Fair Game

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  • 12-04-2010
    surfndav
    Fair Game
    I almost puked when I saw this trailer at the theater a few weeks ago.

    [IMG]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4SLn4a5W3lY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4SLn4a5W3lY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/IMG]

    Those of you on the left who are filled with hate for President Bush need to get you facts straight if you want to make your case. Sean Penn is not your friend he's a dolt and is only making himself more irrelevant with every new project he works on. Check out the Washington Post article on the subject.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120306298.html

    This is the last paragraph form the article.

    "Hollywood has a habit of making movies about historical events without regard for the truth; "Fair Game" is just one more example. But the film's reception illustrates a more troubling trend of political debates in Washington in which established facts are willfully ignored. Mr. Wilson claimed that he had proved that Mr. Bush deliberately twisted the truth about Iraq, and he was eagerly embraced by those who insist the former president lied the country into a war. Though it was long ago established that Mr. Wilson himself was not telling the truth - not about his mission to Niger and not about his wife - the myth endures. We'll join the former president in hoping that future historians get it right."
  • 12-04-2010
    88 rex
    1) I really don't like Sean Penn, like not at all.

    2) "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" was based on an actual event.......that never even remotely happened either.

    3) It's just a movie. You could make your own twisted movie to counter it if you wanted to.
  • 12-04-2010
    Live Steam
    I just left a dinner party where the host and hostess were talking about this movie as if it were indeed portrayed fact. And these are educators, one a private school teacher and the other a PHD college professor. I know the movies is not where they get their news from, but many do. It's an easy outlet for propaganda.
  • 12-04-2010
    Snakebit
    I'd hit it. (don't nobody tell Sarah)
  • 12-05-2010
    surfndav
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Live Steam
    I just left a dinner party where the host and hostess were talking about this movie as if it were indeed portrayed fact. And these are educators, one a private school teacher and the other a PHD college professor. I know the movies is not where they get their news from, but many do. It's an easy outlet for propaganda.

    If you were to take a poll of people who say that Bush lied us into war this case would be one of the main points they would bring up. It's another case of lefties needing to rewrite the narrative of history to suit their prospective/ideology.
  • 12-05-2010
    surfndav
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Snakebit
    I'd hit it. (don't nobody tell Sarah)

    I think Naomi Watts needs a good conservative spanking and I'll volunteer for the job.
  • 12-05-2010
    AM999
    Here are some things that Pres Bush and the USA do not often get credit for.


    <script type="text/javascript" src="http://video.foxnews.com/v/embed.js?id=4443662&w=466&h=263"></script><noscript>Watch the latest video at <a href="http://video.foxnews.com">video.foxnews.com</a></noscript>


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  • 12-05-2010
    Live Steam
    Yeah I got the whole Bush lied to get us into war last night. I didn't let the conversation last long. I changed the subject before it got heated. I know these people for 45 years, and they're libs, but we're still friends :)
  • 12-05-2010
    Fredrico
    Let's say he "misinformed"
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by surfndav
    If you were to take a poll of people who say that Bush lied us into war this case would be one of the main points they would bring up. It's another case of lefties needing to rewrite the narrative of history to suit their prospective/ideology.

    So there was Colin Powell at the UN waving aerial photos of some trailers, "WMDs!" "Missile parts!" "Nuclear reactor parts!" But the UN inspectors weren't finding any! 8 years later, we still haven't found any!

    And here's Joe Wilson coming back from Nigeria and saying, "Forget it! You won't find any smoking guns there!" No "yellow cake" deals. The aluminum rod thing never went anywhere, either. And the administration, desperately looking for an excuse to make war, turned it into a political issue, giving away Valerie Plame's secret identity in the process, sacrificing poor Scooter Libby to cover up their nefarious plans! Cheney on up should have been tried! If they still believed Sadaam had WMDs and budding nuclear capability after this evidence to the contrary, they were either fools, or intent on making war anyway.

    As far as Hollywood, remember Oliver Stone's "JFK?" Script writers seldom come up with fiction that's nearly as interesting as the facts, and the real motivations surrounding the actions. I always liked Costa Gavras' "Z." He didn't oversimplify the players into heroes and villains, like the Hollywood guys think they have to do. They don't think viewers can deal with ambiguity. :shocked: Same with GW Bush and his war in Iraq.
  • 12-05-2010
    MR_GRUMPY
    Are you claiming that Plame wasn't "punished" by the Bush team, who were trying to ram a war through?

    Are you claiming that Plame and her husband were wrong about the atomic program.......or are you claiming that they were wrong to speak up about this FACT.

    Movies are movies. They try to get the basic story right, but after that, filling in the spaces is "Fair Game".

    They even got the basics of the movie "W" right.
  • 12-05-2010
    spyderman
    Awe, your wittle tummy got all upset... Imagine how all the people who've died felt?

    What would you call promoting misinformation? Telling the truth?

    Dick Cheney's pressuring the CIA for intel then it promoting through the NY Times and Sunday talking heads...

    Seems like you have selective memory... Aka, The Bush Syndrome.
  • 12-05-2010
    AM999
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    Are you claiming that Plame wasn't "punished" by the Bush team, who were trying to ram a war through?

    Are you claiming that Plame and her husband were wrong about the atomic program.......or are you claiming that they were wrong to speak up about this FACT.

    Movies are movies. They try to get the basic story right, but after that, filling in the spaces is "Fair Game".

    They even got the basics of the movie "W" right.

    You might want to Google "Joe Wilson" and "Senate Intelligence Committee" for grins.
  • 12-05-2010
    Snakebit
    [QUOTE=spyderman]What would you call promoting misinformation? QUOTE]

    "Fair Game" maybe?
  • 12-05-2010
    88 rex
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY

    Movies are movies. They try to get the basic story right, but after that, filling in the spaces is "Fair Game".

    They only basic thing Hollywood tries to do is make money. I would argue that the basic story is almost never right......JFK. Sometimes the facts are so muddled that everyone is wrong.
  • 12-05-2010
    MR_GRUMPY
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AM999
    You might want to Google "Joe Wilson" and "Senate Intelligence Committee" for grins.


    I did. He was called "a true American Hero" by President H.W. Bush.

    In the wake of Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait, he became the last American diplomat to meet with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, telling him in very clear terms to leave Kuwait (Wilson, The Politics of Truth 107–27). When Hussein sent a note to Wilson (along with other embassy heads in Baghdad) threatening to execute anyone sheltering foreigners in Iraq, Wilson publicly repudiated the dictator by appearing at a press conference wearing a homemade noose around his neck and declaring, "If the choice is to allow American citizens to be taken hostage or to be executed, I will bring my own ****ing rope." Despite Hussein's threats, Wilson sheltered more than 100 Americans at the embassy and successfully evacuated several thousand people (Americans and other nationals) from Iraq. For his actions, he was called a "a true American hero" by President George H. W. Bush.[6] From 1992 to 1995, he served as US ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe.[9]

    A United States Foreign Service diplomat before retiring in 1998, Wilson was posted to African countries and to Iraq during the George H. W. Bush administration and later served as Special Assistant to US President Bill Clinton and as Senior Director for African Affairs on the United States National Security Council. Wilson became known to the general public as a result of his op-ed "What I Didn't Find in Africa", published in The New York Times four months after the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Wilson's op-ed documented his 2002 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) investigation into whether Iraq had purchased or attempted to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. He concluded that the George W. Bush administration twisted intelligence to "exaggerate the Iraqi threat."[11]

    The week after the article's publication, Robert Novak, in his syndicated Washington Post column, disclosed that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, worked for the CIA as an agency operative. Subsequently, former Ambassador Wilson and others alleged that the disclosure was part of the Bush administration's attempts to discredit his report about his investigations in Africa and the op-ed describing his findings because they did not support the government's rationale for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Wilson's allegations led to a federal investigation of the leak by the United States Department of Justice, to the appointment of a Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, to the CIA leak grand jury investigation, and to a major American political scandal variously dubbed by the press "Plamegate", the "Plame affair", the "CIA leak scandal", and other terms relating to the public disclosure or "leak" of Mrs. Wilson's then-classified covert CIA identity as "Valerie Plame".

    Yes, I'm sure that you would say that this is a man of "poor character".
  • 12-05-2010
    Snakebit
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    I did. He was called "a true American Hero" by President H.W. Bush.

    In the wake of Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait, he became the last American diplomat to meet with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, telling him in very clear terms to leave Kuwait (Wilson, The Politics of Truth 107–27). When Hussein sent a note to Wilson (along with other embassy heads in Baghdad) threatening to execute anyone sheltering foreigners in Iraq, Wilson publicly repudiated the dictator by appearing at a press conference wearing a homemade noose around his neck and declaring, "If the choice is to allow American citizens to be taken hostage or to be executed, I will bring my own ****ing rope." Despite Hussein's threats, Wilson sheltered more than 100 Americans at the embassy and successfully evacuated several thousand people (Americans and other nationals) from Iraq. For his actions, he was called a "a true American hero" by President George H. W. Bush.[6] From 1992 to 1995, he served as US ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe.[9]

    A United States Foreign Service diplomat before retiring in 1998, Wilson was posted to African countries and to Iraq during the George H. W. Bush administration and later served as Special Assistant to US President Bill Clinton and as Senior Director for African Affairs on the United States National Security Council. Wilson became known to the general public as a result of his op-ed "What I Didn't Find in Africa", published in The New York Times four months after the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Wilson's op-ed documented his 2002 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) investigation into whether Iraq had purchased or attempted to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. He concluded that the George W. Bush administration twisted intelligence to "exaggerate the Iraqi threat."[11]

    The week after the article's publication, Robert Novak, in his syndicated Washington Post column, disclosed that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, worked for the CIA as an agency operative. Subsequently, former Ambassador Wilson and others alleged that the disclosure was part of the Bush administration's attempts to discredit his report about his investigations in Africa and the op-ed describing his findings because they did not support the government's rationale for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Wilson's allegations led to a federal investigation of the leak by the United States Department of Justice, to the appointment of a Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, to the CIA leak grand jury investigation, and to a major American political scandal variously dubbed by the press "Plamegate", the "Plame affair", the "CIA leak scandal", and other terms relating to the public disclosure or "leak" of Mrs. Wilson's then-classified covert CIA identity as "Valerie Plame".

    Yes, I'm sure that you would say that this is a man of "poor character".

    It's a shame that he and his wife lost their way. Saddens all of us.
  • 12-05-2010
    QuiQuaeQuod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Snakebit
    "Fair Game" maybe?

    Keep talking about it, maybe it will get more than the current 7 million box office (+5 overseas). Cost 22 million to make. The more people talk, the closer it gets to break even. Sean Penn thanks you all.

    Oh, and I only quoted you to get "Fair Game" more exposure. So you can keep on helping out Sean. :)
  • 12-05-2010
    MR_GRUMPY
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Snakebit
    It's a shame that he and his wife lost their way. Saddens all of us.


    It's a shame that Bush and Cheney lost their way. Saddens all of us


    "Fixed it".





    PS. Saddam also was responsible for blowing up the Maine.
  • 12-05-2010
    AM999
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    I did. He was called "a true American Hero" by President H.W. Bush.

    In the wake of Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait, he became the last American diplomat to meet with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, telling him in very clear terms to leave Kuwait (Wilson, The Politics of Truth 107–27). When Hussein sent a note to Wilson (along with other embassy heads in Baghdad) threatening to execute anyone sheltering foreigners in Iraq, Wilson publicly repudiated the dictator by appearing at a press conference wearing a homemade noose around his neck and declaring, "If the choice is to allow American citizens to be taken hostage or to be executed, I will bring my own ****ing rope." Despite Hussein's threats, Wilson sheltered more than 100 Americans at the embassy and successfully evacuated several thousand people (Americans and other nationals) from Iraq. For his actions, he was called a "a true American hero" by President George H. W. Bush.[6] From 1992 to 1995, he served as US ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe.[9]

    A United States Foreign Service diplomat before retiring in 1998, Wilson was posted to African countries and to Iraq during the George H. W. Bush administration and later served as Special Assistant to US President Bill Clinton and as Senior Director for African Affairs on the United States National Security Council. Wilson became known to the general public as a result of his op-ed "What I Didn't Find in Africa", published in The New York Times four months after the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Wilson's op-ed documented his 2002 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) investigation into whether Iraq had purchased or attempted to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. He concluded that the George W. Bush administration twisted intelligence to "exaggerate the Iraqi threat."[11]

    The week after the article's publication, Robert Novak, in his syndicated Washington Post column, disclosed that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, worked for the CIA as an agency operative. Subsequently, former Ambassador Wilson and others alleged that the disclosure was part of the Bush administration's attempts to discredit his report about his investigations in Africa and the op-ed describing his findings because they did not support the government's rationale for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Wilson's allegations led to a federal investigation of the leak by the United States Department of Justice, to the appointment of a Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, to the CIA leak grand jury investigation, and to a major American political scandal variously dubbed by the press "Plamegate", the "Plame affair", the "CIA leak scandal", and other terms relating to the public disclosure or "leak" of Mrs. Wilson's then-classified covert CIA identity as "Valerie Plame".

    Yes, I'm sure that you would say that this is a man of "poor character".

    Just curious - what's the source for that quote ??

    I should have been more precise. Please Google: "Joe Wilson" and "Senate Intelligence Committee" at the same time.

    BTW, Fitzgerald concluded that no crime had been committed but continued on to prosecute and ultimately convict Scooter Libby for failing to accurately remember how he had found out that Ms. Plame worked for the CIA two years before his trial. Indeed Mr. Libby's own notebook was used to convict him - IIRC he remembered that the late Tim Russert had told him but per his notes it was VP Cheney. Richard Armitage from the State Dept sat silently as the entire cluster fork progressed. He was the individual who disclosed that Ms. Plame worked for the CIA to Mr. Novak.

    How can there be a scandal if no crime is committed ??
  • 12-05-2010
    Snakebit
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    It's a shame that Bush and Cheney lost their way. Saddens all of us


    "Fixed it".





    PS. Saddam also was responsible for blowing up the Maine.

    I'll have to take your word about the Maine but he was certainly responsible for blowing up the USS Stark.
  • 12-05-2010
    fabsroman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Live Steam
    I just left a dinner party where the host and hostess were talking about this movie as if it were indeed portrayed fact. And these are educators, one a private school teacher and the other a PHD college professor. I know the movies is not where they get their news from, but many do. It's an easy outlet for propaganda.

    I have caught my mom quoting me stuff from Grey's Anatomy, Lost, and other TV shows as if it is fact. That kind of stuff is utterly disturbing and my mom is generally a person that can think for herself and somebody that is intelligent. I cannot imagine what complete morons will take from a movie such as that.

    Luckily, I'm not a big Sean Penn fan either. I'll skip this one.
  • 12-05-2010
    spyderman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Snakebit
    It's a shame that he and his wife lost their way. Saddens all of us.

    It's a shame people aren't smart enough to understand that "the truth" wasn't what the Bush administration wanted to hear.
  • 12-05-2010
    Fredrico
    yeah...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    It's a shame that Bush and Cheney lost their way. Saddens all of us
    .

    And cost us billions of dollars, countless lives, and a big black eye in foreign relations. Wilson is vindicated by history. :thumbsup: Good for the movie reminding people of that, despite its inconsequential, irrelevant factual errors!
  • 12-05-2010
    MR_GRUMPY
    Has anyone come up with a reliable total "death count", for both sides, for Bush's Iraq boondoggle? (including Shia/Sunni deaths)
  • 12-05-2010
    Alpha & Omega
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY
    Has anyone come up with a reliable total "death count", for both sides, for Bush's Iraq boondoggle? (including Shia/Sunni deaths)

    The Hopkins University study, peer reviewed and published in The Lancet estimated 655,000 in 2006. Iraqi deaths.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101001442.html