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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Probably because they were hoping he would get better. Which would explain why they never revealed his condition.
    Isn't it a shame to have to explain these things to people who you would expect to be able to think for themselves. I mean c'mon, this is obvious stuff.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Isn't it a shame to have to explain these things to people who you would expect to be able to think for themselves. I mean c'mon, this is obvious stuff.
    It is a shame that we don't make assumptions and think they are facts. Shame on me.

    Especially when it's reported he has probably been in a coma for a year from severe brain damage, probably due to a lack of oxygen which causes brain cells die to quickly. Brain cells do not readily repair or regenerate so when he slipped into the coma (probably a year ago), NK doctors knew that there was no chance for recovery.

    Sooooooo.... MY assumptions are that NK knew long before this the extent to which the brain was damaged and so I thought tlg's assumptions were way off base and didn't think there was any point responding to it.
    Last edited by love4himies; 06-19-2017 at 11:37 AM.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    It is a shame that we don't make assumptions and think they are facts. Shame on me.

    Especially when it's reported he has probably been in a coma for a year from severe brain damage, probably due to a lack of oxygen which causes brain cells die to quickly. Brain cells do not readily repair or regenerate so when he slipped into the coma (probably a year ago), NK doctors knew that there was no chance for recovery.

    Sooooooo.... MY assumptions are that NK knew long before this the extent to which the brain was damaged and thought tlg's assumptions were way off base so didn't think there was any point responding to it.
    But this was your comment:

    "So why wasn't he released when he fell into the coma?"

    For a definitive answer you would need to as Kim. Possibilities abound.

    The 'dear leader' was busy and didn't get around to it.

    They thought there was a chance for recovery.

    They were just sticking it to Obama.

    They thought they'd wait to see if Trump would offer something for him.

    They like to fu^k with the Americans.

    I'm sure if you thought about it for a minute you could come up with the same list. No?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    It is a shame that we don't make assumptions and think they are facts. Shame on me.

    Especially when it's reported he has probably been in a coma for a year from severe brain damage, probably due to a lack of oxygen which causes brain cells die to quickly. Brain cells do not readily repair or regenerate so when he slipped into the coma (probably a year ago), NK doctors knew that there was no chance for recovery.

    Sooooooo.... MY assumptions are that NK knew long before this the extent to which the brain was damaged and so I thought tlg's assumptions were way off base and didn't think there was any point responding to it.
    Why didn't Trump get him out 6 months ago? Why did the Trump administration give the family the same instructions the Obama administration did? Why did Trump leave 3 other Americans in North Korea? You know what Obama told Trump when they first don't you?


    North Korean escapees have reported that it is common practice to send home prisoners who are very ill, said Greg Scarlatoiu, executive director of the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea (HRNK).

    “This way, political prison camp and other detention facility officials avoid having to deal with that situation,” he said.

    Once Pyongyang realized the seriousness of Warmbier’s medical situation, they would likely have panicked, said Stephan Haggard, Director of the Korea-Pacific Program at the University of California, San Diego.
    It could be that “Warmbier went into a coma very soon after the sentencing, but the intelligence services covered it up or didn’t report it up the chain,
    Eventually “someone realizes that the worst of all possible worlds is for the guy to die in custody,” he said, at which point the North embarked on a flurry of secret diplomatic activity that led to Warmbier’s release
    With Warmbier in coma, North Korea's hostage 'playbook' backfires | The Japan Times

  5. #105
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    Terrible news. Otto had died


  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Terrible news. Otto had died

    Very sad. Regardless of who was responsible for his release at least his parents got to be with him when he died.
    If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

  7. #107
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    RIP, Otto. I'm so glad you were brought home to be surrounded by your loved ones. You didn't deserve this.

    Mods: If possible can you please close this thread?
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post




    Otto's father states that President Obama told them to keep a low profile and nothing got done. The family then made a plea to President Trump and things got done.
    hopefully Trump will take note and use his amazing powers to get all Americans released before crap like what happened to Otto (RIP) happens again. Let's see if Trump can deliver a deal that means something to the whole world.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    hopefully Trump will take note and use his amazing powers to get all Americans released before crap like what happened to Otto (RIP) happens again. Let's see if Trump can deliver a deal that means something to the whole world.
    Yes, let's hope.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  10. #110
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    the issue now is what is Trump going to do to effect the release of the remaining hostages and what sanctions will be imposed on NK over their detainment and mistreatment of US citizens...?

    Trump has a lot more work to do on this situation.

    less tweeting, more acting presidential would be a good start.
    the 45th POTUS is inept, corrupt, and a pathological liar. and those may be his better qualities...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon View Post
    hopefully Trump will take note and use his amazing powers to get all Americans released before crap like what happened to Otto (RIP) happens again. Let's see if Trump can deliver a deal that means something to the whole world.
    Unfortunately there is little Trump, or Yun, can do. As the link I posted up thread shows he was released due to his coma, not due to Trump. Unless one of the other prisoners gets sick, or Yun can leverage what happen to Otto into more concessions, there is little likelihood others will be released. Even if they are released they will just grab more Americans to use as bargaining chips.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    the issue now is what is Trump going to do to effect the release of the remaining hostages and what sanctions will be imposed on NK over their detainment and mistreatment of US citizens...?

    Trump has a lot more work to do on this situation.

    less tweeting, more acting presidential would be a good start.
    Banning travel by Americans to NK might be a start.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebit View Post
    Banning travel by Americans to NK might be a start.
    Isn't that like putting "Don't eat" labels on poison? Also, it's not a good start to getting the remaining Americans released.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
    Isn't that like putting "Don't eat" labels on poison? Also, it's not a good start to getting the remaining Americans released.
    It might prevent any more from voluntarily getting stuck. I don['t think anything but a sudden whim will get those released that are there now.

  15. #115
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    are you guys spiking the ball?
    NK was just dumping the body so there was no 'US Prisoner Dies in NK Prison'

    Don't swim near waterfalls
    Was promised the trip of a lifetime. Guess it was
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Same reasons people go to places like Auschwitz, or the Forbidden City, or Hiroshima, or Chernobyl.


    We Americans live quite frankly pampered lives in a goldfish bowl overwhelmingly.

    Which is part of why Congress is so quick to drop bombs and fling missiles to solve problems-because we're immune to the consequences of the weapons we sell and use. So long as you have an income: you can come and go as you please, there's food, there's water, there's electricity, there's roads, you can say and basically do anything you want....but outside of Civil War era battle sites...the USA lacks in that dark side of history that teases the human psyche. There's tons of them TBH, but almost all of them are now empty peaceful fields where a kid can fly a kite unscathed and never know a battle took place. Ma Nature reclaimed them and now you'd never know the bloody history of the Plains lands by looking at it.

    Places where things gone terribly and catastrophically wrong due to war or rulership or engineering mega-disaster tease us. We have it pretty darn near to perfect here. And perfect gets pretty dull and predictable.



    ....Hence going to places like North Korea. I'll admit to being curious what the place is like....but I'm content to find out by surfing the internet.
    are you kidding? What are your frigging odds of being imprisoned @ Auschwitz or Hiroshima? People go to those places for a feeling of reverence but your odds of being detained and killed are miniscule to nil. Forbidden City, still pretty good odds. Again, I'd take a trip to Chernobyl over N Korea. Radiation can be monitored. N Korea is a big 'if'.
    I've been to some sketchy places, hell I've been in areas in TJ few Gueros travel. I've stayed in areas of Baltimore where people couldn't believe I did (I was a 'guest' of the Jamaicans and thus pretty untouchable). N Korea? No thanks. I have no desire, nor is there even any curiosity about it. Look at evening Satellite Photos, there's no frigging lights, hell they are the 'wetbacks' of China. Imagine swimming across a freezing river for Chinese Illegal Alien Labor rates? If a citizen averages $1.36 an hour what does a scab make .$50 an hour?
    I've done a handful of things where my life was in peril, at least there was an upside. Risk your life to visit a sh!thole? I'll pass.
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

    still not figgering on biggering

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    are you kidding? What are your frigging odds of being imprisoned @ Auschwitz or Hiroshima? People go to those places for a feeling of reverence but your odds of being detained and killed are miniscule to nil. Forbidden City, still pretty good odds. Again, I'd take a trip to Chernobyl over N Korea. Radiation can be monitored. N Korea is a big 'if'.
    I've been to some sketchy places, hell I've been in areas in TJ few Gueros travel. I've stayed in areas of Baltimore where people couldn't believe I did (I was a 'guest' of the Jamaicans and thus pretty untouchable). N Korea? No thanks. I have no desire, nor is there even any curiosity about it. Look at evening Satellite Photos, there's no frigging lights, hell they are the 'wetbacks' of China. Imagine swimming across a freezing river for Chinese Illegal Alien Labor rates? If a citizen averages $1.36 an hour what does a scab make .$50 an hour?
    I've done a handful of things where my life was in peril, at least there was an upside. Risk your life to visit a sh!thole? I'll pass.
    marc is quite right in suggesting this 22 year old kid, fresh out in the world, didn't have a clue what he was getting into going to North Korea. He'd had no experience anything like living in a hostile state, not even close to the Baltimore ghetto or the back alleys of TJ!

    Marc's right too that Americans have led pampered lives for generations. We have only one nightmare haunting us, the Civil War. We're still hurting from that one. It's morphed into the political divide quite nicely. Maybe that's why Americans, from the south mainly, are still quick to pick up guns in an international conflict.

    The Europeans don't want to go to war anymore. They didn't wan to go to war in 1916 or 1939, They know what it does to people. American are innocent as the driven snow. We've tasted modern war in very limited instances, like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. In the latter, electricity didn't go off, food stores stayed open, and we got on with our lives.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    marc is quite right in suggesting this 22 year old kid, fresh out in the world, didn't have a clue what he was getting into going to North Korea. He'd had no experience anything like living in a hostile state, not even close to the Baltimore ghetto or the back alleys of TJ!

    Marc's right too that Americans have led pampered lives for generations. We have only one nightmare haunting us, the Civil War. We're still hurting from that one. It's morphed into the political divide quite nicely. Maybe that's why Americans, from the south mainly, are still quick to pick up guns in an international conflict.

    The Europeans don't want to go to war anymore. They didn't wan to go to war in 1916 or 1939, They know what it does to people. American are innocent as the driven snow. We've tasted modern war in very limited instances, like Pearl Harbor and 9/11. In the latter, electricity didn't go off, food stores stayed open, and we got on with our lives.
    Did this kid live under a rock? He didn't know it would be dangerous going to N Korea? That's BS.

    One nightmare? Evidently you never read anything about WWI. My father told me stories about his experiences in an amphibious tank battalion in the Pacific. He didn't sleep so well at night.

    Viet Nam? Clearly you don't remember the National Guard gunning down that girl at Kent State. Iraq and Afghanistan? You have a short memory.

    The civil war didn't 'morph' into anything. The south wanted to keep their slaves. I believe they would keep slaves today if they hadn't lost the war. Might call them something else, but they would still be slaves.

    Maybe you got on with your life, lots of people didn't. You must be one of the pampered ones to have this view of America. I know a lot of blacks, American Indians, lgbtq, middle eastern immigrants who don't feel they've been pampered for generations. Yeah, I'm sure lots of old white men feel Americans have been pampered for generations. That's part of the problem.

    Sometimes you really need to check yourself before you push that Post button.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    RIP, Otto. I'm so glad you were brought home to be surrounded by your loved ones. You didn't deserve this.

    Mods: If possible can you please close this thread?
    No, people are going to want to talk about it.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    No, people are going to want to talk about it.
    See because when he was a vegetable it was okay to have the thread and talk about all of the tough shoveling that Trump did. But now that the vegetable is dead, it seems crass and as ATP said, spiking the football.

    Little did the OP know that it was crass all along.
    In the time of battle you don't rise to the occasion you resort to the level of your conditioning...

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatsmybush View Post
    See because when he was a vegetable it was okay to have the thread and talk about all of the tough shoveling that Trump did. But now that the vegetable is dead, it seems crass and as ATP said, spiking the football.

    Little did the OP know that it was crass all along.

    And the mod allows it to keep going.

    Speaking of crass: nice description of Otto "Vegetable". Can you imagine if his parents read that. Out of all the posts on this thread this must be the most disrespectful.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

  22. #122
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    No, not everyone is up on world events. Especially young kids. Plus Otto was a "thrill seeker" as described by his parents.
    He was enticed by a Chinese travel agency that promises safe travel into N.K. That travel agency just reported they will stop tours into N.K. They were still doing tours there all this time.
    The U.S. really should ban travel to that hell hole.

    www.consumeraffairs.com/news/booze-bribes-and-propaganda-the-company-that-promises-safe-travel-in-north-korea-061917.html
    "budget travel to destinations your mother would rather you stayed away from."
    "Despite what you may hear, North Korea is probably one of the safest places on earth to visit," the website says. "We have never felt suspicious or threatened at any time.”
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4himies View Post
    And the mod allows it to keep going.

    Speaking of crass: nice description of Otto "Vegetable". Can you imagine if his parents read that. Out of all the posts on this thread this must be the most disrespectful.
    The term has been used for someone who is in a persistent vegetative state for decades.

    If you are offended by that term you must be appalled by Trump's loyal followers trying to leverage this tragic episode for political gain. North Korea returned a brain dead kid as they didn't want to deal with trying to artificially keep him alive anymore. Somehow this is twisted into Trump being a foreign policy genius worthy of praise

    Crass

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb100 View Post
    Did this kid live under a rock? He didn't know it would be dangerous going to N Korea? That's BS.

    One nightmare? Evidently you never read anything about WWI. My father told me stories about his experiences in an amphibious tank battalion in the Pacific. He didn't sleep so well at night.

    Viet Nam? Clearly you don't remember the National Guard gunning down that girl at Kent State. Iraq and Afghanistan? You have a short memory.

    The civil war didn't 'morph' into anything. The south wanted to keep their slaves. I believe they would keep slaves today if they hadn't lost the war. Might call them something else, but they would still be slaves.

    Maybe you got on with your life, lots of people didn't. You must be one of the pampered ones to have this view of America. I know a lot of blacks, American Indians, lgbtq, middle eastern immigrants who don't feel they've been pampered for generations. Yeah, I'm sure lots of old white men feel Americans have been pampered for generations. That's part of the problem.

    Sometimes you really need to check yourself before you push that Post button.
    Trail of Tears. Slavery. Watts. Stonewall. Rodney King. Trayvon Martin....
    I agree, the posting was pretty white male
    I get the point. Our cities and countryside haven't been destroyed by war multiple times, but I fail how that relates to the point. Americans are known for being ugly tourists, Carving their names in the Colosseum for example. This sort of idiocy brings a fine in most places, in others, not so much.
    one nation, under surveillance with liberty and justice for few

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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    No, not everyone is up on world events. Especially young kids. Plus Otto was a "thrill seeker" as described by his parents.
    He was enticed by a Chinese travel agency that promises safe travel into N.K. That travel agency just reported they will stop tours into N.K. They were still doing tours there all this time.
    The U.S. really should ban travel to that hell hole.

    www.consumeraffairs.com/news/booze-bribes-and-propaganda-the-company-that-promises-safe-travel-in-north-korea-061917.html
    "budget travel to destinations your mother would rather you stayed away from."
    "Despite what you may hear, North Korea is probably one of the safest places on earth to visit," the website says. "We have never felt suspicious or threatened at any time.”
    Agree. Many are very naive at that age and have the "it will never happen to me" mind set and so are risk takers.

    I'm glad to hear that the tour operator will no longer be taking US Citizens in. It would be nice if they just stopped all together.
    While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. - Stephen R. Covey.

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