Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: skygodmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    804

    1989 Tour de France time trial...Lemond rocked!

    Do you guys remember the 1989 Lemond time trial in the Tour?
    He averaged almost 35 mph! That's gotta be hard to average. It set a world record. Pretty darn impressive since back in 1989 they didn't have wind tunnel testing, special fabrics, carbon fiber, or any of the trick time saving componets.

    I don't care how you cut it. Lemond rocked.

    What I am wondering is how long the record stood before someone broke it?

    Matt P.
    "People ask me what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on my bike - busting my ass - six hours a day. What are you on?"
    Lance Armstrong

  2. #2
    Gruntled
    Reputation: Jim Nazium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,809
    Quote Originally Posted by skygodmatt
    What I am wondering is how long the record stood before someone broke it?
    The record (highest average speed in a Tour de France time trial) stood until Dave Zabriske broke it in 2005, which means it stood for 15 years despite all the advances in equipment and testing. However, the '89 TT was really short (25 km) and at least part of it was downhill, so it's not a fair comparison to most other TDF TTs.

    That said, for my money it was one of the most impressive feats in any sporting event, ever. He had a 55 second deficit to Fignon which everyone thought was insurmountable.
    It's funny until someone gets hurt. Then it's hilarious.

  3. #3
    banned
    Reputation: crossboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    250
    Your dam right he rocked. Does ayone know the results fo his test that day? Did they test him like they test Floyd and Lance?

  4. #4
    Yo no fui.
    Reputation: Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,776
    All the 90s are a drug-induced blur. In the long-run, I sort of think that there will be an EPO asterick alongside the 90s in cycling, just like baseball's "drug era."
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    11,551
    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo
    All the 90s are a drug-induced blur. In the long-run, I sort of think that there will be an EPO asterick alongside the 90s in cycling, just like baseball's "drug era."
    Except in cycling it's all relative (e.g. wins come against others with likely the same access to dope) or so highly variable (wind, technology changes, net elevation change, etc. greatly effect TT performance) that it's hard to make comparisons.

    It would seem the most objective comparison would be climb records, many of which were set during the era of unrestrained EPO use. Even then you've got take into account where the climb was in the race (e.g. Pantani vs. Armstrong's Alp d'Huez time), wind, etc.

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    758
    You got it backwards... baseball has a much more even doping field then cycling.

    Minimum salary in MLB is almost $400,000. Everyone in MLB can afford the dope if they want to take it. Even reading Jose Canseco's book it was not a problem affording dope on a minor league salary, he and McGuire were juicing before they hit the big leagues and started making lots of money.

    IIRC lots of pro cyclists make well under $100,000 and the drugs that they take are far more expensive then steroids. EPO for example is extremely expensive. Up to $500/dose. That alone probably means it's use in the Peloton was lower then we might think. Domestiques, etc.. were probably not on it.

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    11,551
    Quote Originally Posted by benInMA
    EPO for example is extremely expensive. Up to $500/dose. That alone probably means it's use in the Peloton was lower then we might think. Domestiques, etc.. were probably not on it.
    Except according to the dopers themselves EPO was the affordable drug (and I would argue the indispensable one if you wanted to compete), it was (is) the blood transfusions that required lots of money and were only accessable by the big riders with deep pockets. And ironically enough, the doping technique with the most security since it was and still is undetectable.

  8. #8
    Get me to In&Out
    Reputation: spookyload's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,634
    If you go to youtube.com and put 1989 tour de france in the search, you can pull up the video replay of that event. Very cool to watch.
    Cyclists really need to learn a little Rule #5.

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    758
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry
    Except according to the dopers themselves EPO was the affordable drug (and I would argue the indispensable one if you wanted to compete), it was (is) the blood transfusions that required lots of money and were only accessable by the big riders with deep pockets. And ironically enough, the doping technique with the most security since it was and still is undetectable.
    You may be right but that doesn't change anything I said. If EPO is cheaper then blood transfusions it's still 10x more expensive then steroids & pro cyclists still earn less then baseball & football players, so the effort to dope effectively is still harder for the cyclist.

    e.x. I just looked up nandrolone.. a cycle of that is $56/month. Pretty sure I've seen that steroid referenced on weight lifting sites before.

    They all seem to like HgH though and that is ridiculously expensive.. $30k/yr?

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    11,551
    Quote Originally Posted by benInMA
    They all seem to like HgH though and that is ridiculously expensive.. $30k/yr?
    And of questionable effectiveness in healthy people, but undetectable so why not (at least when it comes to pro athletes)?

  11. #11
    Yo no fui.
    Reputation: Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,776
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne Barry
    Except in cycling it's all relative (e.g. wins come against others with likely the same access to dope) or so highly variable (wind, technology changes, net elevation change, etc. greatly effect TT performance) that it's hard to make comparisons.

    It would seem the most objective comparison would be climb records, many of which were set during the era of unrestrained EPO use. Even then you've got take into account where the climb was in the race (e.g. Pantani vs. Armstrong's Alp d'Huez time), wind, etc.
    Good point, although I was not really thinking about about objective statistics. I do see your point that it is relative. Food for thought.

    I was instead referring more generally to a cloud of illegtimacy. For example, when you see Bartoli ride Jaja off his wheel without attacking in Liege. Sure, it's all relative if everyone was doing it, but it still seems tainted in my mind.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  12. #12
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by crossboy
    Your dam right he rocked. Does ayone know the results fo his test that day? Did they test him like they test Floyd and Lance?
    Yes, he was tested and the results were negative. Drug testing in cycling started in the 60's.

    Since you brought up Lance's test's I assume you are referring to the lack of an approved EPO test for much of lance's career, and the fact that when there finally was a test available that 6 of his samples from the 99 tour tested positive.

  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    11,551
    Quote Originally Posted by bigpinkt
    Yes, he was tested and the results were negative. Drug testing in cycling started in the 60's.
    Pretty much everyone agrees that prior to WADA, testing in cycling was a joke and the further back you go the bigger the joke. You basically had to do something incredibly stupid and not have the right connections to fail a drug test and not get out of it. Great stories in Willy Voet's book about the same doctors doping riders who were in charge of the doping contols! Used to be easy to swap urine, etc. Famous story about one poor rider who substituted a mechanic's urine for his own, only to fail the dope test because the mechanic had popped some speed but forgot about it.

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    11,551
    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo
    For example, when you see Bartoli ride Jaja off his wheel without attacking in Liege. Sure, it's all relative if everyone was doing it, but it still seems tainted in my mind.
    In my mind I just think "when wasn't it tainted". Post WWII the riders openly used amphetamines, they really only had to start keeping that under the table once Simpson keeled over on the Ventoux. Voet's book basically portrays most of the big riders of the 80's as speed freaks. Taking injections ("charges" I think he called them) for meaningless post-tour criteriums because they couldn't get by without the stuff.

  15. #15
    Yo no fui.
    Reputation: Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,776
    Again, good point. Perhaps it's my relative youth but the EPO era seems different, if only slightly, as evidenced by the sudden acceleration of the peloton. I agree, however, that it's a matter of degree.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  16. #16
    banned
    Reputation: crossboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    250
    Lance made more in 1 year than Lemond made in his entire career. Plus, he got a celebrity rock star status and he was baggin Sheryl Crow. No wonder Lemond has bad feelings about the guy. He loved Floyd, but what does Floyd have anyomore. Nothing. He!!, he is sending me emails to try to get money from me for his legal defense. LOL

    I guess the check he sent me after signing a big deal with Phonak got lost in the mail. Better yet, Tugboat, or whatever's Tylers dog's name was must have eaten it.

  17. #17
    Yo no fui.
    Reputation: Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,776
    The true measure of any cyclist is undoubtedly the number of rock stars he fraternizes with and the amount of money he made. Give me a break.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  18. #18
    banned
    Reputation: crossboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    250
    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo
    The true measure of any cyclist is undoubtedly the number of rock stars he fraternizes with and the amount of money he made. Give me a break.
    Uhhh, why not. Oh yeah, he did win some races in his career.

  19. #19
    Michigoose
    Reputation: MellowDramatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    821
    I smell a troll.

  20. #20
    It's in the game!
    Reputation: dagger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,087
    Me thinks that Greg Lemond started this thread himself.

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: skygodmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    804

    I posted this thread.....

    ...and it's interesting that the focus shifted from a fast time trial....to talking about dope.

    I'm just saying in 1989 there were some good riders and it showed.

    Oh, btw...I am not affiliated with Greg Lemond.

    Matt P.
    "People ask me what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on my bike - busting my ass - six hours a day. What are you on?"
    Lance Armstrong

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: coinstar2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    426
    It is even more amazing considering he wore a helmet that was like a parachute, and his top competition didn't wear one.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    11,551
    Quote Originally Posted by coinstar2k
    It is even more amazing considering he wore a helmet that was like a parachute, and his top competition didn't wear one.
    Maybe I'm mistaken but isn't that the one where he used the Aero bars and no one else did? You'd think that gave him a pretty big advantage regardless.

  24. #24
    Yo no fui.
    Reputation: Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,776
    I've seen pictures of his helmet and I'm not so convinced that it would create that much more drag than Fignon's ponytail.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: coinstar2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    426
    They calculated that the bars gave him about a 1 minute advantage, but the helmet was an overall drag of over 3 minutes. This info comes straight from him when he visited my bike shop a few years ago.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

INTERBIKE

Contest

Hot Deals See All Hot Deals >>

Interbike Featured Booths

Check out the hottest road bike products from these brands!



















See All Interbike Coverage - Click Here »


Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook