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  1. #1
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    Cav final sprint

    Looking at the Head on View of the sprint, Cav's wheels were moving laterally in a very large way, as opposed to the others...

    I kinda believe Cav was riding sloppy and not getting the most benefit of his power...
    Or did the cobble stones, in the evening, present a factor ...
    or
    did he have the wrong tyres...

    AND yes, the bottom line , he got beat...

  2. #2
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    His bike was jumping around on the rough surface. It looked like it was only in the last second or two so not sure it was a factor, but perhaps a Spesh Roubaix rather than a Venge next time? ;-)

    He was gaining on both Kittel and Greipel despite not being in their drafts, but just not quite enough.
    ... 'cuz that's how I roll.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by looigi View Post
    His bike was jumping around on the rough surface. It looked like it was only in the last second or two so not sure it was a factor, but perhaps a Spesh Roubaix rather than a Venge next time? ;-)

    He was gaining on both Kittel and Greipel despite not being in their drafts, but just not quite enough.
    I kept watching the replays--but you couldn't quite see where exactly the worst hop was--in one slo-mo it looked like he did bunny hop, and you could see the rough stone underneath that launched him...

    What I kept seeing was the initial bad placement out of the corner--he was already gapped (but I could never see why--the camera angles were bad) and then (unlike previous years) he was up against sprinters who can closely match him for speed. So he did seem to be gaining until the little hop--but he was not gaining like he has in the past...
    "When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking."

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  4. #4
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    Argos Shimano pulled a High Road and stole the lead out going into the Chicane. OPQS couldn't deliver Cav and his leadout through the final corner 1st. He left Steegmans wheel to jump on Griepel who was tailing Kittel. Cav was just going as hard as he could and tossing the bike left and right which over those stones caused some serious hop. He hit a hard dip at about 5-7 meters from the line that caused his back wheel to pop up about 6 inches off the road.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    Argos Shimano pulled a High Road and stole the lead out going into the Chicane. OPQS couldn't deliver Cav and his leadout through the final corner 1st. He left Steegmans wheel to jump on Griepel who was tailing Kittel. Cav was just going as hard as he could and tossing the bike left and right which over those stones caused some serious hop. He hit a hard dip at about 5-7 meters from the line that caused his back wheel to pop up about 6 inches off the road.
    That exactly what I thought, Argos HTCed Cav. I thought it was game over when Argos, as they have done most of the tour, let other teams start their sprint trains first and then work their way up a bit latter. QS was absolutely knackered by the time they needed to move Cav up. Also, Cav has practically torn his bike apart in sprints before, so that didn't surprise me.
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  6. #6
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    Credit Kittel too. I think at this point he's at least as fast as Cav head to head - if not faster.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamM View Post
    Credit Kittel too. I think at this point he's at least as fast as Cav head to head - if not faster.
    Yep. Kittel is younger, bigger, and can only get faster. By this time next year, I reckon Cav will struggle to beat Kittel.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamM View Post
    Credit Kittel too. I think at this point he's at least as fast as Cav head to head - if not faster.
    Well, he beat Cav head to head twice, so it's safe to say that he is faster than Cav.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gusmahler View Post
    Well, he beat Cav head to head twice, so it's safe to say that he is faster than Cav.
    I agree. Kittel is #1 at this point in time. Cav will have to get some serious training/re-thinking in. I think he has to settle for being a pure sprinter and forget about beating Sagan for the Points Jersey next year + his train was clearly outgunned on several occasions during this Tour.

  10. #10
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    Too early to start proclaiming one definitely faster than the other. Kittel was in the best position to win and he did. Cav needs to get his train on board with tactics, something HTC seemed to be natural at. Argos got it right this year, hats off to them....

  11. #11
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    Re: Cav final sprint

    The game has changed, when he started htc was the leadout train. Other riders had to fight for position in it. This year he was the other rider fighting for position.
    It also look as though the gap between Grieple and the barrier was closing and he slowed his acceleration a bit.

    Anyways like there are so many teams fighting for leadout trains right now which changes the strategy. Not as "easy" as it was.

  12. #12
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    Kittel is really fast and they worked it. Things will get more interesting again next year when Renshaw is back w/ Cav. Should be awesome to watch.
    i work for some bike racers...
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    oh, those belong in another forum

  13. #13
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    Kittel and Griepel had a gap on Cav

    Cav wasn't getting much draft and was gaining on them both. Cav had to slow a bit because Griepel started going right, then when Andre went left Cav jumped a second time and still almost caught them both while doing a nollie

    Cav still has better acceleration than either. Kittel can hold a high speed for slightly longer. Kittel sprints more like Mario, comes out of a fast draft and holds, doesn't have the Cav / McEwen burst. Kittel is the future if Argos goes full lead out. Cav will be hard to beat with Renshaw. OPQS should do this Martin, Chavanel, Steegmans, Boonen, Renshaw and then Cav. That would be a mother of a leadout from 2 to 3K out
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    Cav wasn't getting much draft and was gaining on them both. Cav had to slow a bit because Griepel started going right, then when Andre went left Cav jumped a second time and still almost caught them both while doing a nollie...
    That's pretty much the way I saw it...
    ... 'cuz that's how I roll.

  15. #15
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    I agree with the Boonen-Renshaw-Cav approach in the final. One of the reasons HTC was so effective was Hincapie. You need to put out a lot of power for 500meters in that third to last position
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Man View Post
    Too early to start proclaiming one definitely faster than the other. Kittel was in the best position to win and he did. Cav needs to get his train on board with tactics, something HTC seemed to be natural at. Argos got it right this year, hats off to them....
    Same DS and Zabel is still his sprint "adviser," no?

    I think his completing the Giro had more to do with the losses than his train.

  17. #17
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    It did not seem that Cav was ever on form.

  18. #18
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    hmm the way I saw it was:

    1) Cav was drafting Griepel (as Griepel was drafting Kittel), and Cav gained ground on both Griepel and Kittel
    2) Then Cav decided to pull out of Griepel's slipstream, and when he pulled out, he also ceased to make any ground on Griepel (the 2 guys basically hold position).
    3) Griepel then pulled out of Kittel's slipstream
    4) when Griepel pulled out of Kittel's slipstream, Cav then took advantage and jumped into Kittel's slipstream, which allowed Cav to momentarily gain ground on both of the Germans
    5) finally as Cav saw the finishline, he pulled out of Kittel's slipstream but could not beat the 2 Germans at the finishline

    Cav, of all guys, is an experienced sprinter. Cav was behind the 2 fastest men in the peloton, effectively giving him the fastest leadout train in the peloton, no? He was in the perfect position, and he failed to deliver.

    Now some of you suggested that Cav either slowed down because he either saw the baracades coming or that Griepel moved to the right. Really? This is the same Cav who will intentionally run into a guy (Kittel's teammate) to get into a slipstream of another rider's slipstream. Cav seems to be the type that will do anything and everything to win a sprint. So... to say Cav was playing cautious because he saw some baracades or Griepel... sorry but that's not his nature, not on the largest sprinting stage of his calendar year. He was gunning for it but just failed, is what I saw.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pr0230 View Post
    Looking at the Head on View of the sprint, Cav's wheels were moving laterally in a very large way, as opposed to the others...

    I kinda believe Cav was riding sloppy and not getting the most benefit of his power...
    Or did the cobble stones, in the evening, present a factor ...
    or



    did he have the wrong tyres...

    AND yes, the bottom line , he got beat...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local Hero View Post
    It did not seem that Cav was ever on form.
    He was flying in the Giro, but it took too much out of him. There were a couple of times when he was seen barfing at the roadside.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by looigi View Post
    That's pretty much the way I saw it...
    that's cause that's how it went
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by atpjunkie View Post
    OPQS should do this Martin, Chavanel, Steegmans, Boonen, Renshaw and then Cav. That would be a mother of a leadout from 2 to 3K out
    1) never get into a land war in Asia
    2) never put a Frenchman in a leadout train.
    * posted by Creakybot 2013 all rights reserved.
    * not actually waterproof.

  23. #23
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    Looks like Kittel is the guy to beat as indirectly admitted by Cav in an interview where he realistically said that theres always someone coming up that is faster referring to Kittel,its obvious to me me in a head to head amongst the 4 sprinters that Kittel IS FASTER,just too much power ,also disappointing to see Sagan get intimidated somehow by the others,looks like he just let Cav go by him in one sprint & didnt even try in another.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
    1) never get into a land war in Asia
    2) never put a Frenchman in a leadout train.
    I don't know man...Chavanel was a total boss this tour.

    Meersman was riding so well this spring. In retrospect I am surprised he wasn't on the tour squad.
    I hate you all

    j/k lol kthxbye!

  25. #25
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    Cavendish had a bike/wheel change once in Paris and had to chase back on and THROUGH the peloton. This no doubt wasted some valuable energy.

    Key to any sprinter's success is their leadout train. Maybe Cavendish had a good one in the Giro, but I think his "unstoppable" years were with HTC when he had the best leadout train in the business. OPQS just isn't comprised of people to support Cav's sprint at the HTC level.

    And sprinters do peak earlier in their careers than the aerobic boys. It may be he's past his prime.

    The skittering wheel near the line was due to Cavendish's low, forward, out of the saddle sprint position which drastically unweights the bike. He had plenty of laps to know where the bumps were so it's not like the tarmac caught him off-guard. I doubt tire pressure was as much of an issue as his weight distribution over the bike, but one has to wonder how much the ever stiffer carbon frames contributed to the skipping tire. I don't feel it contributed to his loss, however.

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