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  1. #351
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.ce9b1b19b956

    Trump's paid liars keep telling everyone the investigation is almost over, but Cheeto just hired another lawyer....... who specializes in impeachments.

  2. #352
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    To refer

    [QUOTE=Fredrico;5221797]On the last thought, exactly.

    Slavery was a logical consequence of class distinctions, indentured servitude, monarchies, and belief that Africans were primitive beings that would spiritually benefit from their righteous Christian masters. The White Man's burden. Hannah Arendt's "banality of evil." Colonialism was already underway at the time. Manual labor was also essential to production before the cotton gin rendered it economically obsolete. Once that two-tier society became institutionalized, it took the Civil War to render it illegal and another hundred years to change the hearts of men, still not complete. Not all masters were cruel and violent to their slaves. Many had felicitous relationships. George Washington had children with one of his slaves. She probably loved him as much as he loved her, although neither could have admitted it. So easy to condemn when nuances are righteously overlooked to prove a political point.

    Here's a sample of what I'm talking about:

    [I]What bothers me is that too many people, including those who are supposed to be the gatekeepers of liberal culture, are using these platforms [news media, social sites] to try to shut down the speech of others, ruin their reputations, and publicly humiliate them.

    Your post doesn’t make any sense. White mans burden was a term used for colonialism. Secondly, if you justify slavery through Christianity, show me where Jesus said it’s good to subjugate and profit from another race. Do you think the girls who were held captive in Cleveland for 10years loved the guy because they got pregnant? You can’t just read propaganda and recite Fred. Think, think for yourself. I am of Irish decent so I don’t need any support to explain the suffering of a subjugated people.

  3. #353
    .je
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    The victim mentality of the Alt-Wrong is bizarre

    `Brutal’ Canada has ‘outsmarted our politicians for decades,’ Trump says


    Pathetic victim.

    Last edited by .je; 03-11-2018 at 06:41 AM.

  4. #354
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    With the Orange one in charge I think that Russia is taking the biggest advantage. With NK soon to be second.
    They those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. The problem is you can't teach stupid and history is taught in a classroom.

  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus68 View Post

    Your post doesn’t make any sense. White mans burden was a term used for colonialism. Secondly, if you justify slavery through Christianity, show me where Jesus said it’s good to subjugate and profit from another race. Do you think the girls who were held captive in Cleveland for 10years loved the guy because they got pregnant? You can’t just read propaganda and recite Fred. Think, think for yourself. I am of Irish decent so I don’t need any support to explain the suffering of a subjugated people.
    Synopsized above, and you still don't get it?

    Plantation owners of the time sought cheap labor to pick cotton. They used "primitive" Africans, being excellent manual laborers, strong, gentle, obedient, "like children!" And the masters sought to convert them to Christianity to "save their souls."

    The slaves went along with it. Religion became the wellspring of their culture. Church gatherings were also the only place they could get together and plan political strategies dealing with their masters, a tradition that extended into the Civll Rights movement. They sang spirituals in code, planning plantation escapes and giving directions on the "underground railroad."

    This was the same white man's burden later used to morally justify colonial administrations. How else would an honorable man accept slavery, if he didn't sincerely believe it would do good?

    Of course that's not what Jesus taught. Neither were the Crusades, witch burnings, Jewish holocaust, or the building of the atomic bomb!

    If you think honest assessment of history is propaganda, we're fu@ked.

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Read what you wrote: You referred to "the institutions of learning," and lumped the 90% or so of non-history/poli sci (and also liberal arts, cf. my link to NCES data) into your diatribe about the 10% you don't like.

    Then, you went off on a book you once read, presumably because you think it somehow validates your opinion, and blame "college professors" for it.

    Classic stereotyping, Fredrico.
    I don't have to dislike academics I have issues with. My opinions are definitely not inviable. I admire anyone who's willing to grapple with intellectual challenges. Don't mean to stereotype, only critique a certain number of academics in the humanities, who are by any definition ideologues.

    The physical sciences are at root apolitical. They deal with physical reality, atoms and electons. Everyone starts on the same page, basically. But art, philosophy, history, politics, are about human behavior, all over the map and much more open to interpretation and conflicting theories. So its much harder to pin down "the truth."

    This is the only group in question then--probably less than 10%. They may also have their theories worked out with all the nuances. But as my philosophy professor said numerous times, when a small group of ideologically pure believers catches on and grows into a political force, like the early Christians, their beliefs become codified, institutionalized. They build fancy churches and elite clergy, and believers lose sight of why they became believers in the first place. They betray their original beliefs to preserve tribal unity. Christianity, Hinduism, Muslim, is rife with groups that split off in an effort to restore the original message, as when Martin Luther broke from Catholic dogma and started Protestantism.

    Whattaya think of the quotes above from the NYT op eds? Are they just BS or do they have a point?

  7. #357
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    Trump: "Even if there was collusion with Russia, it's not a crime."

    Sounds like I should be glad all I see is:

    “This message is hidden because Fredrico is on your ignore list”


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  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by frons View Post
    This essay confirms a couple of your link's points.

    The Psychology of Progressive Hostility - Quillette
    A whole raft of brilliant philosophers and Nobel Prize-winning economists lean to the right. The problem is that these people tend to go into business or enter academic fields like engineering, economics, and mathematics. They have therefore surrendered the humanities and what philosopher Roger Scruton has called the ‘fake fields’ of gender and ethnic studies to their political opponents on the Left, who relish their role as the unchallenged shapers of student minds. According to a 2005 survey3 conducted in the United States, there was only one Republican sociology professor in the humanities for every 40 Democrat professors, and we now know the extent of the resentment when views outside the progressive consensus trespass on their territory.
    .....
    Given the current environment, conservatives would be advised to simply abandon academia if they know what’s good for them. On the other hand, it is a problem when a student goes through university where each and every course is taught by a left-leaning professor. For conservative students, the toxic and hostile university environment needn’t cripple their intellectual development. These students arrive at university with conservative ideas and will naturally seek out and read conservative authors in their own time to balance out the latest application of progressive doctrine to which they are subjected in class. The most ambitious will be familiar with both Rand and Marx, Keynes and Hayek, Galbraith and Friedman, Krugman and Sowell, Picketty and Peterson. But we ought to worry about the progressive student who arrives with progressive ideas, and is then showered in class with more of the same and reinforces them in their own time. Such students live in a much smaller cultural universe than the cosmopolitan intellectual world through which the conservative will be made to travel.
    .....
    To put it bluntly, Haidt and his colleagues found that progressives don’t understand conservatives the way conservatives understand progressives. This he calls the ‘conservative advantage,’ and it goes a long way in explaining the different ways each side deals with opinions unlike their own. People get angry at what they don’t understand, and an all-progressive education ensures that they don’t understand.
    .....
    The conservative hears the progressive’s latest demands and says, “I can see how you might come to that conclusion, but I think you’ve overlooked the following…” In contrast, the progressive hears the conservative and thinks, “I have no idea why you would believe that. You’re probably a racist.”
    Good stuff. Defines the problem quite well.

  9. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Putin said Russia has neither the tools nor the will to meddle in elections. He repeatedly complained during the interview that Washington has brushed off Russian initiatives to work together on cybersecurity issues.

    Gosh, really? So where's the falsification on that assertion? True or false?

    Also, Russia has a history of conflicts with Tatars, and now Ukrainians. Putin threw in Jews for effect, as he's a lot closer to Israel than the US is, and his strategic interests may periodically conflict with Israel's.

    You snarked his put down of "Jews" out of context, doc. Context is everything in political discourse.

  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Synopsized above, and you still don't get it?

    Plantation owners of the time sought cheap labor to pick cotton. They used "primitive" Africans, being excellent manual laborers, strong, gentle, obedient, "like children!" And the masters sought to convert them to Christianity to "save their souls."

    The slaves went along with it. Religion became the wellspring of their culture. Church gatherings were also the only place they could get together and plan political strategies dealing with their masters, a tradition that extended into the Civll Rights movement. They sang spirituals in code, planning plantation escapes and giving directions on the "underground railroad."

    This was the same white man's burden later used to morally justify colonial administrations. How else would an honorable man accept slavery, if he didn't sincerely believe it would do good?

    Of course that's not what Jesus taught. Neither were the Crusades, witch burnings, Jewish holocaust, or the building of the atomic bomb!

    If you think honest assessment of history is propaganda, we're fu@ked.
    Slaves went along with it? I thought the comment about how Catholics worship the pope was silly but you topped it. The British threatened to free the slaves during the revolutionary war and the rich white landowners were scared to death. What history classes, books or what taught you this notion that ,
    ‘slaves went along with it’

  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus68 View Post
    Slaves went along with it? I thought the comment about how Catholics worship the pope was silly but you topped it. The British threatened to free the slaves during the revolutionary war and the rich white landowners were scared to death. What history classes, books or what taught you this notion that ,
    ‘slaves went along with it’
    Sorry to mislead you!

    The slaves had little choice but to "go along with it." They'd get beaten to a pulp if they didn't. Read Lerone Bennett, "Before the Mayflower."

    The British DID end slavery in their colonies. So did the Spanish, French, and Portuguese. But the American plantation owners gave the finger to British authority and kept slavery going until the Civil War.

    My mother used to tell us back in the Fifties, members of her church, the Plymouth Brethren, actually believed Catholics thought the Popes were morally pure, superior, holy men, close to Jesus, with a fast track to God mere mortals could never attain. "Worshipped" was surely an exaggeration, but the Brethren believed it about the Catholics. The Brethren wanted their own fast track to God, bypassing the Popes. That was a central issue with Protestants.

    You'll have a hard time getting that thought from Catholics today, and probably would have back in fifties, too. But 75 years ago many evangelical Protestant groups actually believed the Popes were false gods claiming moral authority, viz. "anti-Christ." Don't laugh. These people are still around, strong in the good ole USA. Pope Paul changed that dynamic, in an effort to unify Christianity, fast losing moral authority on the shrinking planet. Now the Popes are more or less accepted, as spiritual advisors, but they don't have the status they had in history.

    Please don't assume I approve of slavers and xenophobic Christians. That's scary, man!

  12. #362
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    Roger Stone bragged in the spring of 2016 that he had a phone call with WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange in which he was warned about the John Podesta and Democratic National Committee email leaks, well before the hacking became public knowledge

    ​​​​​​​https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.29d85d6572b8

  13. #363
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    Ok, this is just pure comedy:

    "GOP comes to collusion-free conclusion despite failing to interview Manafort, Flynn, and Papadopoulos."

    “Democrats say the committee has raced through its final interviews, while allowing witnesses to pick and choose which questions they answer,” CNN reported.

    https://thinkprogress.org/house-comm...-50732cdc4b5f/
    "When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

  14. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Protestant groups actually believed the Popes were false gods claiming moral authority, viz. "anti-Christ." Don't laugh. These people are still around, strong in the good ole USA. Pope Paul changed that dynamic, in an effort to unify Christianity, fast losing moral authority on the shrinking planet.
    While batshut crazy, the protestents had and still have a legit beef with the Pope. And no Pope ever took the idea serious of 'unifying christianity.' Every Pope leading up until the last german guy have been entrenched partisans with no quarter given to other ideas. The closest thing they've had to an open minded Dalai-Lama type is Francis, but he's surrounded by an entire World full of partisan Catholic leadership.

    Christianity is hopelessly splintered into vendetta-obsessed factions, just as Islam and other religions are. There will be more wars about it too.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  15. #365
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    Case Closed

    No collusion


    Has it sunk in yet?

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Case Closed

    No collusion


    Has it sunk in yet?
    Surely you're not referring to that farce of a House Intelligence Committee finding, are you? The one where they didn't call Manafort, Flynn or Papadopoulos? Where they cut short the witness interview portion of the investigation? Where they allowed witnesses to pick and choose which questions they answer?
    "When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

  17. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeBean2 View Post
    Surely you're not referring to that farce of a House Intelligence Committee finding, are you? The one where they didn't call Manafort, Flynn or Papadopoulos? Where they cut short the witness interview portion of the investigation? Where they allowed witnesses to pick and choose which questions they answer?
    So it hasn't sunk in.

  18. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Case Closed
    The fake investigation? Good! Just a waste of taxpayer resources watching the tail wag the dog.
    Maybe now they can focus on real issues... like benghazi, emails, and uranium.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    Case Closed

    No collusion


    Has it sunk in yet?
    Similarly, after a thorough investigation, white supremacists have determined that Hitler committed no crime and the holocaust never happened. Case closed.

  20. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeBean2 View Post
    Surely you're not referring to that farce of a House Intelligence Committee finding, are you? The one where they didn't call Manafort, Flynn or Papadopoulos? Where they cut short the witness interview portion of the investigation? Where they allowed witnesses to pick and choose which questions they answer?
    Don't feed the trolls.
    What's the Matter with Kansas?

  21. #371
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    Does any reasonable person really think that Putin was not trying to help Trump win the 2016 election?

  22. #372
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    Oh, it’s sunk in. It’s sunk in that the same committee that prematurely ended their Russian collusion investigation is the same committee that needed 7 Benghazi investigations.

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeBean2 View Post
    Ok, this is just pure comedy:

    "GOP comes to collusion-free conclusion despite failing to interview Manafort, Flynn, and Papadopoulos."

    “Democrats say the committee has raced through its final interviews, while allowing witnesses to pick and choose which questions they answer,” CNN reported.

    https://thinkprogress.org/house-comm...-50732cdc4b5f/
    How about that timing, huh? Right on the eve of this PA election. A plug for the Trumpster, gettin' the faithful out to the polls! Probably Trump's idea!

    Lamb [Great name! ] is slightly ahead, but man, its a close race!

  24. #374
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    So Rex Tillerson comments on how Russia was involved in the murder of the retired spy and his daughter in England and he is quickly fired by Trump. It is pretty obvious that the Donald knows to whom he is indebted.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWC View Post
    Similarly, after a thorough investigation, white supremacists have determined that Hitler committed no crime and the holocaust never happened. Case closed.
    That's a pretty sloppy brush, ya got there.

    The lines are all indistinct between Trump specifically, and the operatives in his campaign who had previous connections to the Russians, to talk to them about dropping sanctions, and as a further carrot, to find dirt on Hillary.

    What I'm reading says the interference was primarily against Hillary. Sure, it was negative ads intended to turn Hillary voters off and stir up Trump voters, but they didn't expect him to win. So they succeeded serendipitously. They lucked out.

    Trump claims innocence. So far, no proof otherwise. The growing threads of suspicious collusion lead to Russian diplomatic efforts to end sanctions, legitimate political business, and financial transactions having nothing to do with the Trump campaign, viz. laundering money to get around sanctions; and a few American adventurists cashing in on the Russian oligarchs' obscene wealth.

    That's why Mueller is putting off the obstruction of justice part of his investigation. That's all he's got left. It got Nixon on Watergate, but criminal theft of opposition party documents is far more egregious to American democracy than Russian blogs posting fake news ads on Twitter and phishing e-mails in the DNC. Their propaganda didn't go over. It failed. Their whole shtick has been "compromised," so it won't work anymore.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 03-13-2018 at 10:04 PM.

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