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  1. #1
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    So what was it, a raid or a riot

    I know this is big on FOX so it is going to be discounted by many Obama supporters here but did this administration not originally blame the Libyan Embassy attack on the film? Did they not say it was rioters that killed our people there?

    When the thread started here about Romney's treachery I believe that was the case. It turns out that Romney may have been spot on. The Libyan President seems to be saying something closer to Romney than the early admin public statements.

  2. #2
    Call me a Fred
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    Hell, I have no idea of what really happened and who said what and when. I do know that neither Obama or Romney were in Libya when things went down and that both have only heard things second or third hand.
    Mike

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  3. #3
    Fecal indicator
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    because exactly ZERO voters will be spending any mental energy on this monumentally unimportant topic, the answer to your question really doesn't make jacksquat difference now, does it...?

    it's far more relevant to ask if people will be influenced at election time over the fact that romney is a modern day dandy who owns dressage horses.
    eff all y'all...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post
    Hell, I have no idea of what really happened and who said what and when. I do know that neither Obama or Romney were in Libya when things went down and that both have only heard things second or third hand.
    It was very important to the left side of this election panel to scream like a pig under a gate about Romney's treachery in criticizing the Obama admin for not acting to protect the Embassies in the days leading up to 9/11. As it turns out, there was reason to believe that there was something in the works for AQ, the Ambassador who was killed even had an idea that he might be targeted. The initial response from the admin was that the attack was part of the riots caused by a goofy film. According to the President of Libya the attack took place before the riot and was a planned terrorist 9/11 celebratory attack from the gitgo. Had nothing whatsoever to do with the film rage.

    If that is an accurate description then the reaction of the President was a cover up and the Romney outrage was justified. One would think it would be mentioned here since it was originally a big deal.

  5. #5
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    Foreign media have shown pics and vid suggesting militia groups cordoned off the area and the riot was staged by them. The militia intended it to look like a riot by outraged Muslims. The ambassador might not have known anything was up until he got there. If he had tried to evacuate a day before he might have been successful. On the other hand, we don't know how well informed the militia was about the ambassador's whereabouts. If they knew he was on his way, they may have been waiting for him to fall into their trap.

    I could certainly believe Obama thought it was an unplanned riot. It isn't a place where an American could walk around asking questions. And if Obama knew anything about the planned ambush ahead of time I doubt he would have allowed the ambassador to go. Obama might still have sent a rescue mission, but would not have included a high-value target like an ambassador.

    Try looking at BBC, Reuters or Al-Jazeera instead of Fox. They all have better access to the Libya and have more thorough coverage.
    Last edited by Cinelli 82220; 09-29-2012 at 09:08 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinelli 82220 View Post
    Foreign media have shown pics and vid suggesting militia groups cordoned off the area and the riot was staged by them. The militia intended it to look like a riot by outraged Muslims. The ambassador might not have known anything was up until he got there. If he had tried to evacuate a day before he might have been successful. On the other hand, we don't know how well informed the militia was about the ambassador's whereabouts. If they knew he was on his way, they may have been waiting for him to fall into their trap.

    Try looking at BBC, Reuters or Al-Jazeera instead of Fox. They all have better access to the Libya and have more thorough coverage.
    I looked at AJ when it happened and I saw FOX last night but was inflenced to post this thread by the report yesterday and today on the Libyan President's comments. What you said above is probably accurate but doesn't change the fact that it was a raid from the start and neither does the distrust of FOX n this forum. It was misrepresented by the President's people and used to attack Romney and Romney might deserve a second look on the issue.

    The show I saw on FOX last night was Hannity and I don't put much stock in his hyperbole. It was just a rehash of what I read on the MSN home page for two days. FOX is not my primary source of information, certainly not Hannity.

  7. #7
    n00bsauce
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    The outrage was about Romney spouting off about a tragedy within hours, and before anyone in his position could know what was going on, for political advantage.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

    There are your fog people & your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said.

    "We are all ignorant about most things."
    Mel Erickson

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    The outrage was about Romney spouting off about a tragedy within hours, and before anyone in his position could know what was going on, for political advantage.
    But it sounds as if he may have had it right and maybe his camp did know something or other.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    It turns out that Romney may have been spot on.
    So long as we ignore what Romney actually said

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    and Romney might deserve a second look on the issue
    Itís disgraceful that the Obama administrationís first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks.Ē
    Yep, still bullshit

  11. #11
    n00bsauce
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    But it sounds as if he may have had it right and maybe his camp did know something or other.
    So, you think the Romney camp has agents in Libya? And the point is Romney has the tact, regard and timing of a goat. And I apologize to all the goats, here and abroad.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

    There are your fog people & your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said.

    "We are all ignorant about most things."
    Mel Erickson

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    So, you think the Romney camp has agents in Libya? And the point is Romney has the tact, regard and timing of a goat. And I apologize to all the goats, here and abroad.
    What I think is Romney didn't deserve the bad press he got on this and Obama lied until he could no longer do so. Why do you suppose he did that? Why would all of his people stress that it was NOT an act of terrorism by Islamists but was instead a reaction to an insult to Islam from America that took Islam 6 months to discover?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by coreyb View Post
    Yep, still bullshit
    What about it was bullsh!t? It sounds pretty close to me. He blamed it on that film which would be our fault for provoking them.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Erickson View Post
    So, you think the Romney camp has agents in Libya? And the point is Romney has the tact, regard and timing of a goat. And I apologize to all the goats, here and abroad.
    That makes it complete, Obama has covered everyone else abroad. How could he have forgotten the goats?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    What about it was bullsh!t? It sounds pretty close to me. He blamed it on that film which would be our fault for provoking them.
    The entire thing. The first reaction was not to sympathize with those who attacked, and the admin certainly condemned the violence. You have to really twist the words and the admins actions to turn that into an accurate description of what happened

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by coreyb View Post
    The entire thing. The first reaction was not to sympathize with those who attacked, and the admin certainly condemned the violence. You have to really twist the words and the admins actions to turn that into an accurate description of what happened
    The adminstration mischaracterized the violence giving credit for it to idiots that found us offensive rather than condemning the people who planed and executed it. That also served to cover his ass. Now the intelligence community is trying to take responsibility for it but then, the ambassador that was killed had wind of it. If he did so did the diplomatic sector of the adminstration and through them so did Obama. They knew right up front that it was an act of terrorism and was NOT inspired by the movie. They lied.

  17. #17
    Big is relative
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    We beat Al Qaeda, we killed their leader, no way they were involved in any way. It was all about the movie trailer that came out in July and the fact that it happened to coincide with 9/11 was pure coincidence. Wait, now it was a terrorist attack, no it was a movie trailer that we must condemn, but wait, it was a coordinated attack by terrorists or maybe really organized protesters with RPGs and automatic cannon. Just a bump in the road that killed our people. Our foreign policy is a joke.
    Retired sailor

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    The adminstration mischaracterized the violence giving credit for it to idiots that found us offensive
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    rather than condemning the people who planed and executed it.
    No
    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    They knew right up front that it was an act of terrorism and was NOT inspired by the movie. They lied.
    But that wouldn't necessarily make Romney's crass political opportunism anything but self serving bullshit.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by coreyb View Post
    Yes
    No
    But that wouldn't necessarily make Romney's crass political opportunism anything but self serving bullshit.
    Wouldn't that be equally descriptive of the way the adminstration handled it?

  20. #20
    Call me a Fred
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Wouldn't that be equally descriptive of the way the adminstration handled it?
    Yep, pretty much all that comes out of any politician is self-serving manure.
    Mike

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  21. #21
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    The attacks were coincidental with numerous uprisings across several regions, all of which are heavily Islamic in nature.

    Intelligence as to the desire and likelihood of imminent attacks against any and all American (and Western) interests in much of this part of the world is fairly common place--particularly around uniquely American or Christian significant events, such as 9/11.

    The reactions and statements of the Administration, as they evolved, are nothing if not reasonably expected in terms of any real context.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    It was very important to the left side of this election panel to scream like a pig under a gate about Romney's treachery in criticizing the Obama admin for not acting to protect the Embassies in the days leading up to 9/11.
    Do we need to remind you what the screaming was really about? It was a response to Romney's heartless political opportunism leaving him walking away with a goulish smile.
    It wasn't about any legitimate criticism from Romney because none ever existed.
    Investigating the murder and being upfront with the facts is a worth cause without distorting legitimate criticism of Romney.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Wouldn't that be equally descriptive of the way the adminstration handled it?
    Self serving bullshit, yes. Not so much on the crassness, imo(at least in this situation)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse D Smith View Post
    Do we need to remind you what the screaming was really about? It was a response to Romney's heartless political opportunism leaving him walking away with a goulish smile.
    It wasn't about any legitimate criticism from Romney because none ever existed.
    Investigating the murder and being upfront with the facts is a worth cause without distorting legitimate criticism of Romney.
    Truth be known Romney probably produced the film.

  25. #25
    Big is relative
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwl325 View Post
    The attacks were coincidental with numerous uprisings across several regions, all of which are heavily Islamic in nature.

    Intelligence as to the desire and likelihood of imminent attacks against any and all American (and Western) interests in much of this part of the world is fairly common place--particularly around uniquely American or Christian significant events, such as 9/11.

    The reactions and statements of the Administration, as they evolved, are nothing if not reasonably expected in terms of any real context.
    The the first part of your post, it was a coordinated attack with heavy weapons by people with a working knowledge of the compound.

    The issue with the administration is the appearance of confusion with regards to what each person was discussing in briefs with the press. The POTUS further commented on the movie trailer at the UN as if it was the root cause of the violence. Terrorist groups are the root cause, but that doesn't jive with a re-election campaign.
    Retired sailor

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