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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    I have no problem with gay and lesbian couples
    The approach you are taking here suggests otherwise
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Sorry, I'm old fashioned and I believe marriage is between an man and a woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    I don't think an individual's "book" matters any more, especially in a democratic society
    One of these things is not lie the other...

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    Your entire argument of "moral decay" basically points to the fact that you have absolutely no knowledge of the depth of this issue. You're really no better than Maggie Gallagher with your phony moral outrage. And thankfully, the 9th circuit saw right through your supposed argument. Same sex marriage does no damage to hetero marriage, therefore restricting it is unconstitutional. And a damn right decision it is.

    If you think withholding all of the following from gay couples because "marriage is man/woman" isn't a violation of their rights, I'd love to know what you consider an actual violation of civil rights:
    Than they would and should petition the court to have "civil union" modified to accomidate a life style choice so they can be elligible for those benefits I agree they should have. Leave the definition of marriage alone.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    I didn't make the rules that's why we have the Supreme Court to sort things out. Your beef is with them not me.
    You said that a lifestyle choice shouldn't be the basis for a civil right. But immediately prior to that you listed lifestyle choices as civil rights issues. You can't really blame the SC for that. Nor can you blame the SC for your opinion on what should be the basis for civil rights. So, no, my beef is actually with you.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Than they would and should petition the court to have "civil union" modified to accomidate a life style choice so they can be elligible for those benefits I agree they should have. Leave the definition of marriage alone.
    Why should they be obliged to live by your standards?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by coreyb View Post
    You don't think a lifestyle choice should be considered a civil rights issue, except for the lifestyle choices that you think should be civil rights issues.
    I didn't make the rules, that's why we have the Supreme Court to sort things out. Your beef is with them not me.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Than they would and should petition the court to have "civil union" modified to accomidate a life style choice so they can be elligible for those benefits I agree they should have. Leave the definition of marriage alone.
    What evidence do you have to prove that "marriage" would be damaged by allowing everyone (including gay couples) to partake in it?

    What about open marriages? Do you feel they should be excluded because they mutually choose to allow other partners into their "one man, one woman" marriage?
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    I didn't make the rules, that's why we have the Supreme Court to sort things out. Your beef is with them not me.
    Yet you'll cry foul if SCOTUS DID vote in favor of gay marriage, wouldn't you?

    Tolerance at its best folks.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    It doesn't, at least to me. What does matter is people or special interest groups trying to rewrite history or modify historic documents to satisfy their agenda that I'm against.
    What's striking about the same-sex marriage debate (other than the fact that it's still going on) is how willfully some people declare to the world that they're ignorant bigots.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    I didn't make the rules, that's why we have the Supreme Court to sort things out. Your beef is with them not me.

    Shouldn't even be up to them. Government should have ZERO say in who someone can and can't marry.
    ~ Long Live Long Rides~

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Than they would and should petition the court to have "civil union" modified to accomidate a life style choice so they can be elligible for those benefits I agree they should have.
    Wouldn't this be open to the same sort of fraud you insist would happen if they could call their arrangement marriage?

    This certainly makes it seem that your claims of moral decay is directly related to bias against gays

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post
    Why does it matter what some Middle Eastern fanatic wrote?
    This x1000000
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    What civil rights are they being denied? They are not being discriminated against for race, creed, color, or religion. I don't think a lifestyle choice would be considered civil rights?
    The 'lifestyle choice' argument has always amused me.

    Buying a sports car is a 'lifestyle choice'. But what guy, on a whim, wakes up one day and says to himself, "Gee, I've suddenly decided to start having sex with men. Why? Oh, no reason, just feel like trying it out..."???

    Only in social/religious conservative fantasies do such ppl exist in any real numbers. But most gay folks I've talked to knew they were different from their early teenage years onwards... how early they acted on it was dependent on how willing they were to deal with the peer abuse and societal/family rejection this might cause.

    'Lifestyle' had little to do with it. But if you're going to think that way, I'd say that 'Conservative fundamentalist Christian' is then a 'lifestyle choice' too, at least for some ppl, as I've seen folks who've suddenly gone that route.
    .
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  13. #88
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    I really don't understand why people get so worked up over the gay marriage thing. It isn't like gay people are going to force straights to marry them. Why should anyone care who is doing what with whom? (consenting adults here, people...) I think the people who worry so much about what gays are doing with each other are the real perverts; not the gay people they attack and obsess about.
    Other countries need to stop hatin' or we'll unfriend them. - Christine

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Nope, not at all. I have no problem with gay and lesbian couples, I wish them all the happiness in the world. I do have a problem with the idea of redefining the meaning of marriage. I want them to enjoy all the "perks" of married life, but can't they name it something else? Sorry, I'm old fashioned and I believe marriage is between an man and a woman.
    "Old-fashioned" is the new "Bigoted".
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRoebuck View Post
    What's striking about the same-sex marriage debate (other than the fact that it's still going on) is how willfully some people declare to the world that they're ignorant bigots.
    This. OMG this. I may make it my new tag line I like it so much.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    Yet you'll cry foul if SCOTUS DID vote in favor of gay marriage, wouldn't you?
    Yup, you can BANK ON THIS from all and sundry social and religious cons, If the SCOTUS rules in favor of gay marriage someday.

    We can all picture it, can't we?:

    "How DARE the Supreme Court thwart the will of the people? They're not even elected!"

    "It was a 5-4 ruling! In other words, one of their bad ones."

    "Activist judges who defy our Constitution should be REPLACED!"


    And on and on and on, best translated as 'buttheart crying because the SCOTUS did not AGREE WITH ME!...'

    Some ppl are just afraid of the 21st century. But if they were to hang out with gay folks for any length of time, they'd quickly see that gay relationships are just like straight ones... same good stuff, and same bullchit.
    .
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    What civil rights are they being denied? They are not being discriminated against for race, creed, color, or religion. I don't think a lifestyle choice would be considered civil rights?
    It's not a choice.

    When did you choose how tall you would be?

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Yup, you can BANK ON THIS from all and sundry social and religious cons, If the SCOTUS rules in favor of gay marriage someday.

    We can all picture it, can't we?:

    "How DARE the Supreme Court thwart the will of the people? They're not even elected!"

    "It was a 5-4 ruling! In other words, one of their bad ones."

    "Activist judges who defy our Constitution should be REPLACED!"


    And on and on and on, best translated as 'buttheart crying because the SCOTUS did not AGREE WITH ME!...'

    Some ppl are just afraid of the 21st century. But if they were to hang out with gay folks for any length of time, they'd quickly see that gay relationships are just like straight ones... same good stuff, and same bullchit.
    .
    What is all this nonsense? People on that side are perfectly accepting of supreme court rulings. (See: Roe v Wade.)
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    Yup, you can BANK ON THIS from all and sundry social and religious cons, If the SCOTUS rules in favor of gay marriage someday.

    We can all picture it, can't we?:

    "How DARE the Supreme Court thwart the will of the people? They're not even elected!"

    "It was a 5-4 ruling! In other words, one of their bad ones."

    "Activist judges who defy our Constitution should be REPLACED!"


    And on and on and on, best translated as 'buttheart crying because the SCOTUS did not AGREE WITH ME!...'

    Some ppl are just afraid of the 21st century. But if they were to hang out with gay folks for any length of time, they'd quickly see that gay relationships are just like straight ones... same good stuff, and same bullchit.
    .
    Citizens United v. FEC... cough... cough...

    [Just food for thought, nothing more.]

  20. #95
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    My views, and mine alone, rant engaged, *so why cant you be*

    Out of all the things pulling humanity down, all the things that need to be fixed, all the countries that we need to be diplomatic with, all the money issues, the unemployment, the constant fighting, warring, killing, wasting, nation building, lobbying, stonewalling, diminishing rights, climate change, 2012, solar flares, day time TV drama, choiceles elections, over crowded schools, homelessness, "terrorist", outsourcing, *deep breath* deforestation, over taxation without representation, military industrial complex, china, iran, ECT ECT ECT.

    This, two people doing what they want, is a topic. This. Let them get married and move on to something truly crushing society. There are so many things, that need to be addressed, and people care what other people are doing in their beds? How, who has the mental fortitude to worry about all those things and still care what some people chose to do with their lives? We all die eventually, one day you wont be here any more, its a short time, and you care, what two people do, in bed.

    *nothing here was directed at any one. it was simply my rant. I also understand many of the things are not really threatening us, which is why they were included. Because I feel they are more threatening then something that is not threatening at all. I would also like to point out that I am not suggesting that churches accommodate them. That is their own choice.

  21. #96
    I see trees of green
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    You think gay folks wake up one morning and decide "I'm going to be gay today. You know, I haven't suffered any ridicule, heard any epithets or been discriminated against enough in my life, so I think I'll be gay."

    Being gay is no different than being any other minority: it's a trait you are born with and live with, not a choice.
    I'm not sure why the choice question should be entertained by arguing with him about whether it is or isn't a choice.

    Whether or not there is any choice involved makes no difference in this issue. It's just a red herring.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    What civil rights are they being denied? They are not being discriminated against for race, creed, color, or religion. I don't think a lifestyle choice would be considered civil rights?
    Lifestyle rights and civil rights are not mutually exclusive categories.

    For example, I'd say marrying outside of one's religious or racial group is a lifestyle choice. I'd also say it's a matter of civil rights.

  23. #98
    I see trees of green
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    Freedom of Choice

    Quote Originally Posted by il sogno View Post
    It's not a choice.

    When did you choose how tall you would be?
    There are bisexuals who choose whether to pair-bond with someone of the same or opposite sex. Choice is irrelevant to the question of whether same sex people have the right to marry.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    I'm wondering if this has more to do with tax fraud, abuse of federal benefits, and insurance fraud more so than love and the family unit? I do see plenty of opportunity for fraudulent acts here. The government has a hard enough time policing "marriage of convenience" cases. It would be insane and throw another dimension on same sex "marriage" abuse cases. Sorry, this is to close to total lawlessness for society to handle.
    Excellent point. I hear voter fraud is also a serious and growing issue, so to curtail crime and lawlessness and to bow to tradition I make a motion that we return to only allowing white, male land owners the right to vote. We can trace the beginning of the moral decay of this country to our abandoning of that tradition.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Whoever invented marriage.
    You don't know the answer to this question but you're pretty adamant about the rules of engagement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Marriage is between a man and a women. Why lower the bar and open the door for more moral decay and fraud? And really, no one's "civil rights" are be violated because there is oposition to same sex marriage. Using that excuse is worse than using the race card.
    I've seen more examples of lowering the bar from the "straight crowd" than anyone else. One church it was the choir director another it was the pastor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    Yet another government created "right".
    Government created the problem in the first place by requiring permission from the government to marry, and then tying certain things to that permission.
    Good point, a marriage is a commitment between two people and the state has no business making it their business. What those two people make of their marriage is up to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Gotta start somewhere. Best to catch a cancer and cut it out before it grows.
    Ya, good ol' boys never said this during the civil rights days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    I didn't make the rules, that's why we have the Supreme Court to sort things out. Your beef is with them not me.
    So marriage was invented by ??? to be regulated by divorced politicians, and ultimately ruled upon by 9 people that make the rules. Sound great until these same entities want to take away your bullets right?

    I love your Chinese menu approach to life, You take a little from column A and a little from column B, choose your soft drink and you're ready to tell everyone of how righteousness works.

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