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  1. #1
    Banned forever.....or not
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    Romney: Energy independence by 2020

    Seven effin years from now.........Pretty effin good...

    His plan............Drill, baby, DRILL.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The campaign for presumed Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney released a plan Thursday for North America to be energy independent by 2020.

    Touting the country's newly accessible oil and gas reserves, Romney touched on familiar themes he said would wean the country off imported oil and spark an economic boom at home. Namely, fewer federal regulations, less support for renewable energy, and more oil drilling.

    "We're not going to have to buy oil from the Middle East, Venezuela, or any other place we don't want to," the candidate said at a campaign stop in New Mexico. "We may even be an exporter of energy, considering all our resources."

    Specifically, he called for:

    -- States to have control over drilling on federal land within their borders.

    -- Placing oversight of all onshore energy developments withing the hands of the states.

    -- Opening of new offshore areas, starting with blocks off the coasts of Virginia and the Carolinas.

    -- Approval of the Keystone pipeline.

    -- Set minimum oil production targets in the government's leasing plans.

    -- Start a fast track approval process for various energy projects, including nuclear.

    -- Limiting the ability of environmental groups and others to file lawsuits.

    ************************************************** *********************************************

    Lucy, please 'splain how we ar going to get all this drillin' done, all the oil sucked out of the ground, refineries built, and oil refined and moved all over the country in seven effin years, when it took 10 years to find and kill Bin laden????



    Does Romney think that we ae moreons????????

    Does Ryan think that we are moreons??????????

    Do Reublicans think that e are moreons?????............YES.
    .
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    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
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    Buying parts to hang on your bike is always easier than getting fit.

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  2. #2
    Wave, dammit!
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    Do the math, Grumpy. It has to be 2020. Any longer and the prospect seems too far off. Any shorter, and Romney would hit the deadline before the end of a second term and would have to answer for it.
    When a cyclist in your area is injured or killed by a motorist, make an extra effort the next day to go for a ride. It doesn't have to be an organized ride, or even a long ride. Hell, ride a 15 minute loop around your neighborhood if you want.

    Just be seen riding your bike.

    Do it to make people aware we're out there. Do it to honor a fellow traveler. Do it because you're lucky enough to still be able to.

  3. #3
    Big is relative
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    How are the solar, wind, and other renewables doing under this administration? China is making a bunch of solar panels and wind towers, not so much here.

    Obama could have made a similar statement and substituted all the buzz words (renewables, etc) that make people feel good about him, but he couldn't execute it either.

    We have oil and gas reserves, we should develop them and tax the livingshit out of it to pay for new programs of renewables, nuclear, etc.
    Retired sailor

  4. #4
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    saaaayyyyy whuuuuuut.....?

    no 'clean' coal....?

    yes, and by all means, limit the public's ability to challenge effed-up energy plans....

    brilliant!
    eff all y'all...

  5. #5
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    I noticed that there was no mention about drillin' the hell out of offshore Florida......Gee, i wonder why that is???????....Ha.
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    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

    I>U

    Buying parts to hang on your bike is always easier than getting fit.

    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

    If Jesus had a gun, he'd be alive today!

  6. #6
    Call me a Fred
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    -- Approval of the Keystone pipeline.
    Canadian oil is not domestic oil, it's foreign. Mitt needs to study some geography.
    Mike

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    How are the solar, wind, and other renewables doing under this administration? China is making a bunch of solar panels and wind towers, not so much here.

    Obama could have made a similar statement and substituted all the buzz words (renewables, etc) that make people feel good about him, but he couldn't execute it either.

    We have oil and gas reserves, we should develop them and tax the livingshit out of it to pay for new programs of renewables, nuclear, etc.
    depends...in terms of installation, its a pretty strong industry in the NW due to government mandates requiring a certain % of renewable power. We're buying the infrastructure elsewhere...we're installing it like crazy here..and its employing a lot of people currently. Wheat field farmers in the Columbia Gorge are retiring quite comfortably.

    Solar is still too expensive, which I don't understand whatsoever. Even with foreign made panels....old technology....
    Not banned yet.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahueh View Post
    ...
    Solar is still too expensive, which I don't understand whatsoever. Even with foreign made panels....old technology....
    Natural gas has become relatively dirt cheap as an energy source and burns clean. There is no way that solar can compete with gas in cost.
    Mike

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    How are the solar, wind, and other renewables doing under this administration? China is making a bunch of solar panels and wind towers, not so much here.
    Really I happen to work for the largest wind turbine manufacturer in the world. And our 3 plants in the US happen to make more then any other plants in the world. Our blade plant makes more blades a year then any other plant in the world right now. And its not a Chines company.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser955 View Post
    Really I happen to work for the largest wind turbine manufacturer in the world. And our 3 plants in the US happen to make more then any other plants in the world. Our blade plant makes more blades a year then any other plant in the world right now. And its not a Chines company.
    What happens next year when the subsidies and tax breaks go away? I recently wrapped up a job hunt that included a wind turbine operator and a company that makes towers. Both companies will be affected next year. One company can shift manufacturing to other products (railcars, propane tanks, etc) but the other one is completely wrapped up in wind and solar.

    Everything renewable is limited by infrastructure.
    Retired sailor

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    How are the solar, wind, and other renewables doing under this administration? China is making a bunch of solar panels and wind towers, not so much here.

    Obama could have made a similar statement and substituted all the buzz words (renewables, etc) that make people feel good about him, but he couldn't execute it either.

    We have oil and gas reserves, we should develop them and tax the livingshit out of it to pay for new programs of renewables, nuclear, etc.
    Yeah not much going on. Then why is China doing the WTO dance over renewables?

    China Says U.S. Clean-Energy Projects Violate WTO Rules - WSJ.com

    China escalates U.S. trade dispute, requests WTO decision - Yahoo! News

    The other question I have is how is NOT having a uniform energy policy and just giving these decisions to the States going to help things? One of the worst things for business is to have 50 different sets of rules regarding compliance where to drill etc. I am all for Energy Independance but damn it not on National land. The entire purpose of that system is to preserve the land and protect it from developement so that 100, 200 years from now our decendants can see what our ancestors had to cope with.

    In the West, the forests, the grazing-lands, the reserves of every kind, should be so handled as to be in the interests of the actual settler, the actual home-maker. He should be encouraged to use them at once, but in such a way as to preserve and not exhaust them. We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the many, nor do we intend to turn them over to any man who will wastefully use them by destruction, and leave to those who come after us a heritage damaged by just so much.
    ...The conservation of natural resources is the fundamental problem. Unless we solve that problem it will avail us little to solve all others
    Both Theodore Roosevelt not some Green Peace spokesman.

    If people own Private land and want to sell or lease the mineral rights under their land I am all for it. Federal Land is held in trust for the people and should not be disposed of in the interests of expedience.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahueh View Post
    depends...in terms of installation, its a pretty strong industry in the NW due to government mandates requiring a certain % of renewable power. We're buying the infrastructure elsewhere...we're installing it like crazy here..and its employing a lot of people currently. Wheat field farmers in the Columbia Gorge are retiring quite comfortably.

    Solar is still too expensive, which I don't understand whatsoever. Even with foreign made panels....old technology....
    It's only too expensive outside of China. China either is using slave labor or is in full blown sell at a loss mode to try and control the market. They are going after both the US and the EU of tariffs because the prices their cells were going for was like getting a Caddy for the price of a Metro.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post
    Canadian oil is not domestic oil, it's foreign. Mitt needs to study some geography.
    The article states that he is claiming we will have North American energy independence. I'm no geographer, but last time I checked Canada was in North America.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser955 View Post
    Really I happen to work for the largest wind turbine manufacturer in the world. And our 3 plants in the US happen to make more then any other plants in the world. Our blade plant makes more blades a year then any other plant in the world right now. And its not a Chines company.
    Sidebar: Last weekend, I tripped up I-65 through Indiana, and there were a bunch of wind turbines, maybe 300, just outside West Lafayette. Do you know anything about these?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    What happens next year when the subsidies and tax breaks go away? I recently wrapped up a job hunt that included a wind turbine operator and a company that makes towers. Both companies will be affected next year. One company can shift manufacturing to other products (railcars, propane tanks, etc) but the other one is completely wrapped up in wind and solar.

    Everything renewable is limited by infrastructure.

    I don't know about the PTC yet. We haven't gotten our 2013 production schedule. It will be slower and there will be cuts. But we still supply the Canadian and south and central American markets. And they are all going strong right now. Wind has a place here and the market isn't saturated like it is in Europe. The fact that we cant pass something as simple as a wind energy production tax credit is just prof this country is fulling its self.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by undies View Post
    The article states that he is claiming we will have North American energy independence. I'm no geographer, but last time I checked Canada was in North America.
    Thanks for the correction.
    Mike

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by undies View Post
    The article states that he is claiming we will have North American energy independence. I'm no geographer, but last time I checked Canada was in North America.
    And how will the Keystone or any other oil development project do that when the oil will go to the highest bidder? Unless, of course, you want to restrict free market capitalism.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post
    Canadian oil is not domestic oil, it's foreign. Mitt needs to study some geography.
    I believe he said "We are not going to have to buy oil from the Middle East, Venezuala or any other place we do not want to ". The other part of his plan is for a North American Partnership. Who might that be with?

    I expect Obama counts BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and the like as part of his "57 states".

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post
    Canadian oil is not domestic oil, it's foreign. Mitt needs to study some geography.
    Uhhh.........maybe he has?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Uhhh.........maybe he has?
    See post #18.
    Mike

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR_GRUMPY View Post
    Seven effin years from now.........Pretty effin good...

    His plan............Drill, baby, DRILL.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The campaign for presumed Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney released a plan Thursday for North America to be energy independent by 2020.

    Touting the country's newly accessible oil and gas reserves, Romney touched on familiar themes he said would wean the country off imported oil and spark an economic boom at home. Namely, fewer federal regulations, less support for renewable energy, and more oil drilling.

    "We're not going to have to buy oil from the Middle East, Venezuela, or any other place we don't want to," the candidate said at a campaign stop in New Mexico. "We may even be an exporter of energy, considering all our resources."

    Specifically, he called for:

    -- States to have control over drilling on federal land within their borders.

    -- Placing oversight of all onshore energy developments withing the hands of the states.

    -- Opening of new offshore areas, starting with blocks off the coasts of Virginia and the Carolinas.

    -- Approval of the Keystone pipeline.

    -- Set minimum oil production targets in the government's leasing plans.

    -- Start a fast track approval process for various energy projects, including nuclear.

    -- Limiting the ability of environmental groups and others to file lawsuits.

    ************************************************** *********************************************

    Lucy, please 'splain how we ar going to get all this drillin' done, all the oil sucked out of the ground, refineries built, and oil refined and moved all over the country in seven effin years, when it took 10 years to find and kill Bin laden????



    Does Romney think that we ae moreons????????

    Does Ryan think that we are moreons??????????

    Do Reublicans think that e are moreons?????............YES.
    .
    .
    .
    Completely possible. His plan as pointed out is for North America which includes not only Canada but also Mexico (remember Slick Willy's NAFTA).

    Here is a summary of our energy reserves:



    In Nov of 2010 the Congressional Research Service Report (CRS) of 2009 was updated to show that the US combined recoverable natural gas, oil, and coal endowment is the largest on earth and indeed much larger than the combined reserves of Saudi Arabia, China, and Canada combined. Here’s a summary:

    Oil - ~160 Billion barrels which is equivalent to 50 years of current US production plus replacement of Persian Gulf imports.

    Natural Gas - ~ 2000 Trillion cubic feet which is equivalent to US consumption for the next 90 years.

    Coal - ~ ~ 260 Billion short tons which is equivalent to ~ 200 years at current consumption rate of 1.2 Billion short tons per year.

    Oil Shale - ~ 1.4 Trillion Barrels of recoverable oil which is ~ 10 X our current oil reserves.

    Methane Hydrates (natural gas locked up in ice) - ~ not yet commercially feasible but estimates of 300,000 TCF of gas. If 3% can be recovered this would be equivalent to ~ 400 years of current natural gas production.


    This energy reserves are more than enough to get us through the next ~ 100 years when space based solar collection and transmission to earth is estimated to be operational.







    http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...n_id=&Issue_id

  24. #24
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    Have Mexico and Canada been informed yet that under Romney they will be considered the 51st and 52nd states?

    All this garbage about energy independence is just so much circus for the gullible masses. Unfortunately, there are a lot of them.
    Arguments among misinformed people do not constitute a "debate."
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    And how will the Keystone or any other oil development project do that when the oil will go to the highest bidder?
    This might be why Romney is quoted as saying, "We may even be an exporter of energy..."

    I'm actually in favor of the Excel pipeline and more drilling, for precisely the reasons Romney states. But I think it is ludicrous to talk about energy independence without focusing equally on exploration, conservation, and renewable energy. Unfortunately our deeply partisan political situation makes it impossible for any politician to take such a moderate approach to energy policy.

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