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  1. #1
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    The Real Reason Conservatives Don't Engage

    Conservatives positions always contradict themselves. If they try to engage, they end up trying to explain away contradictions that can't be explained.

    Abortion - we love those little unborn children. Killing them is murder. Its horrible.

    The Contradiction - once they're born they're on their own. We wouldn't adopt one. We don't favor welfare as aid to dependent children, school lunches or tuition assistance for single parent children. We don't care if their schools are awful. Once they're born, they're someone else's problem.

    Tax Reform - The tax code is too complicated. It should be easy fill out business or personal taxes. Taxes are too high. Tax reform will lower taxes.

    The Contradiction - If you want to lower taxes you need to cut spending. Where are you going to cut? The military? Cutting waste is a joke always dredged up but never implemented because its insignificant.

    Republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility - Always sounds good. Can't be having the huge debt passed on to future generations.

    The Contradiction - As Paul Ryan just said today, he can't guarantee that the tax cut won't increase the debt. But the huge business increase resulting from the tax cut will spur the economy and reduce the debt. Except this is called trickle down economics and for the past 40 all its done is gut the middle class and make the rich richer. Last President to actually reduce the debt, a Democrat, Bill Clinton.

    Government Regulations are throttling business - get rid of government regulations and watch business boom.

    The Contradiction - the regulations the GOP wants to get rid of are all consumer protections. Sure, this will put more money in business pockets, perhaps some gets to shareholders, but consumers get screwed.

    Climate Change is a Hoax - It was invented by the Chinese as a way to screw American business.

    The Contradiction - Please. can we finally put that one to rest.

    Single Payer Health Care is Bad - Death panels, long waits for treatment, greater expense. It just bad for everyone.

    The Contradiction - Every industrialized nation has single payer healthcare and it works. Canada has it. Mexico has it. Those in the military already have it. Many veterans have it. People over 65 have single payer. Seems to be working ok for them.

    Unions Destroy American Business - Greater and greater demands forced businesses to go overseas.

    The Contradiction - Germany has strong unions. Why hasn't their economy collapsed? Since the unions were gutted, why haven't American workers salaries increased? Perhaps its because all that money went into the pockets of a few.

    America Needs a Giant Military to Ensure Your Freedom - Simple, we have to protect ourselves. People would love to take what we have. Our military is all that stands between us and ravaging hordes.

    The Contradiction - We spend more on our military than the next 6 nations combined. We have 11 aircraft carriers, no one else has more than 1. We have nuclear submarines with MIRVed missiles. Just who is going to attack us and take away our freedom? We have troops stationed in almost every nation on earth. We look more like the Roman Empire than anything else. Time we faced the fact, we are all paying to protect American business interests overseas.

    This is already too long so I'll stop here. But I'm sure you can think of lots more.

    Do GOP/conservatives have any issues where their stance is not hypocritical?

  2. #2
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    It's easy to find hypocrisy when you get to state your opponent's position in the worst possible light.

  3. #3
    No lie, man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Single Payer Health Care is Bad - Death panels, long waits for treatment, greater expense. It just bad for everyone.
    Does the VA count as single-payer?
    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners." - George Carlin

    "... we're rewarded for our ruthlessness and reprimanded for our truthfulness..." Aaron Lee Martin

    Being in the minority doesn't make you wrong, only unpopular.

  4. #4
    Pooped a refrigerator.
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    Revised PO rules: Read and understand before posting

    Now, let's see if that rule will be applied equitably.
    Ghurarmu shirkush’ agh azgushu. Zant ya apakurizak. Gűl-n’ anakhizak.

  5. #5
    Pooped a refrigerator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    It's easy to find hypocrisy when you get to state your opponent's position in the worst possible light.
    Does that qualify as a straw giant as opposed to a straw man?
    Ghurarmu shirkush’ agh azgushu. Zant ya apakurizak. Gűl-n’ anakhizak.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    It's easy to find hypocrisy when you get to state your opponent's position in the worst possible light.
    Well then why don't you state their position in the 'best' possible light.

    I'm looking forward to it!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by frons View Post
    Does the VA count as single-payer?
    Who pays? Only the US gov't. That's single payer.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by frons View Post
    Does the VA count as single-payer?
    VA is single provider, which is different from single payer.

    Here are a list of countries with single payer......and one that is not


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    Revised PO rules: Read and understand before posting

    Now, let's see if that rule will be applied equitably.
    Yes, particularly this part:

    "You are of course free to start new threads about topics*, even if those topics have also been the subject of threads that get locked, but not if the purpose of the new thread is to evade the lock on the old thread--and the judgment of your friendly moderator is the sole arbitrator of whether the new thread is an acceptable cessation-of-hostilities reboot, or a vacation-drawing violation of the rules.

    *Imagine, for instance, if a thread on gun control got locked (and lockdowns are nearly always due to poor poster behavior); we couldn't very well prohibit any future discussions on gun control in PO, simply because some posters couldn't engage in reasoned discourse on the topic."
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Yes, particularly this part:

    "You are of course free to start new threads about topics*, even if those topics have also been the subject of threads that get locked, but not if the purpose of the new thread is to evade the lock on the old thread--and the judgment of your friendly moderator is the sole arbitrator of whether the new thread is an acceptable cessation-of-hostilities reboot, or a vacation-drawing violation of the rules.

    *Imagine, for instance, if a thread on gun control got locked (and lockdowns are nearly always due to poor poster behavior); we couldn't very well prohibit any future discussions on gun control in PO, simply because some posters couldn't engage in reasoned discourse on the topic."
    So why not just temporarily lock a thread until things cool down if one can just start another on the same topic that was just locked?
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  11. #11
    xxl
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    So why not just temporarily lock a thread until things cool down if one can just start another on the same topic that was just locked?
    Assuming I've understood your question, the rule re locked threads is to keep people from dredging up posts in threads the moderators decide are over (and this is usually, but not necessarily, because posters were being dickish in the thread and irretrievably injurious to the discussion).

    But some moderators have closed threads to allow tempers to simmer down. Closing a thread isn't the same as locking a thread--that might be the source of your confusion--and threads have been closed, and then reopened after tempers simmered down.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    VA is single provider, which is different from single payer.

    Here are a list of countries with single payer......and one that is not

    we're number 37!
    and we pay waaaaayyyyy more for that top 40 finish
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    we're number 37!
    and we pay waaaaayyyyy more for that top 40 finish
    We were number 37, seventeen years ago. Hell, that chart is from the 1990's (culturally, of course).
    I lost my phone number. Can I have yours?

  14. #14
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    and to think... I didn't believe the first thread on the subject? Now I know the "real" reason... many thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    and to think... I didn't believe the first thread on the subject? Now I know the "real" reason... many thanks!
    I'm glad I could help!

    Shining a light on hypocrisy is the best way to get to the truth.

    Of course, hypocrites will choose to ignore their hypocrisy more often than not. After all, that's what makes them hypocrites.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Assuming I've understood your question, the rule re locked threads is to keep people from dredging up posts in threads the moderators decide are over (and this is usually, but not necessarily, because posters were being dickish in the thread and irretrievably injurious to the discussion).

    But some moderators have closed threads to allow tempers to simmer down. Closing a thread isn't the same as locking a thread--that might be the source of your confusion--and threads have been closed, and then reopened after tempers simmered down.
    Yes that is that what I was confused about. I didn't realize there was a difference. Thanks for answering.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  17. #17
    What the what???
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Assuming I've understood your question, the rule re locked threads is to keep people from dredging up posts in threads the moderators decide are over (and this is usually, but not necessarily, because posters were being dickish in the thread and irretrievably injurious to the discussion).

    But some moderators have closed threads to allow tempers to simmer down. Closing a thread isn't the same as locking a thread--that might be the source of your confusion--and threads have been closed, and then reopened after tempers simmered down.
    As someone who is frequently dickish in threads... you wound me, sir!
    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - MLK

  18. #18
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    We already know the answer. The talking points fall apart outside of the echo chamber so they stay in the echo chamber.

    Example of confirmational bias, check out the diverse panel of experts Klannity assembled to discuss racism


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    Revised PO rules: Read and understand before posting

    Now, let's see if that rule will be applied equitably.
    Odd how the TTP tries to shout down free speech that it does not like.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Odd how the TTP tries to shout down free speech that it does not like.
    I am thinking it's more of a comment on fairness, rather than free speech.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    I am thinking it's more of a comment on fairness, rather than free speech.
    Huh? it has already been explained to you it is within the rules.....but thanks for proving my point

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    It's easy to find hypocrisy when you get to state your opponent's position in the worst possible light.
    Still waiting for you to set me straight.

    Please, go ahead and post GOP/conservative positions in the BEST light.

    Anxiously awaiting your reply.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    and to think... I didn't believe the first thread on the subject? Now I know the "real" reason... many thanks!
    You're welcome!

    Always glad to educate a conservative with all the good stuff Fox News won't tell you.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Well then why don't you state their position in the 'best' possible light.

    I'm looking forward to it!
    I'm not going to go through all of them, but here's an example. Instead of:

    "Abortion - we love those little unborn children. Killing them is murder. Its horrible.

    The Contradiction - once they're born they're on their own. We wouldn't adopt one. We don't favor welfare as aid to dependent children, school lunches or tuition assistance for single parent children. We don't care if their schools are awful. Once they're born, they're someone else's problem."

    Instead:

    Abortion- we regard unborn children as human beings in every sense of the word. Therefore, although we recognize that there are significant burdens on the parents, we cannot condone abortion as it is the murder of a human being.

    Corollary- While not as ideal as an intact nuclear family, we recognize adoption as a good option in circumstances where a child's parents are unable to care for them. Although we do not believe in direct government assistance, we support charities and religious organizations that support children and parents in difficult situations. While we understand the appeal of government assistance, we believe it promotes economic and cultural problems in the long run that outweigh its short-term benefits, leading to more suffering in the aggregate.


    ***NOTE**** The above are not MY beliefs, but merely stating the beliefs that a pro-life Republican might express in a way that more closely resembles their thinking.

  25. #25
    Quiet, daddy's drinking
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    Quote Originally Posted by nealric View Post
    I'm not going to go through all of them, but here's an example. Instead of:

    "Abortion - we love those little unborn children. Killing them is murder. Its horrible.

    The Contradiction - once they're born they're on their own. We wouldn't adopt one. We don't favor welfare as aid to dependent children, school lunches or tuition assistance for single parent children. We don't care if their schools are awful. Once they're born, they're someone else's problem."

    Instead:

    Abortion- we regard unborn children as human beings in every sense of the word. Therefore, although we recognize that there are significant burdens on the parents, we cannot condone abortion as it is the murder of a human being.

    Corollary- While not as ideal as an intact nuclear family, we recognize adoption as a good option in circumstances where a child's parents are unable to care for them. Although we do not believe in direct government assistance, we support charities and religious organizations that support children and parents in difficult situations. While we understand the appeal of government assistance, we believe it promotes economic and cultural problems in the long run that outweigh its short-term benefits, leading to more suffering in the aggregate.


    ***NOTE**** The above are not MY beliefs, but merely stating the beliefs that a pro-life Republican might express in a way that more closely resembles their thinking.
    That all sounds good but it is not reality. Also we have already tried that model, they were called orphanages. They didn't do too well at raising well adjusted kids.

    And lastly if you really wanted to get abortions to the lowest possible number you would be handing out contraceptives on every street corner.

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