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  1. #1
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    Can you answer this question about Feinstein's or anyone else's focus ?

    With less than 2% of the total number of civilian owned weapons being some type of weapon that the politicians describe as an assault weapon, why is the focus on these specific weapons, as if the banning of them will result in a reduction in crime?

    In 2010, according to this blogger, “How Many People Are Murdered With Assault Weapons Each Year?” | Extrano's Alley, a gun blog, and the FBI's UCR, it is fair to say that less than 1% of the murders committed in the US were committed with this type of gun. You can take a look at the FBI's numbers here, FBI — Expanded Homicide Data, and you are welcome to do your own calculations. If you check the numbers, though, the blogger is on the mark stat-wise.

    You can draw your conclusions, but a serious critique of the "politically correct" approach to crime reduction should be employed.

    Guns that are "responsible" for roughly 10-25 murders out of almost 9,000 are specifically targeted. WHY?


    Here is the list of 157 makes and models of banned guns:

    RIFLES:

    All AK types, including the following: AK, AK47, AK47S, AK–74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR–47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK–47, VEPR, WASR–10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AKS.

    All AR types, including the following: AR–10, AR–15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15–T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR–70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R–15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR–15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K–1, K–2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT–9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK–91, HK–93, HK–94, HK–PSG–1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub–2000, SU–16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE–57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR–48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M–14/20CF.

    All Thompson rifles, including the following: Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1–C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.

    PISTOLS:

    All AK–47 types, including the following: Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK–47 pistol, HCR AK–47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK–47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK–47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol.

    All AR–15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR–15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR–15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR–15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP–9 and MP–45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB–10, TEC–22 Scorpion, TEC–9, and TEC–DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol.

    The following MAC types: MAC–10, MAC–11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M–11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre.

    All Thompson types, including the following: Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5.

    All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.

    SHOTGUNS:

    Franchi LAW–12 and SPAS 12

    All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP–01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.

    BELT-FED FIREARMS:

    All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms including TNW M2HB.


    Read more: MILLER: Feinstein's list of 157 banned guns - Washington Times
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

  2. #2
    xxl
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    Similarly, fragmentation grenades (technically "explosives") resulted in four non-combat deaths in the United States last year, but I'm not allowed to own them?

    I could easily construct my own fragmentation bomb, using readily available materials, so what good does banning them even do?

    Don't they know that grenades don't kill people? (People with grenades kill people.)

  3. #3
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    Feinstein is using the wrong approach ... don't ban/regulate (like Congress did in 1934/38).

    Would have been more productive for legilsation to achieve what most gun owning/NRA members and Americans believe is long overdue --- applying the Reagan Trust but Verify Doctrine to the 2nd Amendment.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  4. #4
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    Most car crashes under 80 mph. Nonetheless, cops enforce 80 mph speed limits because potential for accidents increases exponentially if one drives 120 mph.

    Similarly, guns capable of shooting off multiple rounds in seconds and high capacity magazines can kill way more people than pistols and small capacity magazines, as the last four mass shootings have dramatically illustrated.

    Mass shootings are a distinct problem separate from inner city random murders. Make of that what you want, but its the reason behind the wish to ban assault weapons.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Similarly, fragmentation grenades (technically "explosives") resulted in four non-combat deaths in the United States last year, but I'm not allowed to own them?

    I could easily construct my own fragmentation bomb, using readily available materials, so what good does banning them even do?

    Don't they know that grenades don't kill people? (People with grenades kill people.)
    Grenades, which experience and research would deem an ultradestructive and indiscriminate military device, are not analogous to semi-automatic firearms.

    Why do you want to eliminate the ability of law-abiding gun owners to own, purchase, transfer, the weapons that Feinstein has listed?

  6. #6
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker1656 View Post
    Grenades, which experience and research would deem an ultradestructive and indiscriminate military device, are not analogous to semi-automatic firearms.

    Why do you want to eliminate the ability of law-abiding gun owners to own, purchase, transfer, the weapons that Feinstein has listed?
    Hey, grenades don't kill people, people kill people, right?

    Grenades are weapons, firearms are weapons; as long as they're in the right hands, no worries. Why do you want to eliminate the ability of law-abiding grenade owners to own, purchase, transfer, etc., those?

    But if you want to say they're not analogous, then neither are autos, or bicycles, yet folks here have tried to draw similar analogies between those things and firearms.

  7. #7
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    Both qnalogies
    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Hey, grenades don't kill people, people kill people, right?

    Grenades are weapons, firearms are weapons; as long as they're in the right hands, no worries. Why do you want to eliminate the ability of law-abiding grenade owners to own, purchase, transfer, etc., those?

    But if you want to say they're not analogous, then neither are autos, or bicycles, yet folks here have tried to draw similar analogies between those things and firearms.

    Neither analogy is a serious proposal but is being used to illustrate the foolishness of the other side's argument. So round and round we go............

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Both qnalogies


    Neither analogy is a serious proposal but is being used to illustrate the foolishness of the other side's argument. So round and round we go............
    so wy not cut through the crap? weapons are already restricted. the second amendment is already restricted. all that is up for debate is where the line is.
    Blows your hair back.

  9. #9
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Both qnalogies


    Neither analogy is a serious proposal but is being used to illustrate the foolishness of the other side's argument. So round and round we go............
    ONE side of that argument seems to think that any restriction on gun ownership is verboten.

    I can't speak for the ban-all-the-guns set, not being one, but it seems we ought to be able to look at gun regulations without being assumed "gun grabbers."

  10. #10
    xxl
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    This just so badly needs to be posted:



    It's Barack Obama, taking aim at your Second Amendment rights.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    so wy not cut through the crap? weapons are already restricted. the second amendment is already restricted. all that is up for debate is where the line is.
    Then why don't you campaign for enforcement of those regulations rather than outlawing them piecemeal?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    This just so badly needs to be posted:



    It's Barack Obama, taking aim at your Second Amendment rights.
    Had you noticed that he uses a compensator/muzzle brake, one of those evil things that define an assault weapon?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Hey, grenades don't kill people, people kill people, right?

    Grenades are weapons, firearms are weapons; as long as they're in the right hands, no worries. Why do you want to eliminate the ability of law-abiding grenade owners to own, purchase, transfer, etc., those?

    But if you want to say they're not analogous, then neither are autos, or bicycles, yet folks here have tried to draw similar analogies between those things and firearms.
    You are welcome to create an analogy between guns and grenades, but the anology doesn't translate in regard to the removal of a permissable small arm in response to crime. Grenades are designed for a specific purpose, that is not identical, although similar to the purpose of small arms. Simply pointing out that their possession is controlled does not follow with justification for the restriction of arms designed for a different purpose.

    Again, what is your purpose in banning the legal ownership of Feinstein's list of weapons?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    campaign for enforcement of [existing] regulations
    Which regulations are not enforced?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
    Which regulations are not enforced?
    If they are enforced and working then what is the complaint?

  16. #16
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Had you noticed that he uses a compensator/muzzle brake, one of those evil things that define an assault weapon?
    How does that define an assault weapon?

    I thought that one of the problems of "assault weapon" is that it isn't specifically defined (like, say, "automatic" weapons.)

  17. #17
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker1656 View Post
    You are welcome to create an analogy between guns and grenades, but the anology doesn't translate in regard to the removal of a permissable small arm in response to crime. Grenades are designed for a specific purpose, that is not identical, although similar to the purpose of small arms. Simply pointing out that their possession is controlled does not follow with justification for the restriction of arms designed for a different purpose.

    Again, what is your purpose in banning the legal ownership of Feinstein's list of weapons?
    Gee, how does the analogy not translate?

    Gun are for killing, as are grenades.

    Both can be for defense. Both are dangerous in the wrong hands.

    What's the difference for you, that you can ban grenade ownership, but not select firearms?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    How does that define an assault weapon?

    I thought that one of the problems of "assault weapon" is that it isn't specifically defined (like, say, "automatic" weapons.)
    I have no idea, in that respect it's like the other features that are said to be too dangerous for the public at large. Bayonet lugs, pistol grip (which Obama's shotgun also has) flash suppresser and muzzel brake. A nce list of meaningless crap that takes the focus off the fact that they are SEMI-auto rifles.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Then why don't you campaign for enforcement of those regulations rather than outlawing them piecemeal?
    banana.
    Blows your hair back.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    If they are enforced and working then what is the complaint?
    It's one of the things that gun proponents often say: Enforce existing regulations before imposing new regulations.

    I wondered if it has any meaning; i.e., are there existing regulations that if enforced could have an impact on reducing gun violence? I was asking for an example.

    The counter proposal is that new regulations are required.

  21. #21
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    Why can't I own a 20mm autocannon??

    1) I plan to use it for hunting.
    2) It's too heavy to carry into a school
    3) It would show how manly I am.
    4) It's never used in "drive by shootings".
    5) It's for "home defense"
    6) How many murders have been committed with autocannons?
    7) They are much more safer than the 40mm versions.
    8) Chicks dig 'em.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Can you answer this question about Feinstein's or anyone else's focus ?-autocannon.jpg  
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

    I>U

    Buying parts to hang on your bike is always easier than getting fit.

    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

    If Jesus had a gun, he'd be alive today!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
    It's one of the things that gun proponents often say: Enforce existing regulations before imposing new regulations.

    I wondered if it has any meaning; i.e., are there existing regulations that if enforced could have an impact on reducing gun violence? I was asking for an example.

    The counter proposal is that new regulations are required.
    Why will new regulations work? That path isn't working with drugs and didn't work with guns when it was tried.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Gee, how does the analogy not translate?

    Gun are for killing, as are grenades.

    Both can be for defense. Both are dangerous in the wrong hands.

    What's the difference for you, that you can ban grenade ownership, but not select firearms?
    The difference is one is considered an ultradestructive indiscriminate military tool, the other is a gun.

    You mentioned it as if it was sufficient to justify the banning of semi-auto firearms.

    A blunt object can be used for defense, and is dangerous in the wrong hands. So, that doesn't help you.

    Gee, if the fact that grenades are prohibited is your justification for banning Feinstein's list of guns, then the fact that grenades are prohibited should be sufficient for justifying the banning of all guns. Your attempted analogy is an oversimplification that fails.

    If you are not a proponent of banning guns, then state your position. Again, what is your purpose in banning legal ownership of her list of weapons?

  24. #24
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    I have no idea, in that respect it's like the other features that are said to be too dangerous for the public at large. Bayonet lugs, pistol grip (which Obama's shotgun also has) flash suppresser and muzzel brake. A nce list of meaningless crap that takes the focus off the fact that they are SEMI-auto rifles.
    Not to quibble, but that doesn't look like a pistol grip on his skeet-piece, just a regular grip.

    Wait, you mentioned "Semi-auto"; I'm getting lost here. The Prez is holding a shotgun, not a rifle, yes?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker1656 View Post
    The difference is one is considered an ultradestructive indiscriminate military tool, the other is a gun.

    You mentioned it as if it was sufficient to justify the banning of semi-auto firearms.

    A blunt object can be used for defense, and is dangerous in the wrong hands. So, that doesn't help you.

    Gee, if the fact that grenades are prohibited is your justification for banning Feinstein's list of guns, then the fact that grenades are prohibited should be sufficient for justifying the banning of all guns. Your attempted analogy is an oversimplification that fails.

    If you are not a proponent of banning guns, then state your position. Again, what is your purpose in banning legal ownership of her list of weapons?
    Grenades are what they are said to be, the assault weapons on that list are not.

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