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  1. #1
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    China gets the copper mine and the US gets the shaft?

    Why are we borrowing money from China to keep a growing military force in Afghanistan? Why is the US sending it's young men there possibly to die and when the Chinese aren't pitching in but will exploit the people, mineral resources and environment of Afghanistan? How long can we afford to keep playing the game like this without the Chinese owning everything including the US in the end? Aren't we being played for fools?

    China taps huge copper reserves in Afghanistan

    WASHINGTON — At a former al-Qaida stronghold southeast of the Afghan capital, a state-owned Chinese company is at work on a $3 billion mine project to tap one of the world's largest unexploited copper reserves, a potential financial boon for an impoverished country mired in war. The promise of a bright future at Aynak, however, cannot conceal the troubling reality of how business is often done in Afghanistan, according to critics of the Kabul government's decision to reject bids from competitors in the U.S., Canada and other countries. The bidding process unfairly favored China, they allege, and epitomized the back-room deals and abuse of power that has turned Afghans against their government and undercut the U.S. military effort there.

    Corruption and graft long have been ingrained in Afghanistan's public institutions. Yet the extent of this corrosion has taken on new significance as the White House considers expanding the U.S. commitment to a war unsupported by a growing number of Americans. Widespread fraud in Afghanistan's presidential election in August has raised doubts about how quickly a stable and credible government can be installed. A U.N.-backed commission threw out nearly one-third of President Hamid Karzai's votes, setting the stage for a Nov. 7 runoff.

    In his recent assessment of the situation in Afghanistan, the top U.S. commander warned that unchecked corruption has led alienated Afghans to support the Taliban-led insurgency. Afghan officials insist the Aynak bidding was handled openly and honestly, and will create thousands of jobs. But several U.S. geologists and Western businessmen who watched the process closely disagree. James Yeager, an American geologist who advised Afghanistan's minister of mines, says a few Afghan officials dominated a secretive selection process that gave the winner, China Metallurgical Group Corp., improbably high marks over its foreign competitors. SNIP
    Last edited by rocco; 10-31-2009 at 05:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocco
    Why are we borrowing money from China to keep a growing military force in Afghanistan? Why is the US sending it's young men there possibly to die and when the Chinese aren't pitching in but will exploit the people, mineral resources and environment of Afghanistan? How long can we afford to keep playing the game like this without the Chinese owning everything including the US in the end? Aren't we being played for fools?
    It's because Obama sucks as President. Nobody stole Bush's oil out from under us and now Obama just lets the Chinese move in and take the copper. Now what will we make pennies out of?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit
    Now what will we make pennies out of?
    Zinc?

    BTW, Do we really still need pennies? They actually cost more to mint than their face value. Seems like another one of those outdated ideas that we keep wasting money on to me. The Chinese is going to take our lunch money and Doug's fork.
    Last edited by rocco; 10-31-2009 at 05:27 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocco
    Zinc?

    BTW, Do we really still need pennies? They actually cost more to mint than their face value. Seems like another one of those outdated ideas that we keep wasting money on to me. The Chinese is going to take our lunch money and Doug's fork.
    The copper mine is just a ruse, they really want the dope.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit
    The copper mine is just a ruse, they really want the dope.
    Fine. Let's stop wasting money on ineffectual military approaches to problems in a mercantile world. Clearly shooting at and bombing these people into behaving as we would wish isn't working. Apparently bribery works better and it's a lot cheaper.

  6. #6
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    No chance. The reason I assume we are outspending the rest of the world on military (baseline spending w/o consideration for the wars) is in preparation for the end game. Even Snake Bit sees and admits to as much--when resources become really scarce, we will be taking what we need just as we went petrol grubbing in Iraq. That Bush admin overlooked copper is hardly surprising--he and his buddies are all about oil. But Copper is some good sheeet. Hear its a pretty fair conductor of electriciity, and ends up in just about everything.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmexrb1
    No chance. The reason I assume we are outspending the rest of the world on military (baseline spending w/o consideration for the wars) is in preparation for the end game. Even Snake Bit sees and admits to as much--when resources become really scarce, we will be taking what we need just as we went petrol grubbing in Iraq. That Bush admin overlooked copper is hardly surprising--he and his buddies are all about oil. But Copper is some good sheeet. Hear its a pretty fair conductor of electriciity, and ends up in just about everything.

    Well then we better get on it and take that copper deposit back from the Chinese with a surprise attack before they stop lending money to us.

  8. #8
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    Talking We're getting it all!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit
    The copper mine is just a ruse, they really want the dope.
    From what I hear, we and the Europeans are getting most of it. Did you see that piece on the news the other night about the cheerleader and prom queen on LI, NY, who died of a heroin overdose? The market is flush, in large part due to increased Afghani production.. Ironically, it was at its lowest under Taliban rule. Then, after the US went in, the Taliban did an about face and are now using opium production to fund their war. And apparently, our kids are paying for it.

  9. #9
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    Copper is gold in the information age!

    Quote Originally Posted by newmexrb1
    No chance. The reason I assume we are outspending the rest of the world on military (baseline spending w/o consideration for the wars) is in preparation for the end game. Even Snake Bit sees and admits to as much--when resources become really scarce, we will be taking what we need just as we went petrol grubbing in Iraq. That Bush admin overlooked copper is hardly surprising--he and his buddies are all about oil. But Copper is some good sheeet. Hear its a pretty fair conductor of electriciity, and ends up in just about everything.
    There's a growing shortage of copper on the world market, due entirely to the communications revolution, computers, cell phones, servers, and the millions of miles of cable connecting everything. This is unprecedented in modern history. Copper is the gold of the information revolution. When the oil runs out and we're all telecommuting to work, we'll be dependent on copper. It's what all electrical wiring, connectors, switches, and printed circuits are made of. No other material does the job.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 10-31-2009 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico
    Copper is the gold of the information revolution. When the oil runs out and we're all telecommuting to work, we'll be dependent on copper. It's what all electrical wiring, connectors, switches, and printed circuits are made of. No other material does the job.

    There are plenty of other materials that do the job. Aluminum being one, gold another. Hell, in communications, haven't you heard? It's all about glass. What do you think your FiOS service runs on? WiMAX (4G) is going to render copper to most places obsolete. We'll get on just fine w/o copper I think.


    supervillain

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenB
    There are plenty of other materials that do the job. Aluminum being one, gold another. Hell, in communications, haven't you heard? It's all about glass. What do you think your FiOS service runs on? WiMAX (4G) is going to render copper to most places obsolete. We'll get on just fine w/o copper I think.
    As long as they don't take over the fiberoptics mines. if they do we'll have to nuke 'em.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit
    As long as they don't take over the fiberoptics mines. if they do we'll have to nuke 'em.

    Why wait?


    supervillain

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenB
    There are plenty of other materials that do the job. Aluminum being one, gold another. Hell, in communications, haven't you heard? It's all about glass. What do you think your FiOS service runs on? WiMAX (4G) is going to render copper to most places obsolete. We'll get on just fine w/o copper I think.

    OK... So if we don't need the copper so much but the Chinese do then why don't we flip the place, hand them the keys and get the f**k out?

  14. #14
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    Talking Yeah, fiber optic!

    Quote Originally Posted by KenB
    There are plenty of other materials that do the job. Aluminum being one, gold another. Hell, in communications, haven't you heard? It's all about glass. What do you think your FiOS service runs on? WiMAX (4G) is going to render copper to most places obsolete. We'll get on just fine w/o copper I think.
    That's what I was trying to think of, fiber optic. It has no resistance, like copper, and transmits high bit-rate data more faithfully than copper, I've heard.
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  15. #15
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    Mr. President, we must not allow... a mine shaft gap!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenB
    There are plenty of other materials that do the job. Aluminum being one, gold another. Hell, in communications, haven't you heard? It's all about glass. What do you think your FiOS service runs on? WiMAX (4G) is going to render copper to most places obsolete. We'll get on just fine w/o copper I think.
    Maybe to transmit data glass is fine. Seems like folk are forgetting that every electronic device has copper in it, including all the computers, cell phones, etc. Gold?????????? Aluminum is fine for wire, not sure about 45nm computer chips.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmexrb1
    Maybe to transmit data glass is fine. Seems like folk are forgetting that every electronic device has copper in it, including all the computers, cell phones, etc. Gold?????????? Aluminum is fine for wire, not sure about 45nm computer chips.

    The primary ingredient in a CPU is sand. Copper is used in the higher-end CPUs but the amount is minuscule. The biggest offender in a computer is the power supply and the PCB. If copper rises dramatically in price manufacturers will adjust their processes accordingly.

    This isn't going to happen because of one unproven mine in Afghanistan.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmexrb1
    No chance. The reason I assume we are outspending the rest of the world on military (baseline spending w/o consideration for the wars) is in preparation for the end game. Even Snake Bit sees and admits to as much--when resources become really scarce, we will be taking what we need just as we went petrol grubbing in Iraq. That Bush admin overlooked copper is hardly surprising--he and his buddies are all about oil. But Copper is some good sheeet. Hear its a pretty fair conductor of electriciity, and ends up in just about everything.
    Mate, as far as I can tell, the US gets less than 5% of it's oil from Iraq. Also, as far as I can tell, we pay for it just like we do everywhere else.

    If we were into stealing oil, perhaps we should invade Mexico (we get about 5 times as much oil from them as we do from Iraq) and Canada (we get about 4 times as much from them).

    Incidentally, did you hear about bush bombing the twin towers? Close as I can tell, bush never did anything that wasn't part of a clandestine conspiracy!

  19. #19
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    Now what will we make pennies out of?
    Zinc, just like we do now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(United_States_coin)

  20. #20
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo
    Mate, as far as I can tell, the US gets less than 5% of it's oil from Iraq. Also, as far as I can tell, we pay for it just like we do everywhere else.

    If we were into stealing oil, perhaps we should invade Mexico (we get about 5 times as much oil from them as we do from Iraq) and Canada (we get about 4 times as much from them).

    Incidentally, did you hear about bush bombing the twin towers? Close as I can tell, bush never did anything that wasn't part of a clandestine conspiracy!
    No conspiracy. Just grubbing--I read somethinng and perhaps it was conspiracy blogger nonsense that Iraq sits on top of the richest reserves left on the planet. There were a lot of pissed off Iraqis when the US tried to shove legislation down their throats that would ensure a sweetheart deal basically forever. Do you read the news? Any news? Practically a revolt--what two years ago. Oh and I almost forgot the Bush promise that the war would pay for itself.............How???? I'll leave it to your impoverished imagination,

  22. #22
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    Copper see's use in many industries, and has been mostly, until recently, wasted in the automobile recycling industry. Cars used to be melted down with the wiring in tact. This effectively ties up the copper in the Steel Alloy (its much harder to extract copper from Steel than from the ground), and makes a crap grade of steel (A36 structural steel, for one).

    Current projections show that we have roughly 80-100 years of copper ore left in known reserves. I would be interested to see how big this copper field is...
    "Late to bed, early to rise, work like hell and advertise." -Von Braun

  23. #23
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    So what you're saying is,

    Quote Originally Posted by BentChainring
    Copper see's use in many industries, and has been mostly, until recently, wasted in the automobile recycling industry. Cars used to be melted down with the wiring in tact. This effectively ties up the copper in the Steel Alloy (its much harder to extract copper from Steel than from the ground), and makes a crap grade of steel (A36 structural steel, for one).

    Current projections show that we have roughly 80-100 years of copper ore left in known reserves. I would be interested to see how big this copper field is...
    Known copper reserves are dwindling fast, copper is difficult to recycle, and the Chinese are taking a rich new source away under the nose of the US, making war to stabilize that source? Go USA!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico
    Known copper reserves are dwindling fast, copper is difficult to recycle, and the Chinese are taking a rich new source away under the nose of the US, making war to stabilize that source? Go USA!

    Ding, ding, ding, ding... seems like a winner to me.

  25. #25
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    F*cking Chinese. It's a shame we buy their sh*t, isn't it. Perhaps we shouldn't? Naw, that'd make too much sense.


    supervillain

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