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  1. #1
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    Israeli Iron Dome: The best defense American taxpayer money can buy

    Who says we are not a friend of Israel? This technologically advanced missile defense system is working and saving lives. And saving Israeli lives is an American responsibility that cannot be ignored. So please don't believe the negative campaign ads that Obama and America is not the friend of Israel.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/wo...-a-rocket.html

    Because each interceptor missile costs $40,000 to $50,000, the system is designed to aim only at rockets headed for populated areas and to ignore those destined for open ground outside cities and towns.

    Israeli officials say that the cost is offset by the lives and property that are saved.

    About three years ago, Israel received $204 million from the United States to help pay for the country’s third through sixth mobile units. In February, Israel again approached the Obama administration for urgent support for four more batteries. They received $70 million immediately, and an additional $610 million has been pledged over the next three years, according to a senior official in Israel’s missile defense organization.

  2. #2
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    I was looking into that yesterday as well. Everyone that I know is going with the "why doesn't Obama do more to support Israel" line. The same people that also want to cut spending here in the U.S. My question is where do we start looking to make some cuts? The Iron Dome system is a very small piece of the pie that our country hands Israel each year, but the cost is worth looking at. I have different figures using CNN as the source:

    U.S. contribution to the Iron Dome, made in two payments = $275 million

    Cost per unit = $50 million, with 5 deployed = $250 million

    Cost per interceptor = $62K with 245 being used as of yesterday = $15,190,000

    I guess I'll aim this at the conservatives that absolutely want to cut spending, but only look to our own social policies to do it. Why is military spending so off limits when we consider cuts? It just doesn't strike me as being fair at all to show up for budget talks, refuse to increase revenue, demand a reduction to social support / domestic spending, and not only refuse to look at military spending but demand increases.

  3. #3
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    How about we gladly pay for their defense when they gladly pay US income taxes to contribute. Where along the way did we become so beholden to Israel that we're paying for their national defense with money we're borrowing from China (or printing out of thin air)? Well played, Neo Cons, well played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erj549 View Post
    Well played, Neo Cons, well played.
    The US became directly involved with the program when Obama requested that Congress approve roughly $200 million in funding, which was approved by a 410-4 vote. An additional $680 million was approved on a bill with 70 some odd co-sponsors. An additional $70 million was announced the day before Romney visited Israel. Jewish leaders gave Obama credit in speeches for his efforts to provide for their protection.

    It looks like the left may see value in defending Israel as well.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbaylor View Post
    The US became directly involved with the program when Obama requested that Congress approve roughly $200 million in funding, which was approved by a 410-4 vote. An additional $680 million was approved on a bill with 70 some odd co-sponsors. An additional $70 million was announced the day before Romney visited Israel. Jewish leaders gave Obama credit in speeches for his efforts to provide for their protection.

    It looks like the left may see value in defending Israel as well.
    There's plenty of neo con thought in the Democrat party as well. Hence our almost identical pro-intervention foreign policy stance under Obama. We'll give those brown people the freedom they deserve through explosions and high-speed metal projectiles, damn it!

  6. #6
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    True, but Iron Dome went into development as far back as 2007. I can't support a claim, but it's likely a Bush era leftover, modeled on our Patriot system. I'll give Barry O the benefit of the doubt in saying his support of the system is likely an attempt to appease the overly hawkish right.

    I mean look at how much money we've given Israel's military since Obama took over, and the right still claims he doesn't support Israel? I'd hate to see what they had to say were he to cut back on funding them further.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EuroSVT View Post
    True, but Iron Dome went into development as far back as 2007. I can't support a claim, but it's likely a Bush era leftover, modeled on our Patriot system. I'll give Barry O the benefit of the doubt in saying his support of the system is likely an attempt to appease the overly hawkish right.

    I mean look at how much money we've given Israel's military since Obama took over, and the right still claims he doesn't support Israel? I'd hate to see what they had to say were he to cut back on funding them further.
    the dumbasses on the right won't be satisfied until the US commits troops to assist Israel.

    'cause that would fix everything, ya know...
    eff all y'all...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    the dumbasses on the right won't be satisfied until the US commits troops to assist Israel.

    'cause that would fix everything, ya know...
    Why do you hate hastening the coming of the Messiah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    the dumbasses on the right won't be satisfied until the US commits troops to assist Israel.

    'cause that would fix everything, ya know...
    Wouldn't that depend on the dumbassed left now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by erj549 View Post
    How about we gladly pay for their defense when they gladly pay US income taxes to contribute. Where along the way did we become so beholden to Israel that we're paying for their national defense with money we're borrowing from China (or printing out of thin air)? Well played, Neo Cons, well played.
    We are paying for their defense, always have and always will. I don't see a problem here. Israel has been in control of US politics for decades and indirectly control policies that benefit Israel. I don't mind pumping billions of dollars into Israel as they are an asset to the US and our existence depends on them. I do have a problem using out troops to fight their wars, and oppose that option if it were ever put on the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    the dumbasses on the right won't be satisfied until the US commits troops to assist Israel.

    'cause that would fix everything, ya know...
    Yep! Unfortunately that's the GOP's mainstream logic. Sadly there are people that feel our troops are expendable and irrelevant and their lives can be needlessly squandered on petty wars. I'm against all this war mongoring.

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    Is it that saving the lives of our allies is not worthwhile but building a European style dead-end culture of entitlement is? Multiply the uprising in Greece by 100, and you have the future of the US if the free-lunch culture is allowed to grow any larger.

    I wonder how Europeans would feel now if the grandfathers of these liberals had their way in the early 40's and simply decided to ignore the plight of our allies? The entire world might now be speaking German. And yes, I know that liberals see no danger in Muslim extremists armed with Nukes.

    Quote Originally Posted by EuroSVT View Post
    I was looking into that yesterday as well. Everyone that I know is going with the "why doesn't Obama do more to support Israel" line. The same people that also want to cut spending here in the U.S. My question is where do we start looking to make some cuts? The Iron Dome system is a very small piece of the pie that our country hands Israel each year, but the cost is worth looking at. I have different figures using CNN as the source:

    U.S. contribution to the Iron Dome, made in two payments = $275 million

    Cost per unit = $50 million, with 5 deployed = $250 million

    Cost per interceptor = $62K with 245 being used as of yesterday = $15,190,000

    I guess I'll aim this at the conservatives that absolutely want to cut spending, but only look to our own social policies to do it. Why is military spending so off limits when we consider cuts? It just doesn't strike me as being fair at all to show up for budget talks, refuse to increase revenue, demand a reduction to social support / domestic spending, and not only refuse to look at military spending but demand increases.

  13. #13
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    Maybe the reasoning behind the 'gift' is that it can be considered an investment towards keeping a lid on Israel. If their population centers took hits they could drag us into a serious military conflict in which there would be no victory for us however it would end up. Not to mention the $$ costs which I'd guess could be far higher than Iron Dome.

    Too bad Obama got forced into a corner on promising full allegiance to Israel no matter what. I hope he is operating with a short leash on them.
    Beam me up, baby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starliner View Post
    Maybe the reasoning behind the 'gift' is that it can be considered an investment towards keeping a lid on Israel. If their population centers took hits they could drag us into a serious military conflict in which there would be no victory for us however it would end up. Not to mention the $$ costs which I'd guess could be far higher than Iron Dome.

    Too bad Obama got forced into a corner on promising full allegiance to Israel no matter what. I hope he is operating with a short leash on them.
    Who forced Obama into that corner?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Who forced Obama into that corner?
    Bush!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Who forced Obama into that corner?
    Moderators during the debates were among them. Assisted by media types bringing the issue up.
    Beam me up, baby.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EuroSVT View Post
    True, but Iron Dome went into development as far back as 2007. I can't support a claim, but it's likely a Bush era leftover, modeled on our Patriot system. I'll give Barry O the benefit of the doubt in saying his support of the system is likely an attempt to appease the overly hawkish right.
    That is a wild claim to make with no citation.

    So now Obama gets praised by Israel for funding the program, and in PO Bush gets blaimed for possibly creating the same program that Obama is getting praised for. Logical.

    It isn't hard to find information that states that Israel funded the first couple of missile batteries, and the US became involved in 2010.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbaylor View Post
    That is a wild claim to make with no citation.

    So now Obama gets praised by Israel for funding the program, and in PO Bush gets blaimed for possibly creating the same program that Obama is getting praised for. Logical.

    It isn't hard to find information that states that Israel funded the first couple of missile batteries, and the US became involved in 2010.
    The moderators were on HIS side.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbaylor View Post
    That is a wild claim to make with no citation.

    So now Obama gets praised by Israel for funding the program, and in PO Bush gets blaimed for possibly creating the same program that Obama is getting praised for. Logical.

    It isn't hard to find information that states that Israel funded the first couple of missile batteries, and the US became involved in 2010.
    Iron Dome: Missile defense system a game changer, Israelis say - CNN.com

    I picked up figures and the 2007 date cited from CNN. I haven't looked it up on Jane's or globalsecurity.org.

    Perhaps when referencing Bush I should have re-phrased...maybe opinion vs. claim? The thread is about Iron Dome, so yes my poast are as well.

    My position (opinion) is that we're spending too much on supporting militaries of other nations. Don't read that as being an Isaraeli specific type thing. Whatever country it may be, if we're giving them arms, or supporting their military, imo it needs to be curtailed. Our financial support should drop to somewhere on the scale between 1 & 10. I'm not saying zero, nothing at all...but let's get some things fixed here first. Once we're back on our feet, then get back to funding the militaries of the world.

    Thinking that Iron Dome was supported by the Bush administration, and seeing how closely modeled it is on our own Patriot system, isn't much of a stretch. $270 million for an Israeli program is a drop in the bucket compared to the $3 billion annually we send them.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EuroSVT View Post
    Iron Dome: Missile defense system a game changer, Israelis say - CNN.com

    I picked up figures and the 2007 date cited from CNN. I haven't looked it up on Jane's or globalsecurity.org.

    Perhaps when referencing Bush I should have re-phrased...maybe opinion vs. claim? The thread is about Iron Dome, so yes my poast are as well.

    My position (opinion) is that we're spending too much on supporting militaries of other nations. Don't read that as being an Isaraeli specific type thing. Whatever country it may be, if we're giving them arms, or supporting their military, imo it needs to be curtailed. Our financial support should drop to somewhere on the scale between 1 & 10. I'm not saying zero, nothing at all...but let's get some things fixed here first. Once we're back on our feet, then get back to funding the militaries of the world.

    Thinking that Iron Dome was supported by the Bush administration, and seeing how closely modeled it is on our own Patriot system, isn't much of a stretch. $270 million for an Israeli program is a drop in the bucket compared to the $3 billion annually we send them.
    An extra 10% isn't what I'd call a drop in the bucket. Hell take that to your employer asking for a 10% raise and characterize it as "a drop in the bucket", see how long they listen to you for.
    Man. You are all stuped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by erj549 View Post
    Why do you hate hastening the coming of the Messiah?
    I'm surprised this isn't brought up more often. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I get nervous when I see Israeli flags flying outside the local (Christian fundamentalist) mega church.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    An extra 10% isn't what I'd call a drop in the bucket. Hell take that to your employer asking for a 10% raise and characterize it as "a drop in the bucket", see how long they listen to you for.
    $270 million is not 10% of $9 billion +. The U.S. has funded the system for three years now, and at least on the books we hover at around $3 billion a year in financial aid to their military. I suck at math and this post is pre-coffee, so if I'm off...I'm ok with that.

    Our congress is tyring to approve as much as $680 million for Iron Dome for FY 13-15.
    Last edited by EuroSVT; 11-21-2012 at 05:34 AM. Reason: I can't spell?

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