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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post

    Now we have Fox News spin on the right and MSNBC spin on the left, both which conveniently cherry pick issues on the other side while ignoring the warts on their own side. I seems that generating anger gets ratings.
    MSNBC seems to go which way wind blows. During the run up to the election, they covered most of Trump's rallies live and the commentary was limited to what a phenomena he was. Little about the lies and ridiculous promises.

    Fox never gave Hillary any positive coverage. Now, MSNBC hates Trump but he is soooo good for their ratings. Michele Wolf had it exactly right. A symbiotic or perhaps parasitic relationship between Trump and the media.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Increasingly polarized media is an issue as well. When I was growing up, we watched mainly two news sources - CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite and the PBS Newshour. These were both straight unsensationalized news sources. No screaming at each other or calling interviewees insults, just straight dignified reporting.

    Now we have Fox News spin on the right and MSNBC spin on the left, both which conveniently cherry pick issues on the other side while ignoring the warts on their own side. It seems that generating anger gets ratings.
    You must be as old as I am. :-) I think the reporters back then (Cronkite, Rather, Brokaw, etc) still had their bias but they kept it in check. It at least appeared that they did their best to remain neutral.

    Now my morning routine is to check out Fox and Friends to see what they are talking about, and then Morning Joe to see what they are talking about (it's never the same) and then I spend the rest of my morning watching Robin Meade. She seems to be the least biased (politically) morning show.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    We are becoming more and more divided as a nation while more moderate Republicans are being primaried more and more often.

    ...Back in the 1990s, there were Republicans at the state and local level who I voted for because they were practical moderates and had more experience and common sense than the candidates the Dems were running.
    For a long time, we were mostly a nation of moderate right and moderate left politicians. At least those were the ones that won elections.

    Any crazy nut can run, but they never won before. In 2008 and 2012, that's how most folks viewed Trump, as a nutty long shot doing it for publicity.

    What's odd to me, is the conditions that led to the desperation of republican primary voters was mostly previous republicans politicians. They also made promises, but never delivered on them.

    Instead, they catered to their rich business donors, screwing their own poor voters with policies that eliminated jobs, cut education budgets, eliminated healthcare benefits, etc. Yet the voters stayed with them, going through cycle after cycle until this time in desperation as things got worse- they wanted a change - and that was perfect timing for Trump. To deliver more empty promises, it is turning out.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    You must be as old as I am. :-) I think the reporters back then (Cronkite, Rather, Brokaw, etc) still had their bias but they kept it in check. It at least appeared that they did their best to remain neutral.

    Now my morning routine is to check out Fox and Friends to see what they are talking about, and then Morning Joe to see what they are talking about (it's never the same) and then I spend the rest of my morning watching Robin Meade. She seems to be the least biased (politically) morning show.
    Rather and Brokaw were later. I'm old enough to remember John Chancelor and David Brinkley in the 1970s. They were good too.

    Everybody has bias whether they admit it or not. Some are better at neutral reporting than others.

    Sadly, the polarization is driving rarings. As much as Trump likes to bash the media, they were his lapdogs all during the campaign. Do you remember any Republican primary debate where Trump was positioned on a left or right podium rather than in the center? Neither do I.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  5. #80
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    The internet notwithstanding in its ability to get the word out, it's not like partisan politics is a recent invention.

    Before the internet, there was yellow journalism, and before that, there were taverns and coffeehouses.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  6. #81
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    I lost my phone number. Can I have yours?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_fuji View Post
    This looks fairly accurate. Where did you find this?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    This looks fairly accurate. Where did you find this?
    The pic is from Imgur, but was compiled by a user on Twitter
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    The internet notwithstanding in its ability to get the word out, it's not like partisan politics is a recent invention.

    Before the internet, there was yellow journalism, and before that, there were taverns and coffeehouses.
    At least at taverns and coffeehouses the people had to actually talk to each other. Now people "talk" to each other online (like we are) without any skin in the game.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_fuji View Post
    The pic is from Imgur, but was compiled by a user on Twitter
    It seems pretty accurate to me but I'll admit to not knowing much about many of the sites on the left and right side of that chart. I like my news neat for the most part which I guess is why I like the sources at the center/top of that chart.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    At least at taverns and coffeehouses the people had to actually talk to each other. Now people "talk" to each other online (like we are) without any skin in the game.
    What "skin in the game" do you suppose people had then that they lack now? It wasn't like those places were hotbeds of nice. When people met IRL, it wasn't uncommon for their political functions to turn contentious, even violent; see, e.g., Violence Has a Long History in American Elections, or:

    "Though much of the conversation about political violence focuses on the recent past, Erica Chenoweth, an international relations professor at the University of Denver, points out that clashes were much more common at the turn of the century.

    'It was pretty routine in American politics up until the Post-War period,' Chenoweth told ABC News. 'The major clashes were between industrial and financial sector supporters and labor union supporter types.'”

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hist...ry?id=37634969


    If anything, cybertalking is more civil, in that not even the most determined troll can get into anything more than a virtual "fight."
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  12. #87
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    In a strange way, this thread gives me hope.

    I'm not sure anyone else feels the same way, but I see it in the words, in the struggle to be heard, in the discord to find meaning in one's life, and in the assured belief that "surely" this time is different & we humans are doomed.

    To love radical change.

    No matter where, how, when and/or why this change manifests itself to humanity, it's a sign we are moving forward. This is true even when we don't think it can't possibly be true. Like now. Like right freaking now.

    Reading this thread and PO section, with all the highs, the lows, the struggles, the achievements, the possibilities, the despair, it is all an emphatic sign that we as a species are still inching inexorably ahead. Life is never linear. And besides, if it was, humanity would have been dead long ago.

    Embrace it. Enjoy it. From whatever side you gaze upon it. Don't let any anger (wherever and/or whomever it is directed at) or any sadness allow you to miss it.

    Thank you all!


    .....you may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.....
    Last edited by BelgianHammer; 1 Week Ago at 01:00 AM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    What "skin in the game" do you suppose people had then that they lack now? It wasn't like those places were hotbeds of nice. When people met IRL, it wasn't uncommon for their political functions to turn contentious, even violent; see, e.g., Violence Has a Long History in American Elections, or:

    "Though much of the conversation about political violence focuses on the recent past, Erica Chenoweth, an international relations professor at the University of Denver, points out that clashes were much more common at the turn of the century.

    'It was pretty routine in American politics up until the Post-War period,' Chenoweth told ABC News. 'The major clashes were between industrial and financial sector supporters and labor union supporter types.'”

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hist...ry?id=37634969


    If anything, cybertalking is more civil, in that not even the most determined troll can get into anything more than a virtual "fight."
    I think what he meant by "skin in the game" or lack thereof is the ability now with the internet to be confrontational while staying anonymous.
    Last edited by Lombard; 1 Week Ago at 04:29 AM.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think what he meant by "skin in the game" or lack thereof is the ability now with the internet to be confrontational while staying anonymous.
    So, with this "skin in the game" the bully could enforce his viewpoint by sheer weight of violence rather than eloquence. No need to support your argument with facts and logic when you can do it with fists...
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think what he meant by "skin in the game" or lack thereof is the ability now with the internet to be confrontational while staying anonymous.
    Well, yeah. If I were talking to half the trolls on this forum in real life, I'd just walk away. On the internet, we're all subject to their trolling, unless we want to ignore their specific posts and deal with gaps in the middle of any given discussion.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_fuji View Post
    Well, yeah. If I were talking to half the trolls on this forum in real life, I'd just walk away. On the internet, we're all subject to their trolling, unless we want to ignore their specific posts and deal with gaps in the middle of any given discussion.
    It is possible to "walk away" from trolls in virtual life, too.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    It is possible to "walk away" from trolls in virtual life, too.
    Heck yeah. I’ve had Fredrico on “ignore” for weeks now and it’s been pretty nice. I recommend it.


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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    It is possible to "walk away" from trolls in virtual life, too.
    2 things:

    That's addressed in the second sentence. I've got one particular poster on ignore, but that leaves gaps in the thread, and doesn't work when someone else quotes him, nor does it work on the Tapatalk app.

    Also, I got an error when I made that post this morning and thought it didn't stick. Imagine my surprise when I got a reply notification!
    I lost my phone number. Can I have yours?

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think what he meant by "skin in the game" or lack thereof is the ability now with the internet to be confrontational while staying anonymous.
    That's exactly right. A lot of people will say things online that they would never say in person.

    Sure, there are some people that would actually try to intimidate or get into a physical fight about politics if they were face to face, but I think that's pretty rare.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opus51569 View Post
    I’ve had Fredrico on “ignore” for weeks now and it’s been pretty nice. I recommend it.
    weeks...? srsly late to the party, brah...
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    That's exactly right. A lot of people will say things online that they would never say in person.

    Sure, there are some people that would actually try to intimidate or get into a physical fight about politics if they were face to face, but I think that's pretty rare.
    Uh, do I just hang around with a bunch of *******s? My wife and I have both been intimidated or bullied because of our political beliefs by several people...to the point that we've had to leave family functions because of it...on more than one occasion...

    (that's why I enjoy the circle jerk here...I can discuss my own ideas without fear of ridicule or downright harassment)
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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_fuji View Post
    2 things:

    That's addressed in the second sentence. I've got one particular poster on ignore, but that leaves gaps in the thread, and doesn't work when someone else quotes him, nor does it work on the Tapatalk app.

    Also, I got an error when I made that post this morning and thought it didn't stick. Imagine my surprise when I got a reply notification!
    I am familiar with the problems baked into the "Ignore" function, but the truth is that one can simply not respond to posters.

    I also realize that this is harder to do in practice than in theory:



    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesupra View Post
    That's exactly right. A lot of people will say things online that they would never say in person.

    Sure, there are some people that would actually try to intimidate or get into a physical fight about politics if they were face to face, but I think that's pretty rare.
    Well, then, it sounds like the internet has afforded more frank discussion, letting people say what's really on their minds, unchecked by the threat that the recipient might take a swing at them.

    But if, as you say, that sort of thing is pretty rare, well....
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_fuji View Post
    Uh, do I just hang around with a bunch of *******s? My wife and I have both been intimidated or bullied because of our political beliefs by several people...to the point that we've had to leave family functions because of it...on more than one occasion...

    (that's why I enjoy the circle jerk here...I can discuss my own ideas without fear of ridicule or downright harassment)
    ^This.

    Living in a heavily Republican district as I do, in a state where GOP domination is all but total, I feel your pain.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    weeks...? srsly late to the party, brah...
    Yeah, it was a bit like sitting at a bad slot machine. Eventually, you just have to cut your losses and walk away.


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