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  1. #1
    ab aeterno
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    Predator control: Moronic or just idiotic?

    "The Alaska Board of Game on Sunday approved a plan to have state wildlife biologists shoot black and grizzly bears from helicopters in the middle Kuskokwim River region starting next spring to increase the moose population for local hunters.

    It marks the second time in two months that the Game Board has approved a plan to allow Fish and Game personnel to shoot grizzly bears from helicopters. The board in January approved a similar plan to have department personnel shoot grizzlies from helicopters on the North Slope to reduce predation on a rapidly declining musk ox population.

    An aerial wolf control program has been in place in Unit 19A since 2004. Private pilots and gunners with permits from the state have reduced the wolf population by at least 60 percent each year since 2005, but there has been no increase in moose numbers, according to the departmentís proposal to the board.The Game Board also adopted a proposal Sunday to allow same-day airborne hunting for black bears at bait stations in the Interior region, as long as the hunter is more than 300 feet from the aircraft before shooting."

    Fairbanks Daily News-Miner - Alaska Game Board OKs aerial bear control in Kuskokwim region

    I have real issues with predator control. The end goal is to increase moose and musk ox populations. In the case of moose they would benefit way more from increasing forage available through controlled burns to help willow and other small forage that they prefer. Any attempt to cull wolves or bears will only result in at best a temporary increase since predator numbers will trend with prey population size and density. It's a waste of state resources in hopes of getting more hunters for game guides.

    On the other hand, predator control on the north slope for musk ox populations is one of the few examples where control is scientifically sound since food availability is so limited. Musk ox main forage is tundra lichens, mosses, and small plants. These can't really be increased in abundance so eliminating predators at this time may help avoid a bottleneck in the near future or until the population is able to bounce back to historic levels. It's also interesting to note that musk ox aren't a huge source of income for guides and are not heavily hunted so any management is more centered around maintaining a natural population than inflating numbers for human consumption...
    Last edited by TheDon; 03-05-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Fecal indicator
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    based on the wildlife biology courses I took, eliminating apex predators is almost never a good idea.

    but, if they're going to do it, why not just issue more hunting permits for bear instead of using state resources for helos and marksmen....

    one method costs taxpayer money, the other generates funds and stimulates the economy (travel, guides, lodging, etc etc...)

    duh.
    eff all y'all...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    based on the wildlife biology courses I took, eliminating apex predators is almost never a good idea.

    but, if they're going to do it, why not just issue more hunting permits for bear instead of using state resources for helos and marksmen....

    one method costs taxpayer money, the other generates funds and stimulates the economy (travel, guides, lodging, etc etc...)

    duh.
    Couldn't have said it better. There seems to be no shortage of people who enjoy this sort of stuff. Jack up the charges until there aren't enough people applying to control the populations. Only justification would seem to be there aren't hunters interested in paying for this opportunity?

  4. #4
    ab aeterno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry View Post
    Couldn't have said it better. There seems to be no shortage of people who enjoy this sort of stuff. Jack up the charges until there aren't enough people applying to control the populations. Only justification would seem to be there aren't hunters interested in paying for this opportunity?
    Yep you're right, just not enough hunters to push the populations down enough so the state does the most efficient method and hunts from the air.

  5. #5
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    bears taste like chicken
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  6. #6
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    I'm pretty sure if you leave nature alone, its takes care of its own problems...

  7. #7
    ab aeterno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    based on the wildlife biology courses I took, eliminating apex predators is almost never a good idea.

    but, if they're going to do it, why not just issue more hunting permits for bear instead of using state resources for helos and marksmen....

    one method costs taxpayer money, the other generates funds and stimulates the economy (travel, guides, lodging, etc etc...)

    duh.
    Well using helos and marksmen is much more efficient than having permits especially with the remote areas we are talking about for the musk oxen where predator control can help a lot. There is currently a huge die off due to predation and copper deficiencies.

  8. #8
    I see trees of green
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  9. #9
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    Hell, from the title I thought this thread was about paedophile priests.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    That was such a weak troll attempt. 1/10 cause you got me to reply.
    So, you don't consider paedophiles predators?

  11. #11
    ab aeterno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    Hell, from the title I thought this thread was about paedophile priests.
    That was such a weak troll attempt. 1/10 cause you got me to reply.

  12. #12
    n00bsauce
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry View Post
    Couldn't have said it better. There seems to be no shortage of people who enjoy this sort of stuff. Jack up the charges until there aren't enough people applying to control the populations. Only justification would seem to be there aren't hunters interested in paying for this opportunity?
    Actually, there is a shortage of hunters and not much prospect for increasing them. Just about anybody who lives in Alaska and wants to hunt does. No increase possible there. So, tourist hunters are the next resource. It's a mighty expensive undertaking and one that Joe Sixpack won't be able to do without winning the lottery. Alaska is a fer piece for most and a big game hunting trip will cost $4,000 and up on your own and $8,000 or more with a guide. Some species, like Grizzlies, require a guide by law.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

    There are your fog people & your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said.

    "We are all ignorant about most things."
    Mel Erickson

  13. #13
    n00bsauce
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    bears taste like chicken
    Nah, more like 'possum. But cooked right it ain't bad.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

    There are your fog people & your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said.

    "We are all ignorant about most things."
    Mel Erickson

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    I I don' t think predator hunting will impact moose populations effectively, do you?
    No, not at all. If the moose shoots back than all bets are off.

  15. #15
    ab aeterno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    So, you don't consider paedophiles predators?
    I I don' t think predator hunting will impact moose populations effectively, do you?

  16. #16
    ab aeterno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    Actually, there is a shortage of hunters and not much prospect for increasing them. Just about anybody who lives in Alaska and wants to hunt does. No increase possible there. So, tourist hunters are the next resource. It's a mighty expensive undertaking and one that Joe Sixpack won't be able to do without winning the lottery. Alaska is a fer piece for most and a big game hunting trip will cost $4,000 and up on your own and $8,000 or more with a guide. Some species, like Grizzlies, require a guide by law.
    Alaska Department of Fish and Game

    Bear, goat, and sheep need a guide, but guides are used for most hunts. Black bears cost 225, grizzly 500, and musk ox are a lofty 1,100 for nonresidents, costs more if you're a foreigner. Big game guides make a killing up here

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    They don't even need to shoot back, trampling a person to death is almost guaranteed if you piss off a moose enough.
    I think there was a youtube video on this?

  18. #18
    ab aeterno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milk-Bone View Post
    No, not at all. If the moose shoots back than all bets are off.
    They don't even need to shoot back, trampling a person to death is almost guaranteed if you piss off a moose enough.

  19. #19
    ab aeterno
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    To me hunting/shooting animals from the air is inhumane and should be illegal. Then again I also have an issue with hunting if you aren't going to then use the animal you just killed for meat and possibly use the fur/hides as well.

  21. #21
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    Moose are pissy like that. Almost got me 25 years ago. She stepped out of a thicket and there was no where for me to go. Nuts were in my throat for two days.

  22. #22
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    Nah, more like 'possum. But cooked right it ain't bad.
    do bears have bacon?
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthman_1 View Post
    Moose are pissy like that. Almost got me 25 years ago. She stepped out of a thicket and there was no where for me to go. Nuts were in my throat for two days.
    scrawny, little PNW moose scared you like that? try running into an AK moose.

  24. #24
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    ehh. No desire to do either. I got lucky with a bluff charge that ended close enough I could have tickled her nose. Pretty much satisfied any desire to be near moose.

    No idea what's really going on in the OP linked article, but generally not in favor of hunting/game management from the air. When predator populations get too high, the situation is usually self correcting.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    do bears have bacon?
    YES THEY DO! It's been a while, but the last time I had bear bacon it was scrumptious!

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