysterical Godwin...

  4. #4
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    ^^^ tell me about it - very poor form.

    As for howard - what makes u think this predominately US board cares what Aus thinks about darfur?

    hard to see how its our problem/ how we can help. Bottom line, the US is the only one that matters in terms of intervention at the moment. They're not having a bar of it.

    Sad but true.

    As for howard, its true he plays the race card - but this time i agree w/ him. Australia should quit being the dumping ground for refugees and close its doors to all unskilled immigrants. What some people wont accept is that we receive the bottom feeders these days - immigration today isn't what it was in the post ww2 era. We had hard working europeans and post white aus policy, many more from the world over.

    Today, a 'refugee' comes, is illiterate, and their first act is to put their hand out for the dole. Brilliant.
    Sue its shits and giggles when the economy is good and the gov't can afford it - but believe me, when we slip into recession - it will be blood on the streets. Every 'foreigner' with a job or recieving a pension while there is an 'aussie' without will be cause for a riot.

    And don't think the last few decades of relative calm precludes the possibilty of deep social strife, scapegoating and violence - they said the same thing about germany.

    As for the violent of the sudanese - stay in africa. That's a nice excuse u got for them, but its BS. It was a crime of intent, they are thugs b/c as i say we import the trash. How is conselling our issue? We should look long and hard about our immigration policy. I for one support the new citizenship test - its fair. The questions are simple and one can study for them before it is taken (have a look at it - it will take a dim-wit about 10mins to prep for it - you only need a score of 12/20 !) - it ensures we accept at least semi-intelligent people who can read and write - beleive me, i know of those who still cannot despite being in the nation for decades. It also makes them think and know a little about our country apart from the fact we hand out unemployment and disability pensions to all and sundry for doing absolutely nothing.

    Oh and before pointing the finger, forget it. I'm a first gen aussie, and with a background being from a neighbouring nation, i know EXACTLY what *some* of those sudanese are like. Forget integration - they are illiterate in their own language. Oh btw, my family, not one recieved a red dime from this gov't. End unskilled immigration that is only a drain on our nation. Travel to a 3rd world country and see how they live - the world is no place for a bleeding heart - just try to keep the prosperous nations that way, diverse yes, but skilled, hardworking and law abiding.
    Last edited by wankski; 10-05-2007 at 03:34 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpap
    that he's a dick so much so that he and his government are facing a defeat at the upcomming elections of a biblical magnitude. This will be closely followed by Bush's party losing office and then the world will be rid of 2 of the biggest criminals the world has seen since Hitler started his European trek.
    .....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Aussie PM John Howard is a Major ****!  Turns Back on Darfur...-2001424496812683268_rs.jpg  
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  6. #6
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    Wow, read this people

    Quote Originally Posted by wankski
    ^^^ tell me about it - very poor form.

    As for howard - what makes u think this predominately US board cares what Aus thinks about darfur?

    hard to see how its our problem/ how we can help. Bottom line, the US is the only one that matters in terms of intervention at the moment. They're not having a bar of it.

    Sad but true.

    As for howard, its true he plays the race card - but this time i agree w/ him. Australia should quit being the dumping ground for refugees and close its doors to all unskilled immigrants. What some people wont accept is that we receive the bottom feeders these days - immigration today isn't what it was in the post ww2 era. We had hard working europeans and post white aus policy, many more from the world over.

    Today, a 'refugee' comes, is illiterate, and their first act is to put their hand out for the dole. Brilliant.
    Sue its shits and giggles when the economy is good and the gov't can afford it - but believe me, when we slip into recession - it will be blood on the streets. Every 'foreigner' with a job or recieving a pension while there is an 'aussie' without will be cause for a riot.

    And don't think the last few decades of relative calm precludes the possibilty of deep social strife, scapegoating and violence - they said the same thing about germany.

    As for the violent of the sudanese - stay in africa. That's a nice excuse u got for them, but its BS. It was a crime of intent, they are thugs b/c as i say we import the trash. How is conselling our issue? We should look long and hard about our immigration policy. I for one support the new citizenship test - its fair. The questions are simple and one can study for them before it is taken (have a look at it - it will take a dim-wit about 10mins to prep for it - you only need a score of 12/20 !) - it ensures we accept at least semi-intelligent people who can read and write - beleive me, i know of those who still cannot despite being in the nation for decades. It also makes them think and know a little about our country apart from the fact we hand out unemployment and disability pensions to all and sundry for doing absolutely nothing.

    Oh and before pointing the finger, forget it. I'm a first gen aussie, and with a background being from a neighbouring nation, i know EXACTLY what *some* of those sudanese are like. Forget integration - they are illiterate in their own language. Oh btw, my family, not one recieved a red dime from this gov't. End unskilled immigration that is only a drain on our nation. Travel to a 3rd world country and see how they live - the world is no place for a bleeding heart - just try to keep the prosperous nations that way, diverse yes, but skilled, hardworking and law abiding.
    First gen aussie? So your an Aboriginie? Quit being the dumping ground for refugees? Maybe they should have quit LONG ago.

  7. #7
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    *******************

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    I agree with jpap in confirming Howard is a racist, myopic, fear monger and represents the ugly remnants of the "white australia" policy..

    what really matter is that Howard and his government are likely to be finished very soon. then we can only hope to gain back some long lost respect in many facets of internation relations and domestic policies.
    I watched him walking in and it was like they say, you know, he kind of glowed. Like a ray of light was around him. A kind of Jesus. - Spirito (interviewing Spirito)




  8. #8
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    Wow, this has to be one of the most racist comments I've ever read...

    Quote Originally Posted by wankski
    ...
    ...
    hard to see how its our problem/ how we can help. Bottom line, the US is the only one that matters in terms of intervention at the moment. They're not having a bar of it.

    Sad but true.

    As for howard, its true he plays the race card - but this time i agree w/ him. Australia should quit being the dumping ground for refugees and close its doors to all unskilled immigrants. What some people wont accept is that we receive the bottom feeders these days - immigration today isn't what it was in the post ww2 era. We had hard working europeans and post white aus policy, many more from the world over.

    Today, a 'refugee' comes, is illiterate, and their first act is to put their hand out for the dole. Brilliant.
    Sue its shits and giggles when the economy is good and the gov't can afford it - but believe me, when we slip into recession - it will be blood on the streets. Every 'foreigner' with a job or recieving a pension while there is an 'aussie' without will be cause for a riot.

    And don't think the last few decades of relative calm precludes the possibilty of deep social strife, scapegoating and violence - they said the same thing about germany.

    As for the violent of the sudanese - stay in africa. That's a nice excuse u got for them, but its BS. It was a crime of intent, they are thugs b/c as i say we import the trash. How is conselling our issue? We should look long and hard about our immigration policy. I for one support the new citizenship test - its fair. The questions are simple and one can study for them before it is taken (have a look at it - it will take a dim-wit about 10mins to prep for it - you only need a score of 12/20 !) - it ensures we accept at least semi-intelligent people who can read and write - beleive me, i know of those who still cannot despite being in the nation for decades. It also makes them think and know a little about our country apart from the fact we hand out unemployment and disability pensions to all and sundry for doing absolutely nothing.

    Oh and before pointing the finger, forget it. I'm a first gen aussie, and with a background being from a neighbouring nation, i know EXACTLY what *some* of those sudanese are like. Forget integration - they are illiterate in their own language. Oh btw, my family, not one recieved a red dime from this gov't. End unskilled immigration that is only a drain on our nation. Travel to a 3rd world country and see how they live - the world is no place for a bleeding heart - just try to keep the prosperous nations that way, diverse yes, but skilled, hardworking and law abiding.
    I'm almost at a loss for words...

    "Hard to see how it's our problem/how can we help?" ~ What, your country can't send a couple thousand troops or MPs to provide security in order to prevent a genocide? Why not pull your 600 troops from Iraq and send them to do some real humanitarian work instead of supporting an illegal war?

    Bush has squandered our resources with his crusade in Iraq. The rest of the world needs to step up and show some leadership to prevent the ongoing genocide in Darfur. Your mindset that "this is the US's responsibility..." causes your nation to be stuck in a subservient role to the US. We already know that Bush is an idiot, but why is Howard following his lead?

    "I'm a first gen aussie..." So, you're a criminal that Britain dropped off on Australia when it was a prison island? You must be pretty old... That might explain some of you ignorant views...
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

    السلام عليكم

  9. #9
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    Ok, most people already know this, but I'll mention it anyway. Why doesn't the US and other Western countries send troops to Darfur? Simple; they have nothing we want; specifically oil. So we stay out of that "little fight" they are having...

    Then a couple of months ago, China steps up and says they are willing to send troops, as well as financial aid. Hmmm, are they trying to spread Communism? Not likely. Turns out geologic surveys have revealed there's oil in that there sandbox. All of a sudden, the US started clamouring up, saying we would do the same, and we didn't want the Chinese to invest in Darfur like they wanted (as a trade for investment, China would have gotten alot of drilling rights, presumably). All of this is still in limbo. Last I heard, the US was still wanting to send a large amount of aid (code-named Operation Halliburton)

    The main reason we (the US) and other countries don't send aid is actually somewhat logical; it's South Africa. Nope, it's not a race thing. It's a continent thing. No matter who you bolster/support/aid, as soon as the troops are pulled out, they go back to killing one another, destroying democracy, and eating cot like it was Frosted Flakes. At least when we help establish peace in the Balkans, they have the sense to sit and fester on their hatred for one another for a few decades before they fire up the genocide machine again, that's why we still help them, albeit in a "better late than never" approach. Rwanda, Somalia, Uganda, the Congo, Liberia, etc, etc. The minute any foreign troops leave, out come the pick-up trucks with 27 guys in them, each carrying an AK-47. Yes, it sucks, but it's the current situation.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    "I'm a first gen aussie..." So, you're a criminal that Britain dropped off on Australia when it was a prison island? You must be pretty old... That might explain some of you ignorant views...
    OMG, actually read my words - its far from racist ! typical socialists foaming at the mouth for blood and not listening to reason.

    Ignorant? hardly.

    FIRST GENERATION AUSSIE = i'm the first generation of my family BORN here. Its a common term. My parents came from a non-caucasian country in the 70s - as i referred to when aus ended the white aus policy. No i'm not white.

    If you read my thing rationally, i'm up for that kind of immigration, and if you pick up the last sentence i argued for a diverse australia ! how is that racist? ok, i may be elitist, i don't want *some* that are woefully uneducated that won't contibute - but that goes for a brit or a sudanese !

    Before you point the finger - volunteer at a refugee center like i did ! walk the streets of a 3rd world country like i did. Typically the outrage comes from those who haven't. How can I have anything against new australians, most of them are fantastic contributors to our society - in fact australia today would not be the same without them, no question ! but, i don't agree with an open door 'refugee' program where people come and and don't contribute and merely subsist off the gov't. I pay taxes. Is that ignorant? ok then i accept the title.


    As for Military intervention - to answer your question, no Aus can't spare a few thousand troops. We're not that big militarily. currently we have on 3,500 troops deployed overseas, and there is already talk of over-stretching! - we stopped the killing in east timor (which the labour foreign affairs minster Evans ok'ed back in the day, so there goes the theory about labour prestige in foreign affairs!) I would love a united EU presence - really the UN should have an army, but no country is willing to contribute. The reality is, the US is the only one that can exert force overseas. Until we have a strong EU, the hegemony will continue. Somalia saw what happens to too few troops and too little support with too big a task.

    Yes Iraq is BS but it happened. Don't even get me started about what i think about the rumsfeld-wolfowitz civilian take over of the US military. Sad.
    Afghanistan was the real target, and post-iraq most people have lost the stomach for the afghan campaign too.
    Last edited by wankski; 10-05-2007 at 11:19 PM.

  11. #11
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    I wonder how Hillary will save Darfur?

    Surely she will not deny Darfur refugees the baby bonds she promises us, that would be unfair. If baby bonds are good for America, then they are good for the world.

    How many troops will Hillary send to Darfur? Has someone asked her yet?

    So many unanswered questions.

    Tom
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoubRider
    I wonder how Hillary will save Darfur?

    Surely she will not deny Darfur refugees the baby bonds she promises us, that would be unfair. If baby bonds are good for America, then they are good for the world.

    How many troops will Hillary send to Darfur? Has someone asked her yet?

    So many unanswered questions.

    Tom
    Perhaps she'll send Bill there to intervene. There is a rumor that he will become Ambassador At Large to resurrect America's good name in the world. I wonder though, did she say she would send Bill abroad or that she would send Bill a broad?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit
    I wonder though, did she say she would send Bill abroad or that she would send Bill a broad?

    Are the two mutually exclusive??


    supervillain

  14. #14
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    Wankski
    i think you need to re visit those third world countries you have visited and take a look at refugees.
    the nature of refugees is desperation and seeking shelter not of choice but of nessacity. you have worked there,( i wonder if you ever really worked), so how can you be elitist in your selection of refugees? did you only deal with the bright looking ones or the ones that well already well versed in the nature of refugee camp politics? your views in your original post are either trollish or simply incredible.
    the vietnamese refugees that fled to hong kong in the 70s would have prefered to stay home and live peaceful lives but they had to flee persecution thus your country took thousands of them in. there was no IQ or education requirement in order to be allowed shelter and if there was surely that policy would be as roundly criticized as your elitist and discriminatory post was.

  15. #15
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    go back? no thanks, once was enough.

    Refugees is a complex issue and is to be distinguished from migration. There are of course genuine cases of refugees and we are bound by int'l convention to accept them.
    But migration policy is something else, and should be selective. We can't pick and choose with refugees, but we can with mainstream immigration.

    As for refugees, we have two groups post-99. Those on premanent protection visas and those on temporary. PPV holders are the ones sponsored by the UN, and we know them to be genuine, so no problem. We are a nation like any other and so we have global obligations. The TPV holders, not so much. We don't know who they are, these are the so called 'backdoor refugees'. i emphasise the word 'visa' - breach your conditions and bam, you're gone. Committing crimes obviously is such a breach.

    Outside of our obligation to take on UN sponsored refugees, our decision to take on more - or provide amnesty to TPV holders is a sovereign issue. Definately not the place for americans to comment on, no more than australians should have a view on Bush's proposed immigration amnesty bill (that failed).
    There are so many living in desperate conditions, what makes TPV holders so special?
    But immigration should be our focus, we have skills shortages, and at the moment we have good economic conditions and a need for specialised labour. Howard's solution was the baby bonus not the smartest subsidy i've come across.

    As for the OP, i really don't get defending the violence of some of these groups and giving the defence of the fact that they are refugees. For those that don't know, there are reports of groups bashing people at random, often at convenience stores and robbing them. lovely.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wankski
    OMG, actually read my words - its far from racist ! typical socialists foaming at the mouth for blood and not listening to reason.

    Ignorant? hardly.

    FIRST GENERATION AUSSIE = i'm the first generation of my family BORN here. Its a common term. My parents came from a non-caucasian country in the 70s - as i referred to when aus ended the white aus policy. No i'm not white.

    If you read my thing rationally, i'm up for that kind of immigration, and if you pick up the last sentence i argued for a diverse australia ! how is that racist? ok, i may be elitist, i don't want *some* that are woefully uneducated that won't contibute - but that goes for a brit or a sudanese !

    Before you point the finger - volunteer at a refugee center like i did ! walk the streets of a 3rd world country like i did. Typically the outrage comes from those who haven't. How can I have anything against new australians, most of them are fantastic contributors to our society - in fact australia today would not be the same without them, no question ! but, i don't agree with an open door 'refugee' program where people come and and don't contribute and merely subsist off the gov't. I pay taxes. Is that ignorant? ok then i accept the title.


    As for Military intervention - to answer your question, no Aus can't spare a few thousand troops. We're not that big militarily. currently we have on 3,500 troops deployed overseas, and there is already talk of over-stretching! - we stopped the killing in east timor (which the labour foreign affairs minster Evans ok'ed back in the day, so there goes the theory about labour prestige in foreign affairs!) I would love a united EU presence - really the UN should have an army, but no country is willing to contribute. The reality is, the US is the only one that can exert force overseas. Until we have a strong EU, the hegemony will continue. Somalia saw what happens to too few troops and too little support with too big a task. Yes Iraq is BS but it happened. Don't even get me started about what i think about the rumsfeld-wolfowitz civilian take over of the US military. Sad.
    Afghanistan was the real target, and post-iraq most people have lost the stomach for the afghan campaign too.
    While you're at it, perhaps there should be a test your citizens should take? You know, weed out the ones who just don't contribute enough to society. Euthanize the weak and defective and the ones you just don't like. You'll have your master race then...
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

    السلام عليكم

  17. #17
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    fine, fly off the handle

    i suggest we be selective with non-UN endorsed refugees and now i'm into eugenics? good work there bud

    to answer the q, no - we can't touch our citizens. Btw our crts validated the sovereign right to exclude aliens (non-citizens) as a result to the challenge to Tampa, so at least i'm using the independant law of the land as a back up and validation to my view.

    UN sponsored refugees are not only welcomed here, but we are obliged to take them. (i'm saying this...again!... sigh)


    Anyways, i'm looking forward to a brilliant dissertation on how we can indeed use the ADF to spearhead operations in Darfur... base it on reality tho, and not a convenient figment of your imagination - you know, the one where you assumed i'm some kind of Nazi.

  18. #18
    angel of the morning
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    dude,

    21 million people and we got a mighty big country. refugees come, get work, buy things, spend. yes, some take it easy and good on them as there's plenty of well established australians who do the same.

    you're just being reactionary and bigoted.
    I watched him walking in and it was like they say, you know, he kind of glowed. Like a ray of light was around him. A kind of Jesus. - Spirito (interviewing Spirito)




  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirito
    dude,

    21 million people and we got a mighty big country. refugees come, get work, buy things, spend. yes, some take it easy and good on them as there's plenty of well established australians who do the same.

    you're just being reactionary and bigoted.
    It's a mighty big country but not all of it is inhabitable. There are only so many spots on the beach and what about the tourists? Save some room for the tourists.

  20. #20
    angel of the morning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit
    It's a mighty big country but not all of it is inhabitable. There are only so many spots on the beach and what about the tourists? Save some room for the tourists.
    maybe we can double up for beach spots
    I watched him walking in and it was like they say, you know, he kind of glowed. Like a ray of light was around him. A kind of Jesus. - Spirito (interviewing Spirito)




  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wankski
    fine, fly off the handle

    i suggest we be selective with non-UN endorsed refugees and now i'm into eugenics? good work there bud

    to answer the q, no - we can't touch our citizens. Btw our crts validated the sovereign right to exclude aliens (non-citizens) as a result to the challenge to Tampa, so at least i'm using the independant law of the land as a back up and validation to my view.

    UN sponsored refugees are not only welcomed here, but we are obliged to take them. (i'm saying this...again!... sigh)


    Anyways, i'm looking forward to a brilliant dissertation on how we can indeed use the ADF to spearhead operations in Darfur... base it on reality tho, and not a convenient figment of your imagination - you know, the one where you assumed i'm some kind of Nazi.
    What's wrong with your society if you don't ease these people in? What programs are offered to acclimate and train? Lets drop you off in the middle of some unknown country like Russia and lets see how long it takes you to become productive. Lets see how you deal with the very discrimination you impose upon your refugees...
    "Walmart ... Where else can you crush your business competition, and yet, serve and control the lumpenproletariat." Mr. Grumpy

    السلام عليكم

  22. #22
    the_rydster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirito
    I agree with jpap in confirming Howard is a racist
    What 'racist' policy did Howard implement?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderman
    What's wrong with your society if you don't ease these people in? What programs are offered to acclimate and train? ... Lets see how you deal with the very discrimination you impose upon your refugees...
    oh gawd. Now its obvious i'm banging my head against the wall in the face of leftie hysteria, but since this is defaming our country on an int'l board i will presist.

    BULLSHIT

    this idea that Australia as a country and in its actual policy is anti-immigration and racist and that it is peaking under Howard is a complete beat up.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Australia

    i know you wont read this b/c u didn;t read my post, so here is the relevant bit.

    "The overall level of immigration has grown substantially during the last decade. Net overseas migration increased from 30,000 in 1993 [1] to 118,000 in 2003-04.[2] The largest components of immigration are the skilled migration and family re-union programs. In recent years the mandatory detention of unauthorised arrivals by boat has generated great levels of controversy.

    During the 2004-05, total 123,424 people immigrated to Australia. Of them, 17,736 were from Africa, 54,804 from Asia, 21,131 from Oceania, 18,220 from United Kingdom, 1,506 from South America, and 2,369 from Eastern Europe.[3]

    131,000 people migrated to Australia in 2005-06[4] and migration target for 2006-07 was 144,000.[5]"


    Howard has been in office since 1996. Immigration, mostly non-european has soared under his term(s) in office, so the idea we are racist and don't take in people that are different to us is plain wrong. Try looking at any pitcure of our major cities btw. We are heavily influenced by different cultures.

    Jeez. The king of mis-conceptions. Additionally on the topic of 'refugees' we are probably the world biggest taker on a per-capita basis.

    LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR: there is no issue relating to genuine refugees - most aussies support this. As the wiki article states, it is non-bona-fide "refugees" that may be for example escaping the police in tehir own contries that generate concern. UN backed refugees undergo a UN requirement of 'good character' - that is all we ask for.

    As for programs - as i alluded to we have refugee centres for newbies: no ! contra to popular belief we don't prod them with spears to see if their blood is red like ours ! We give free english lessons, currency classes, parenting and social... Also food is free there... We are sooooo mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_rydster
    What 'racist' policy did Howard implement?
    So it is clear based on the solid evidence above, that immigration and refugee intake in Aus has ECLIPSED the past labor gov't (we've a two party system) - Instead actual immigration is the freest it ever has been. I'd like to see someone contradict those firm stats.

    (but you know what, they'll most likely ignore it, like they ignored my military argument and my distinction b/w PPV and TPV 'refugees' - cos you know, one need's to actually know what one is talking about to engage in those complex debates...)

    Having said that, its true that Howard is a saavy, and some may say at times unconscionable, politician. He has to be to survive this long at the top, (for better or for worse) and to survive all those elections. But the big two are:

    1) In his early term he introduced the Wik Amendments - these damaged reconciliation w/ our aboriginies based on a lie that a recent court ruling put "every backyard" in Aus at risk of repossession by the aborigines. This was patently false. It was done to win over the uneducated and easily led-astray amongst any nation, that unfortunately worked. The farming lobby is big in this country, and many farmers were scared of native title claims, and not many trusted the high court, preferring instead legislative finality.

    2) In 1998, a right wing party called 'One Nation' proposed 0 net immigration, and other fantastic schemes like printing out money to deal with national debt. (THAT was a joke, shame i have to point it out in this company it seems). In fact, the party lead by a fish-n'-chip shop owner, of below average intelligence, was the joke. They won a not-insignificant margin (minor-party representation) in that election.

    Tampa was where refugees on a boat were refused entry to Aus, picked up by a cargo ship, 'The Tampa', whose captain insisted on bringing them to Aus. The SAS (elite soldiers) boarded the ship to force them to comply with the Aus declaration. Now most people thought this was harsh, and to legitimate the strong arm tactics, it was leaked somewhere that the refugees were throwing thier children overboard. This was 2001. In hindsight it seems that the consensus was that the 'overboard' story turned out to be a gov't lie, authorised or not.
    It was said the beat up by the gov't of 'the children overboard' story, preceeding the following election to the '98 shock of the success of the new-comer party, ended up destroying 'One Nation', and won back those people who apparently like to vote for 'hardline' policy on immigration.

    But, its just politics. Unconscionable yes. But there is beat up on both sides. The stats show an unabted trend of increasing immigration, and the 06-07 target set at an all time high of 144k.

    Comments?
    Last edited by wankski; 10-11-2007 at 02:05 AM.

  24. #24
    the_rydster
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wankski
    Comments?
    Good post.

    More logic than the likes of Spirito and other anti-Howard lefties have used in their entire PO careers.

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