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  1. #1
    I see trees of green
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    CAPITALIST BOMB: Texas Style / Why haven't we been talking about this?

    The Tsarnaev brothers... I mean, West Fertilizer Company created a dangerous situation that lead to an explosion that killed 14 people and injured in excess of 200. Why haven't we been talking about this industrial accident?

    Has Lindsey Graham said the DHS, EPA and OSHA 'Dropped The Ball' yet?
    What about Peter King; any comment from him?


    Texas Plant May Not Have Been Inspected in Years, Despite Risks

    The Dallas Morning News reported that the West facility had claimed in an emergency planning report that an explosion of the kind that happened Wednesday would be virtually impossible.
    Texas Plant Had 270 Tons of Explosive Material, Was Not Being Monitored for Safety

    “It seems this manufacturer was willfully off the grid,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., the ranking member of the House Committee on Homeland Security. “This facility was known to have chemicals well above the threshold amount to be regulated under the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Act (CFATS), yet we understand that DHS did not even know the plant existed until it blew up.”

    TEXAS CAPITALIST BOMB: Why haven't we been talking about this?-8671143040_f2f065acfa_b.jpg

  2. #2
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    The biggest danger to America may actually be... America.
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  4. #4
    I see trees of green
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    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    The biggest danger to America may actually be... America.
    We may need to carpet bomb America back to the stone age to save America.

  5. #5
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    Another example of government over-regulating zealots strangling America's competitive edge. Last OSHA inspection 28 years ago- my God, get off the backs of our job-creators and let them thrive!

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    It's called "business friendly" Mr.

  7. #7
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    yuppers, we some more deregulation!
    It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it.--Douglas MacArthur

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  8. #8
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill2 View Post
    Another example of government over-regulating zealots strangling America's competitive edge. Last OSHA inspection 28 years ago- my God, get off the backs of our job-creators and let them thrive!
    and how is this the fault of the company that ran the facility?

    I'd like to know why their insurance company let them slide all these years. That's going to cost them. Did they even HAVE insurance?
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  9. #9
    I see trees of green
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    and how is this the fault of the company that ran the facility?

    I'd like to know why their insurance company let them slide all these years. That's going to cost them. Did they even HAVE insurance?

    You don't even see how your comment makes no sense at all, do you?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy69 View Post
    and how is this the fault of the company that ran the facility?

    I'd like to know why their insurance company let them slide all these years. That's going to cost them. Did they even HAVE insurance?
    The insurance company likely didn't have a clue, given the lack of a previous explosion. Most loss control reps (at least, the ones I hear about when I go into a plant) have virtually no experience in process hazards- they just want to make sure that all the fire extinguishers have had their annual inspections.....
    We'll be back soon, there will be more of us, and next time we won't be dropping leaflets.

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  11. #11
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    So what govt entity would have the responsibility of checking stockpiles of product and chemicals?

  12. #12
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    You don't even see how your comment makes no sense at all, do you?
    answer the question.

    How is the government's failure to inspect the fault of the company that ran the facility? Did the company officials run them off at the point of a gun? Doubtful.

    Again, I'd like to know why their insurance company wasn't on top of this.

    Or, maybe they WERE on top of it, and the fact that government pencil pushers weren't around had nothing to do with it, and it really WAS an accident.

    You're making the fallacious assumption that because they might not have been inspected for safety, that automatically means they were unsafe.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by saf-t View Post
    The insurance company likely didn't have a clue, given the lack of a previous explosion. Most loss control reps (at least, the ones I hear about when I go into a plant) have virtually no experience in process hazards- they just want to make sure that all the fire extinguishers have had their annual inspections.....
    Maybe this will come out during the investigation- has the insurance company's loss control rep visited the plant since 1985?

  14. #14
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    You don't even see how your comment makes no sense at all, do you?
    hmm, and it looks like the inspections that would have been triggered if you assume the plant didn't self report, would not have prevented an accidental explosion:

    Texas Plant Had 270 Tons of Explosive Material, Was Not Being Monitored for Safety - Truthdig

    Since the agency never received any so-called top-screen report from West Fertilizer, the facility was not regulated or monitored by the DHS under its CFAT standards, largely designed to prevent sabotage of sites and to keep chemicals from falling into criminal hands.
    It's beginning to seem like your hatred of capitalism and the free market has blinded you to the facts.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  15. #15
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    Saved by a regulatory loophole. Well played!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    The Tsarnaev brothers... I mean, West Fertilizer Company created a dangerous situation that lead to an explosion that killed 14 people and injured in excess of 200. Why haven't we been talking about this industrial accident?

    Has Lindsey Graham said the DHS, EPA and OSHA 'Dropped The Ball' yet?
    What about Peter King; any comment from him?


    Texas Plant May Not Have Been Inspected in Years, Despite Risks



    Texas Plant Had 270 Tons of Explosive Material, Was Not Being Monitored for Safety




    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is something off about these two photos. The one on the left shows the facility that exploded intact but the school near the football field is also very different.

  17. #17
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    oh and look, in the other link you posted:

    Texas Plant May Not Have Been Inspected in Years, Despite Risks | Mother Jones

    The plant's June 2011 risk management plan (RMP), filed with the Environmental Protection Agency, identified several potential hazards, including equipment failure; toxic release; overpressure, corrosion, or overfilling of equipment; an earthquake; or a tornado.
    So it seems, they WEREN'T quite as far "under the radar" as some people are suggesting.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  18. #18
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    oh and look at this:

    A separate EPA program, known as Tier II, requires reporting of ammonium nitrate and other hazardous chemicals stored above certain quantities. Tier II reports are submitted to local fire departments and emergency planning and response groups to help them plan for and respond to chemical disasters. In Texas, the reports are collected by the Department of State Health Services. Over the last seven years, according to reports West Fertilizer filed, 2012 was the only time the company stored ammonium nitrate at the facility.

    It reported having 270 tons on site.
    so they reported to the EPA the amount of ammonium nitrate they had at the facility.

    I think this is turning out to be a colossal failure of the anti free market paranoia brigade more than anything else.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  19. #19
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    I bet that plant used to be a safe distance from town, and the town built up to it also. Not that that helps much. Certainly not the worst fertilizer explosion to ever occur in Texas.
    Tis the season for all of us not hard enough to play to belittle those not hard enough to win. We are a funny lot. - dave @ November Bicycles

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinewmexico View Post
    I bet that plant used to be a safe distance from town, and the town built up to it also. Not that that helps much. Certainly not the worst fertilizer explosion to ever occur in Texas.
    Wasn't there a BP refinery in Texas that was having similar problems? I think the explosions were smaller, but more frequent.

  21. #21
    AM999's Liberal Facist
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    Is Andy69 really defending the twits that ran this facility? Or am I in a pre-caffeine daze and hallucinating?
    Man. You are all stuped.
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  22. #22
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    Andy is right. Governor Rick Perry has said he will investigate what happened and fix anything that was wrong. We don't really need to be stickin' our noses in Texas' business anyhow.

  23. #23
    Ricardo Cabeza
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerminatorX91 View Post
    The Tsarnaev brothers... I mean, West Fertilizer Company created a dangerous situation that lead to an explosion that killed 14 people and injured in excess of 200. Why haven't we been talking about this industrial accident?

    Has Lindsey Graham said the DHS, EPA and OSHA 'Dropped The Ball' yet?
    What about Peter King; any comment from him?


    Texas Plant May Not Have Been Inspected in Years, Despite Risks



    Texas Plant Had 270 Tons of Explosive Material, Was Not Being Monitored for Safety




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	8671143040_f2f065acfa_b.jpg 
Views:	163 
Size:	404.0 KB 
ID:	279443
    this whole thread is non sequitur.

    I would suggest that you 1) find some articles that are better written and not quite so obviously biased, and 2) actually read them.
    Whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence - John Locke

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  24. #24
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    Ultimately, the operator of a plant such as this one has to be responsible for safety. No government agency or agencies can be monitoring an industrial plant 24/7 for safety issues. I do not know what happened at West, Texas. But, based on my experience in the first major case I on which I worked as a young lawyer over 25 years ago, I would guess that the ultimately it will be determined that there was no one cause to the accident, but a "perfect storm" of several causes. The case on which I worked, an industrial accident in which one man was killed, had at least four causes -- (1) a ten-year old piece of equipment that did not have a dead man switch, which had become standard on the piece of equipment a few years after it was made; (2) site supervision issues by the owner of the site (e.g., the owner's employees who were responsible for running the site did not have a clear line of vision of all activities); (3) insufficient training of by the employer of the man who was killed (the man was employed by an independent contractor who was picking up product on the site); and (4) negligence by the man who set off the chain of events that ultimately resulted in his death. The facility had been used daily for 10 years without any accidents and was inspected by various governmental agencies on a regular basis. Each contributing factor alone was insufficient to cause an accident, but when the four came together one morning, it was a disaster. After the fact, people were pointing fingers at each other. But, ultimately every actor has a duty to ensure the safety of industrial plants, including those who work there.
    I try to be perfectly civil, until someone really pisses me off.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinewmexico View Post
    I bet that plant used to be a safe distance from town, and the town built up to it also. Not that that helps much. Certainly not the worst fertilizer explosion to ever occur in Texas.
    I'm sure that's right. The same thing happens all over Texas as developers expand populated areas.

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