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  1. #1
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    Sequestration - was core FAQ's/now core polling

    Sequestration, yet the latest in a series of high stakes showdowns between the Executive and Legislative branches of the federal government, is certain to dominate headline (and maybe even this forum) in the coming days. To establish some basic understanding, these are the core issues/facts as I see them.

    MODERATOR'S NOTE: i have deleted the huge, unattributed cut and paste job that followed your initial paragraph. Not only does such a post violate the Style Guide, but it potentially violates Copyright laws. Please quote sparingly and always provide a link for any cut and paste content.
    Last edited by troutmd; 02-21-2013 at 07:29 AM.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  2. #2
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    Re: Sequestration - the core FAQ's

    The biggest problem is the definition of "discretionary".

    Will it hurt some? Sure in the short run but we have spent too much and I really do not see Congress and the President being able to agree on something better.

    That would take leadership ability.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Sequestration, yet the latest in a series of high stakes showdowns between the Executive and Legislative branches of the federal government, is certain to dominate headline (and maybe even this forum) in the coming days. To establish some basic understanding, these are the core issues/facts as I see them.

    MODERATOR'S NOTE: i have deleted the huge, unattributed cut and paste job that followed your initial paragraph. Not only does such a post violate the Style Guide, but it potentially violates Copyright laws. Please quote sparingly and always provide a link for any cut and paste content.
    Dear Moderator -

    In the future before you take it upon yourself to delete an hour's work to notify the poster asking for the corrections?

    In addition, can you please provide a cite for the alleged copy write issues. This seems necessary for the participates to be able to separate "potential" violations from imagine ones.

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation to allow substantive information to conform with the needs of the forum.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Dear Moderator -

    In the future before you take it upon yourself to delete an hour's work to notify the poster asking for the corrections?

    In addition, can you please provide a cite for the alleged copy write issues. This seems necessary for the participates to be able to separate "potential" violations from imagine ones.

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation to allow substantive information to conform with the needs of the forum.
    Whenever you quote or excerpt copyrighted material, whether it is infringing or not is determined by the Fair Use Doctrine. Here is an excerpt from the US Copyright Office's website regarding the Fair Use Doctrine:

    Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair.

    The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
    The nature of the copyrighted work
    The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
    The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work

    The distinction between what is fair use and what is infringement in a particular case will not always be clear or easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.

    U.S. Copyright Office - Fair Use

    Here is a link to an article from the New York Times regarding the Associated Press's attempts to policy copying. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/bu...16ap.html?_r=0

    As you can see, the Fair Use Doctrine is a concept that is difficult to define. But, it our goal in the Style Guide and in our moderation to err on the side of caution.
    I try to be perfectly civil, until someone really pisses me off.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Dear Moderator -

    In the future before you take it upon yourself to delete an hour's work to notify the poster asking for the corrections?
    Sorry you had your efforts destroyed, I can see how that would be frustrating, at the least, to have an hour of work shredded.

    I thought someone should say that.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  6. #6
    I see trees of green
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Whenever you quote or excerpt copyrighted material, whether it is infringing or not is determined by the Fair Use Doctrine. Here is an excerpt from the US Copyright Office's website regarding the Fair Use Doctrine:

    Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair.

    The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
    The nature of the copyrighted work
    The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
    The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work

    The distinction between what is fair use and what is infringement in a particular case will not always be clear or easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.

    U.S. Copyright Office - Fair Use

    Here is a link to an article from the New York Times regarding the Associated Press's attempts to policy copying. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/bu...16ap.html?_r=0

    As you can see, the Fair Use Doctrine is a concept that is difficult to define. But, it our goal in the Style Guide and in our moderation to err on the side of caution.
    When you delete what you believe is a C&P that violates copyright law I presume you've done a search to confirm the original source of the material. If that's the case then of course I think correcting the offense is appropriate; however, it seems to me, it would be beneficial if you replace the C&P with a link or citation.

  7. #7
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    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod


    Sorry you had your efforts destroyed, I can see how that would be frustrating, at the least, to have an hour of work shredded.

    I thought someone should say that.




    agreed.


    is there any way to recover the original post?
    .
    .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bricoleur View Post
    .
    .





    agreed.


    is there any way to recover the original post?
    .
    .
    See, that is a liberal problem, they just sound too smart like someone else's writing. Righties are dumb and it's easy to see when we wrote it our ownselfs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    Sorry you had your efforts destroyed, I can see how that would be frustrating, at the least, to have an hour of work shredded.

    I thought someone should say that.
    Thanks ... it was only an hour.

    The material I developed relied on information collected from a variety of sources, including the internet, as well as personal recollections from prior posts here and TV/Radio broadcasts. It was not posted on this forum for my commercial purposes and thus the copy write claim in curious.

    Had the moderator taken the time to contact me, or done independent research, he/she would have noted the OP generally re-wrote much of the gleaned information to make it original in intent, as well as to shorten the information to suite the style guide. I should have provided a closing paragraph providing attributions.

    I guess the new style is for punchy quips which have greater importance then carefully applied information for general forum educational purposes, i.e., FAQ's.

    I have no beef with the moderators however and write this for their future noodling on how to make the place punchy BUT providing flexibility in deference to some foundational debate forming facts & information.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  10. #10
    Iohannes fac totum
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    It was well written and a good read. Maybe next time save it to a word file?

  11. #11
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    Here is a picture of this coming doom from Obama's situation. It seems as if he is going to need to do a bit more than flip the finger at his opposition if he intends to retain any credibility.

    One casualty of the sequester? Obama's entire legislative agenda - Yahoo! News

    "One casualty of the sequester? Obama's entire legislative agenda

    The across-the-board cuts scheduled to take place at the end of next week would make most of President Obama's second-term priorities even harder, if not impossible, to achieve.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Thanks ... it was only an hour.

    .
    MODERATOR'S NOTE: And, it would have taken me an hour to unscramble and attribute the various parts of the FAQs. There have been block quotes in the past that I have been able to delete and leave a link. However, when I started plugging parts of the post into Google to find the source, I discovered that what you had posted appeared to be a combination of long quotes from different sources. It was 7:30 a.m. and I had to get ready to leave home for work. I had two choices -- unscramble the thing and be late for work or delete it. If I left it up until I had time later in the day to get to it (or until you responded to a PM), there would have been multiple responses to it and it would been even more difficult to get things under control.
    I try to be perfectly civil, until someone really pisses me off.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    MODERATOR'S NOTE: And, it would have taken me an hour to unscramble and attribute the various parts of the FAQs. There have been block quotes in the past that I have been able to delete and leave a link. However, when I started plugging parts of the post into Google to find the source, I discovered that what you had posted appeared to be a combination of long quotes from different sources. It was 7:30 a.m. and I had to get ready to leave home for work. I had two choices -- unscramble the thing and be late for work or delete it. If I left it up until I had time later in the day to get to it (or until you responded to a PM), there would have been multiple responses to it and it would been even more difficult to get things under control.
    Damned if you do, damned if you don't. IMHO, it's not the mod's job to unscramble or post the link from a C&P. It's the posters responsibility. Hey, footnotes might work.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    MODERATOR'S NOTE: And, it would have taken me an hour to unscramble and attribute the various parts of the FAQs. There have been block quotes in the past that I have been able to delete and leave a link. However, when I started plugging parts of the post into Google to find the source, I discovered that what you had posted appeared to be a combination of long quotes from different sources. It was 7:30 a.m. and I had to get ready to leave home for work. I had two choices -- unscramble the thing and be late for work or delete it. If I left it up until I had time later in the day to get to it (or until you responded to a PM), there would have been multiple responses to it and it would been even more difficult to get things under control.
    Correct --- I relied on a variety of sources to re-write these FAQ facts in my own words. However I can understand your confusion. I was up at work a 3:00AM this morning (Pacific Time) preparing for an international business conference call with my Germany colleagues so I apologize for my errors.
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  15. #15
    I see trees of green
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    In other words, if you're going spend an hour composing a post and don't want take a chance, do it/save it in Word, save it as a .PDF document, use a free PDF hosting site and post it as a link here from there. Or post it as an image hosted somewhere else.

    Sequestration - the core FAQ's-8492333245_ca04a3c6a7_b.jpg

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    I had two choices -- unscramble the thing and be late for work or delete it.

    You could have also locked it. That creates more time and stops responses, yet preserves the text and the message for later revision. At the least the OP could have started with the text in the locked thread to conform to your style demands. You also could have (soft) deleted the thread, which would have preserved the text. You could have PM'd the text to the OP then deleted it, so his work would be saved and he could edit it to the style guide as you interpret it. Since you noticed it came from multiple sources, if you had considered what that meant, along with the possible intent of the thread, you might have chosen this option to further your own goals and minimize problems for the OP.

    You saw two choices that could be the case, but you had many more than two choices in reality. You might consider that you are too focused on a specific path and not the destination of the journey, missing how you might be able to get closer to the destination by a different path than you are on.

    To have that option, you have to see the paths available. And there are almost always more than 2.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  17. #17
    Iohannes fac totum
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    There are only two options........blue pill or red pill.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex View Post
    There are only two options........blue pill or red pill.
    It must suck to have ED.

  19. #19
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    (Style Note - Copyright) If No Deal is Struck, Four-in-Ten Say Let the Sequester Happen | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

    Key results:

    40% of Americans say it would be better to let the automatic spending cuts go into effect, while 49% say it would be better to delay the cuts.

    76% say that the president and Congress should focus on a combination of spending cuts and tax increases to reduce the budget deficit. Just 19% agree with the current Republican position that tax increases should be off the table. Just 3% want to concentrate only on tax increases.

    73% say efforts by the president and Congress to reduce the deficit should be only or mostly focused on spending cuts while just 19% say the focus should be only or mostly on tax increases. [sounds like a Grand Bargain $3 in cuts for each $1 in new revenue deal to me]
    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

    John Kenneth Galbraith

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    It must suck to have ED.
    Purple don't seem to be in the cards.

  21. #21
    Iohannes fac totum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Purple don't seem to be in the cards.
    I don't think you're suppose to take both pills at the same time.

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