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  1. #1
    Dr. Buzz Killington
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    GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Now He's Saving Lives

    Not long after his acquittal George Zimmerman is back in the spotlight, but this time he saved four people from an overturned SUV. It flipped over in the area by I-4 and SR-46, and he happened to be present right after it happened. Of course, it makes me wonder if people are willing to judge him by the good he's done in conjunction with the bad or if the good deeds don't matter to them at all.

    Zimmerman helps family out of overturned SUV - CNN.com

  2. #2
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    seeing as no one was actually injured, he didn't witness the crash, the car wasn't on fire, and he had help, i'm not exactly sure how "saving lives" comes into play here...

    also, isn't it your legal responsibility to stop and assist in a car accident if you're at the scene in most states?

    media nonsense.
    Last edited by bahueh; 07-22-2013 at 06:54 PM.
    Not banned yet.

  3. #3
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    I don't see where any number of good deeds cancel out a mistake that Zman seems unwilling to admit/accept. Perhaps at the core he is a good guy, but he made a huge mistake that he will not own up to.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by headloss View Post
    I don't see where any number of good deeds cancel out a mistake that Zman seems unwilling to admit/accept. Perhaps at the core he is a good guy, but he made a huge mistake that he will not own up to.
    We can not say if Martin was trying to kill Zimmermann or not that night.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by headloss View Post
    I don't see where any number of good deeds cancel out a mistake that Zman seems unwilling to admit/accept. Perhaps at the core he is a good guy, but he made a huge mistake that he will not own up to.
    Lets say you are on the ground with a broken nose and the attacker on top of you beating your head into the sidewalk. So you would not use any means available to defend yourself?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue CheeseHead View Post
    Lets say you are on the ground with a broken nose and the attacker on top of you beating your head into the sidewalk. So you would not use any means available to defend yourself?
    Except the testimony was GZ injuries were not life threatening.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue CheeseHead View Post
    Lets say you are on the ground with a broken nose and the attacker on top of you beating your head into the sidewalk. So you would not use any means available to defend yourself?
    seeing as you don't know who the "attacker" was...
    Not banned yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Except the testimony was GZ injuries were not life threatening.
    So GZ was supposed to wait until he felt his physiology make the change to life threatening?
    Tis the season for all of us not hard enough to play to belittle those not hard enough to win. We are a funny lot. - dave @ November Bicycles

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinewmexico View Post
    So GZ was supposed to wait until he felt his physiology make the change to life threatening?
    Nope --- he had Florida's version of Stand Your Ground on his side to eliminate the other eye witness. Besides the fat wantabe cop pu$$y shouldn't have been out staking teenagers, who once threatened in the dark, then exercise their Stand Your Ground rights.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  10. #10
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    What if he was just trying to protect himself from some pervert that was following him.
    What if the Z-man likes to have secks with young black men.
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    (We only have one version of what went on)
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  11. #11
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    Except Florida Law does not require that the injury actually have to be life threatening. 1 you only need a reasonable belief. 2 there is no need to actually see a deadly weapon.

    All that matters in Z's case is Florida State law. In reading Florida State law in detail (including teh SYG law) I now see why the Police essentially said "try manslaughter if you want to charge him but we do not think we have that either" because of how Florida State Law is written.

    here are some tid bits... in most states Sefl defense is something the Defense must prove. In Florida there is actually a self defense IMMUNITY law,

    A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
    and this one is really good...

    The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
    sub section 1 reads

    A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
    776.012

    However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
    Nothing about injury or weapons etc.

    I did not include .013 or .031 because these have to do with trespassing being in ones' home etc.

    So where in most States the Defense has to prove that it was Self defense...in Florida the State must prove it was not Self defense before they can even think about charging.

    Sorry but people need to apply the appropriate legal standard, not their personal standard.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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  12. #12
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    Can there be any wonder why its common practice now for the drug dealers and gang banger to use Stand Your Ground to continue their crime syndicates?




    Quote Originally Posted by badge118 View Post
    Except Florida Law does not require that the injury actually have to be life threatening. 1 you only need a reasonable belief. 2 there is no need to actually see a deadly weapon.

    All that matters in Z's case is Florida State law. In reading Florida State law in detail (including teh SYG law) I now see why the Police essentially said "try manslaughter if you want to charge him but we do not think we have that either" because of how Florida State Law is written.

    here are some tid bits... in most states Sefl defense is something the Defense must prove. In Florida there is actually a self defense IMMUNITY law,



    and this one is really good...



    sub section 1 reads



    776.012



    I did not include .013 or .031 because these have to do with trespassing being in ones' home etc.

    So where in most States the Defense has to prove that it was Self defense...in Florida the State must prove it was not Self defense before they can even think about charging.

    Sorry but people need to apply the appropriate legal standard, not their personal standard.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  13. #13
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    Not commenting on that issue trout...only on what the law says. The Jury can only decide on the law. They performed their duty well and in the eyes of Fl state law it was a just verdict. Applying other standards does the Jurors a great disservice...

    oh btw where are all these drug dealers claiming SYG of which you speak. I have been looking hard and have not found a case as such yet.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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  14. #14
    Pathlete and Pedalphile
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    If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by badge118 View Post
    Not commenting on that issue trout...only on what the law says. The Jury can only decide on the law. They performed their duty well and in the eyes of Fl state law it was a just verdict. Applying other standards does the Jurors a great disservice...

    oh btw where are all these drug dealers claiming SYG of which you speak. I have been looking hard and have not found a case as such yet.
    A bad law is a bad law --- I agree with you on that. And of course I'm not complaining about the jury --- one of them has already spoken out they were screwed by the bad Florida law.

    And here an example of a drug dealer using SYG to legally murder two people in Florida.

    Drug dealer used 'stand your ground' to avoid charges in two killings | Tampa Bay Times
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  16. #16
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    GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Now He's Saving Lives

    Quote Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    Not long after his acquittal George Zimmerman is back in the spotlight, but this time he saved four people from an overturned SUV. It flipped over in the area by I-4 and SR-46, and he happened to be present right after it happened. Of course, it makes me wonder if people are willing to judge him by the good he's done in conjunction with the bad or if the good deeds don't matter to them at all.

    Zimmerman helps family out of overturned SUV - CNN.com
    Well,

    Reading the responses o your OP it seems clear what the answer is.

    Internet experts with pre-conceived opinions are impervious to subsequent fact.

  17. #17
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    Okey dokey on the first bit. We are on the same page then. I think Florida's SYG law is the only one this retarded though. PA's has a few very good things. First you can cap a cop under Florida's law...technically. Second in PA you can not claim SYG if you are engaged in illegal activity...which in the case you noted would apply because he was a felon and unable to possess a firearm. Second to claim SYG outside your home you must see a lethal weapon.

    These three simple changes were made specifically because of phone calls by Fl Prosecutors to our state.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wabasso View Post
    Well,

    Reading the responses o your OP it seems clear what the answer is.

    Internet experts with pre-conceived opinions are impervious to subsequent fact.
    really? because it seems Zimmerman didn't really save any lives whatsoever...

    had he done CPR? maybe...

    had he pulled people from a burning car? probably...

    had he been a first responder? absolutely...

    none of those things happened, did they?
    Not banned yet.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chambers View Post
    We can not say if Martin was trying to kill Zimmermann or not that night.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue CheeseHead View Post
    Lets say you are on the ground with a broken nose and the attacker on top of you beating your head into the sidewalk. So you would not use any means available to defend yourself?
    You both miss my point... It was a series of decisions that Zimmermann made which led up to the end result. Personally, I think that the shooting itself was in self defense. That doesn't take the responsibility of creating the situation off of Zimmermann's shoulders. It's supposed to be the "neighborhood watch" not the "neighborhood antagonist."

    It ultimately comes down to this: Martin wasn't doing anything wrong, Zimmerman was unjustly harassing him, and he ultimately engaged Martin without any other support (and after being told not to pursue). He placed himself in a situation where deadly force may or may not have been necessary, but Zimmerman alone made a series of decisions to put him in that position.

    The fact that he is not repentant for a lost life, that need not be lost, holds more weight in my opinion than any amount of good deeds performed by Zimmerman going forward. Again, Z. might be a great guy, but he has a sort of self-righteousness to him that I'm not a fan of.

  20. #20
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    I was driving to school from work one evening and a little car was flipped on its side in the road. Someone had stopped and called 911, but the teenager in the car was trapped and freaking out. So I climbed up on the car, opened the door, asked a bystander to hold it open, reached down and pulled her up. Then she got down off the car. I continued to class.

    May I have my medal for heroism now, please?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill2 View Post

    May I have my medal for heroism now, please?
    Get in line! I saw a guy having a seizure once after falling head first on a concrete floor. There were at least ten people standing around, helplessly watching... His face was dark blue. I shoved my finger in his mouth and moved his tongue out of the airway so that he could breath. For some odd reason, this didn't make CNN?!?!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by headloss View Post
    Get in line! I saw a guy having a seizure once after falling head first on a concrete floor. There were at least ten people standing around, helplessly watching... His face was dark blue. I shoved my finger in his mouth and moved his tongue out of the airway so that he could breath. For some odd reason, this didn't make CNN?!?!
    that's nothing!! I witnessed a woman driving on the freeway a few years back who passed out in the fast lane...car hit the median divider several times before swerving right off the freeway into the grass and into the fence of an apartment building...
    stopped, called 9-1-1, ran down to her car and help wake her up, stabilize her head and neck until the ambulance arrived....the whole time her dog was freaking out in the backseat...

    can I have some media make believe too?
    Not banned yet.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahueh View Post
    seeing as no one was actually injured, he didn't witness the crash, the car wasn't on fire, and he had help, i'm not exactly sure how "saving lives" comes into play here...

    also, isn't it your legal responsibility to stop and assist in a car accident if you're at the scene in most states?

    media nonsense.
    You are incorrect on all accounts by law in California. It's liberal media nonsense to ignore the obvious. The guy stopped and helped. And it get's spun and twisted.
    Only the dead shall know the end of war.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by badge118 View Post
    Except Florida Law does not require that the injury actually have to be life threatening. 1 you only need a reasonable belief. 2 there is no need to actually see a deadly weapon.
    By that standard, any black man being followed or stopped on the street has a reasonable belief they might end up dead, no matter what they were doing. Trayvon did, after all.

    It's hard to justify a doctrine of maximum force in most ethical systems. Such a doctrine tends to escalate the use of force... by all.
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  25. #25
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    Re: GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Now He's Saving Lives

    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    By that standard, any black man being followed or stopped on the street has a reasonable belief they might end up dead, no matter what they were doing. Trayvon did, after all.

    It's hard to justify a doctrine of maximum force in most ethical systems. Such a doctrine tends to escalate the use of force... by all.
    No... Please research how reasonable belief is defined in terms of the law using a legal fiction of a "reasonable person". More law and logic...less ideology please...thank you.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

    Theodore Roosevelt

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