Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    12,850

    Rogue Philly Narcotics Cops

    If true, this is really sad:

    http://www.reason.com/blog/show/132736.html

    Some of the comments are pretty sad too. I never really watched the Columbine video, but the comments say that the LEO's were very slow trying to enter the building. They also say that LEO's were very slow entering the building in Binghampton, NY last month when that shooting went down.

    I'm also the one that says there are bad apples in every profession, and it is usually the small percentage of bad apples that give the good ones a bad name. That article just shocked me, so I figured I would post it here.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Modified by unknown from Bovard's original quote<o:p></o:p>

    Bikes:
    Colnago C50 ST01 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 303
    Colnago Cristallo NS03 - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Custom Wheels
    Colnago Oval Krono LX4 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 808/disk
    Colnago Arte bare aluminum - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 404
    Colnago Arte NS03 - unbuilt
    Bianchi FG Lite Liqui - 2008 Record - Zipp 202

  2. #2
    Self-Banned
    Reputation: rocco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    16,913
    Bush's fault.

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    12,850
    Quote Originally Posted by rocco
    Bush's fault.
    LOL

    Plus, today is April 15th. That means I get to ride my bike tomorrow.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Modified by unknown from Bovard's original quote<o:p></o:p>

    Bikes:
    Colnago C50 ST01 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 303
    Colnago Cristallo NS03 - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Custom Wheels
    Colnago Oval Krono LX4 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 808/disk
    Colnago Arte bare aluminum - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 404
    Colnago Arte NS03 - unbuilt
    Bianchi FG Lite Liqui - 2008 Record - Zipp 202

  4. #4
    Palm trees & sunshine!
    Reputation: KenB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    24,222
    Q: Who polices the police?

    A: Armed citizenry.


    supervillain

  5. #5
    Fat'r + Slow'r than TMB
    Reputation: jupiterrn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    10,089
    Quote Originally Posted by KenB
    Q: Who polices the police?

    A: Armed citizenry.
    In this case Ken with a group of rogue cops who are willing to set aside their honor and duties. I would say a hidden video camera is mightier than the gun.
    Just fast enough to know I am slow.

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    12,850
    Quote Originally Posted by jupiterrn
    In this case Ken with a group of rogue cops who are willing to set aside their honor and duties. I would say a hidden video camera is mightier than the gun.
    In any case with rogue cops, a video camera is probably your best weapon, followed by the gun. If you shoot an LEO, you had very well better be able to prove that your life was in imminent danger and that the LEO was indeed a rogue.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Modified by unknown from Bovard's original quote<o:p></o:p>

    Bikes:
    Colnago C50 ST01 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 303
    Colnago Cristallo NS03 - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Custom Wheels
    Colnago Oval Krono LX4 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 808/disk
    Colnago Arte bare aluminum - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 404
    Colnago Arte NS03 - unbuilt
    Bianchi FG Lite Liqui - 2008 Record - Zipp 202

  7. #7
    Palm trees & sunshine!
    Reputation: KenB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    24,222
    Quote Originally Posted by fabsroman
    In any case with rogue cops, a video camera is probably your best weapon, followed by the gun. If you shoot an LEO, you had very well better be able to prove that your life was in imminent danger and that the LEO was indeed a rogue.



    Yep. Both are good weapons to have.


    supervillain

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    934
    Quote Originally Posted by fabsroman
    I'm also the one that says there are bad apples in every profession, and it is usually the small percentage of bad apples that give the good ones a bad name. That article just shocked me, so I figured I would post it here.
    Find enough bad apples, and it's time to reject the whole shipment. Even more true with police, whose job it is to find the "bad apples". Once you've found enough bad cops, the conclusion must be that nearly all the cops are bad -- either they're involved in bad actions themselves, or they're letting the other cops get away with them.

  9. #9
    waterproof*
    Reputation: Creakyknees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    40,596
    Yeah while I'm a strong pro-gun guy, how about we go with "rule of law" before we take up arms, mmkay?

    Dallas had a big problem w rogue narc cops a few years back - they were confiscating coke and selling it for personal gain, then to keep their "quota" in line they were buying sheetrock powder from an informant (who knew all about the scam but was quiet for obvious reasons) then framing innocent Mexican illegals, who had no way to fight back.

    It finally all fell apart when some underpaid county defender actually believed one of the defendants and demanded the "coke" be tested... up to that point, nobody had bothered to see if it was real or not.
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
    * not actually waterproof.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    12,850
    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees
    Yeah while I'm a strong pro-gun guy, how about we go with "rule of law" before we take up arms, mmkay?

    Dallas had a big problem w rogue narc cops a few years back - they were confiscating coke and selling it for personal gain, then to keep their "quota" in line they were buying sheetrock powder from an informant (who knew all about the scam but was quiet for obvious reasons) then framing innocent Mexican illegals, who had no way to fight back.

    It finally all fell apart when some underpaid county defender actually believed one of the defendants and demanded the "coke" be tested... up to that point, nobody had bothered to see if it was real or not.
    What the heck happened to the Public Defender believe his/her client and asking that the cocaine be tested? That is what really bothers me. Rogue Police can take away a person's liberty. To quote Spiderman, "With great power comes great responsibility". LEO's like that should be punished most severely.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Modified by unknown from Bovard's original quote<o:p></o:p>

    Bikes:
    Colnago C50 ST01 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 303
    Colnago Cristallo NS03 - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Custom Wheels
    Colnago Oval Krono LX4 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 808/disk
    Colnago Arte bare aluminum - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 404
    Colnago Arte NS03 - unbuilt
    Bianchi FG Lite Liqui - 2008 Record - Zipp 202

  11. #11
    Self-Banned
    Reputation: rocco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    16,913
    Quote Originally Posted by fabsroman
    LOL

    Plus, today is April 15th. That means I get to ride my bike tomorrow.
    No tea bagging for you today.

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    12,850
    Quote Originally Posted by rocco
    No tea bagging for you today.
    I'm armpits deep in extensions right now. What fun.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Modified by unknown from Bovard's original quote<o:p></o:p>

    Bikes:
    Colnago C50 ST01 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 303
    Colnago Cristallo NS03 - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Custom Wheels
    Colnago Oval Krono LX4 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 808/disk
    Colnago Arte bare aluminum - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 404
    Colnago Arte NS03 - unbuilt
    Bianchi FG Lite Liqui - 2008 Record - Zipp 202

  13. #13
    Self-Banned
    Reputation: rocco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    16,913
    Quote Originally Posted by fabsroman
    What the heck happened to the Public Defender believe his/her client and asking that the cocaine be tested? That is what really bothers me. Rogue Police can take away a person's liberty. To quote Spiderman, "With great power comes great responsibility". LEO's like that should be punished most severely.

    Damn fabs, we're locked in agreement on that one. I've always thought that any public servant who swears to honestly enforce the law and uphold the constitution has a greater responsibility than a regular civilian and thus they should be punished most severely when they violate the oath by breaking the law and harming those they serve. What those rogue LEO's in Dallas did is about as low as can be. IMO, they should be locked up for life. Those guys from Philly need to go away for a long time too.
    Last edited by rocco; 04-15-2009 at 12:54 PM.

  14. #14
    jaded bitter joy crusher
    Reputation: Fredke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    19,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees
    It finally all fell apart when some underpaid county defender actually believed one of the defendants and demanded the "coke" be tested... up to that point, nobody had bothered to see if it was real or not.
    Of course, there's another layer, because there's a long history of corrupt forensic labs that testify to whatever the police want them to when stuff does go out for testing:
    The police crime laboratory in Houston, already reeling from a scandal that has led to retesting of evidence in 360 cases, now faces a much larger crisis that could involve many thousands of cases over 25 years.

    Six independent forensic scientists, in a report to be filed in a Houston state court today, said that a crime laboratory official -- because he either lacked basic knowledge of blood typing or gave false testimony -- helped convict an innocent man of rape in 1987.

    The panel concluded that crime laboratory officials might have offered ''similarly false and scientifically unsound'' reports and testimony in other cases, and it called for a comprehensive audit spanning decades to re-examine the results of a broad array of rudimentary tests on blood, semen and other bodily fluids. ... ''A conservative number would probably be 5,000 to 10,000 cases,'' Dr. Johnson said. ''If you add in hair, it's off the board.''
    Anything that doesn't take years of your life and drive you to suicide hardly seems worth doing. ---- Cormac McCarthy

    A man can get disouraged many times, but he is not a failure until he begins to blame somebody else and stops trying --- John Burroughs

  15. #15
    Self-Banned
    Reputation: rocco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    16,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke
    Of course, there's another layer, because there's a long history of corrupt forensic labs that testify to whatever the police want them to when stuff does go out for testing:
    The police crime laboratory in Houston, already reeling from a scandal that has led to retesting of evidence in 360 cases, now faces a much larger crisis that could involve many thousands of cases over 25 years.

    Six independent forensic scientists, in a report to be filed in a Houston state court today, said that a crime laboratory official -- because he either lacked basic knowledge of blood typing or gave false testimony -- helped convict an innocent man of rape in 1987.

    The panel concluded that crime laboratory officials might have offered ''similarly false and scientifically unsound'' reports and testimony in other cases, and it called for a comprehensive audit spanning decades to re-examine the results of a broad array of rudimentary tests on blood, semen and other bodily fluids. ... ''A conservative number would probably be 5,000 to 10,000 cases,'' Dr. Johnson said. ''If you add in hair, it's off the board.''

    Those people from the Houston crime lab need to go away for life too.

  16. #16
    banned
    Reputation: buck-50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    7,258
    Quote Originally Posted by rocco
    Damn fabs, we're locked in agreement on that one. I've always thought that any public servant who swears to honestly enforce the law and uphold the constitution has a greater responsibility than the a civilian and thus they should be punished most severely when they violate the oath by breaking the law and harming those they serve. What those rogue LEO's in Dallas did is about as low as can be. IMO, they should be locked up for life.
    NPR was running a story just this morning about a (5 or 10 year) study that shows, surprise surprise, folks represented by appointed counsel get significantly worse representation than folks who can afford their own- Public defenders are apparently overworked and understaffed to an enormous degree.

    As per usual in this day and age, the program that's supposed to represent the poorest among us is underfunded/staffed almost to the point of irrelevance.

    It's sad that a principle as basic to the idea of America like equality before the law is undermined by our collective dislike of paying taxes, and the poor are the ones getting teabagged. (hey! Now I see how that's supposed to work!)

  17. #17
    waterproof*
    Reputation: Creakyknees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    40,596
    btw, I find the OP to be non-credible since it's hosted at Reason mag, a well-known right wing organ.
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
    * not actually waterproof.

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    12,850
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke
    Of course, there's another layer, because there's a long history of corrupt forensic labs that testify to whatever the police want them to when stuff does go out for testing:
    The police crime laboratory in Houston, already reeling from a scandal that has led to retesting of evidence in 360 cases, now faces a much larger crisis that could involve many thousands of cases over 25 years.

    Six independent forensic scientists, in a report to be filed in a Houston state court today, said that a crime laboratory official -- because he either lacked basic knowledge of blood typing or gave false testimony -- helped convict an innocent man of rape in 1987.

    The panel concluded that crime laboratory officials might have offered ''similarly false and scientifically unsound'' reports and testimony in other cases, and it called for a comprehensive audit spanning decades to re-examine the results of a broad array of rudimentary tests on blood, semen and other bodily fluids. ... ''A conservative number would probably be 5,000 to 10,000 cases,'' Dr. Johnson said. ''If you add in hair, it's off the board.''
    That is called perjury and it definitely deserves jail time. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen people lie in Court. It makes me sick. Even when the documents do not support their position, they lie. What makes me even sicker is the lack of prosecution for perjury. We would have a lot less Court cases if people knew they couldn't blatantly lie on the stand.

    By the way, I have had a couple of LEO's lie on the stand, and I know they were lying because the charges were against me which means I was present and knew the facts first hand. The worst part about it is it was my word against the LEO's, and in one case I couldn't prove that the LEO was lying without getting myself into deeper water so I had to let it go and was found guilty of speeding and given 5 points on my license, which I appealed and got reduced to a single point. In the other case, the Judge found me not guilty. What I really do not understand is why LEO's have any reason to lie on the stand since they have no vested interest in the case. With all that said, the majority of LEO's I have dealt with have been pretty honest.

    Like I'e said before, increase funding for Courts, prisons, the State's Attorney's Office, and the Public Defender's Office. Not a single innocent person should be locked up, but the guilty ones should get what they deserve, including the perjurers.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Modified by unknown from Bovard's original quote<o:p></o:p>

    Bikes:
    Colnago C50 ST01 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 303
    Colnago Cristallo NS03 - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Custom Wheels
    Colnago Oval Krono LX4 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 808/disk
    Colnago Arte bare aluminum - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 404
    Colnago Arte NS03 - unbuilt
    Bianchi FG Lite Liqui - 2008 Record - Zipp 202

  19. #19
    Ricardo Cabeza
    Reputation: Andy69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    14,595
    wow. why do we allow these dangerous people so much responsibility?
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

    SuperAndy's Garage

  20. #20
    jaded bitter joy crusher
    Reputation: Fredke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    19,490
    Quote Originally Posted by buck-50
    NPR was running a story just this morning about a (5 or 10 year) study that shows, surprise surprise, folks represented by appointed counsel get significantly worse representation than folks who can afford their own- Public defenders are apparently overworked and understaffed to an enormous degree.
    From NY Times last November:
    Over the last three years, the average number of felony cases handled by each [Miami-Dade County] lawyer in a year has climbed to close to 500, from 367, officials said, and caseloads for lawyers assigned to misdemeanor cases have risen to 2,225, from 1,380.
    ...
    In his Miami office on a recent morning, Mr. Jones looked over a printout listing 155 current clients. He spent a frantic morning in court, handling arraignments and plea bargains for 23 offenders, a majority of whom he had never met before. His cases involve lesser felonies like cocaine possession, burglary and grand theft.

    Mr. Jones, in between hushed conversations with clients in the hallway or the holding pen, said he wished he had more time to investigate cases and could go to trial more often, rather than accepting the police version of events and then, after a short discussion, helping his clients make a life-altering deal. “I’d love to have time to visit the crime scene and do more legal research,” Mr. Jones said.
    So a lawyer represents 500 felons per year. There are about 2000 hours in a working year, so that's 4 hours per felony to meet the client, investigate, develop a strategy, and either plea bargain or argue at trial.

    For misdemeanor cases, it's less than an hour per client.
    Anything that doesn't take years of your life and drive you to suicide hardly seems worth doing. ---- Cormac McCarthy

    A man can get disouraged many times, but he is not a failure until he begins to blame somebody else and stops trying --- John Burroughs

  21. #21
    banned
    Reputation: buck-50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    7,258
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredke
    From NY Times last November:
    Over the last three years, the average number of felony cases handled by each [Miami-Dade County] lawyer in a year has climbed to close to 500, from 367, officials said, and caseloads for lawyers assigned to misdemeanor cases have risen to 2,225, from 1,380.
    ...
    In his Miami office on a recent morning, Mr. Jones looked over a printout listing 155 current clients. He spent a frantic morning in court, handling arraignments and plea bargains for 23 offenders, a majority of whom he had never met before. His cases involve lesser felonies like cocaine possession, burglary and grand theft.

    Mr. Jones, in between hushed conversations with clients in the hallway or the holding pen, said he wished he had more time to investigate cases and could go to trial more often, rather than accepting the police version of events and then, after a short discussion, helping his clients make a life-altering deal. “I’d love to have time to visit the crime scene and do more legal research,” Mr. Jones said.
    So a lawyer represents 500 felons per year. There are about 2000 hours in a working year, so that's 4 hours per felony to meet the client, investigate, develop a strategy, and either plea bargain or argue at trial.

    For misdemeanor cases, it's less than an hour per client.
    So either we need to stop arresting so many people or we need to fund the public defenders better...

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    934
    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees
    btw, I find the OP to be non-credible since it's hosted at Reason mag, a well-known right wing organ.
    Reason's a libertarian organ, not a right-wing organ (and was a much better organ under previous editor-in-chief Virginia Postrel). Anyway, if you lived in the Philly area (as I do) you got to see the story in the Philadelphia Inquirer and hear about it on the local radio news, so it's not like he's just making it up.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    934
    Quote Originally Posted by fabsroman
    What I really do not understand is why LEO's have any reason to lie on the stand since they have no vested interest in the case.
    To call what cops do on the stand "lying" is sort of misleading. It is lying, but not in the sense of deliberately misrepresenting the truth. It's in the sense that their testimony has no real relation to the truth at all. They aren't trying to recount events as they happened. They are merely trying to tell a story which leads to a conviction, filling in the details as required for any particular case.

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    12,850
    Quote Originally Posted by russotto
    To call what cops do on the stand "lying" is sort of misleading. It is lying, but not in the sense of deliberately misrepresenting the truth. It's in the sense that their testimony has no real relation to the truth at all. They aren't trying to recount events as they happened. They are merely trying to tell a story which leads to a conviction, filling in the details as required for any particular case.
    Rigggggggggggght, no matter how you want to paint it, that is called lying. If you are telling a story of events that do not fit what is in your memory of what happened, that is lying. If the story includes your version of the facts for which you have no memory of at all, that is also lying.
    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Modified by unknown from Bovard's original quote<o:p></o:p>

    Bikes:
    Colnago C50 ST01 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 303
    Colnago Cristallo NS03 - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Custom Wheels
    Colnago Oval Krono LX4 - 2008 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 808/disk
    Colnago Arte bare aluminum - 2007 Campy Record 10 - Zipp 404
    Colnago Arte NS03 - unbuilt
    Bianchi FG Lite Liqui - 2008 Record - Zipp 202

  25. #25
    Shirtcocker
    Reputation: Bocephus Jones II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    61,135
    Quote Originally Posted by jupiterrn
    In this case Ken with a group of rogue cops who are willing to set aside their honor and duties. I would say a hidden video camera is mightier than the gun.
    Yup...how well does being a cop killer ever go over no matter how justified it might be? Camera is a much better weapon. Those who only have a hammer see the whole world as a nail though.
    "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." -S. Hawking

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Sea Otter Classic

Hot Deals

Contest


Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook