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  1. #1
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    Andy Schleck doesn't like going down hill

    Im pretty disappointed, but if this is what people want to see, a race decided on a downhill, Andy Schleck said. I dont think that. A finish like this should not be allowed.
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...-a-hole_184992

    You're right Andy, lets finish every stage up a hill. In fact, lets just race up hill all day and only take the team bus down after the stages. Lets cancel the stage if it rains. Lets never have a sprint finish. Lets never have a TT.

    I, in fact, like my winners to be good overall riders. Its good to have skills beyond the pedal a bike fast up hill. I thought the four mountain top finishes this year would be too many, but obviously the GC riders didn't make much use of the first two anyway.

  2. #2
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    what a pansy

  3. #3
    ultralord
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    He's not going to like tomorrow.

    His stock is going down by the minute.

    fc

  4. #4
    Schmuck
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    Ya know...Im much more in Andy's camp on this topic than Id like to admit. I think the organizers do try to make the course "the story" and make it a bit too complex at times. The Crotsis descent is one of those times. That ridiclous stage in the Giro with 22,000 feet of climbing that took eight hours to finish is one of those times. Heck, even including the cobbles in last year's Tour could to some...be considered one of those times.

    But today..... is defintiely NOT one of those times.

    Shut up and race, Andy.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by krott5333 View Post
    what a pansy
    Come on - he may have a point. Not that I agree with it 100%, but one could argue that it is reasonable for GC contenders not to take crazy risks on technical downhills in bad weather. I would like for the race to be decided on who has the best fitness, not who is willing to take the most risks.

  6. #6
    World's 1st Anal-rapist
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    I really try to buy into him, but there is something I just can't put my finger on that keeps me from going full in on him. His body language on the bike is something I have a hard time watching. I have to admit I am rooting for Cadel. That dude has been the bridesmaid one too many times. he ain't pretty, but I think he can taste it and will do everything it takes.
    Oh, I've been in the film business for a while, but I just can't seem to get one in the can.

    O-kay, who'd like a banger in the mouth? Right, I forgot, here in the States, you call it a *sausage* in the mouth.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55x11 View Post
    Come on - he may have a point. Not that I agree with it 100%, but one could argue that it is reasonable for GC contenders not to take crazy risks on technical downhills in bad weather. I would like for the race to be decided on who has the best fitness, not who is willing to take the most risks.
    It's a bike race not a fitness contest.

    The riders provide a spectacle and descending is one of the best.

    The Schlecks are simply poor descenders so of course the descents are going to be relatively dangerous to them.

  8. #8
    Yo no fui.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55x11 View Post
    Come on - he may have a point. Not that I agree with it 100%, but one could argue that it is reasonable for GC contenders not to take crazy risks on technical downhills in bad weather. I would like for the race to be decided on who has the best fitness, not who is willing to take the most risks.
    The portion of your statement I underlined is exactly what has been wrong with the Tour in modern times, in my opinion. A bike race should be more than a fitness test. It should be a challeneg with real world obstacles, risks and rewards.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  9. #9
    Still waiting......
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    [QUOTE=55x11;3458877I would like for the race to be decided on who has the best fitness[/QUOTE]

    Isn't there more to bike racing is more than just fitness? Tactics? Bike handling?

    Are technical TT's unfair? A less fit rider that can corner could easily beat a more fit rider, and the more fit rider could then whine that the winner took too many risks. (we should ask Rasmussen about this)

    Who gets to decide when a descent is too scary and should be neutralized? You'd get very different answers from Sammy and Andy. Luckily, Il Falco is retired.
    AKA - Go Dot

  10. #10
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    Contador lost a few seconds to Evans after putting in all the effort on the climb. Did I hear him bit*hing?

    Voeckler lost time to Evans, Contador and Sanchez. Did he whinge and whine about the parcours?

    Andy is fast looking like the spoilt brat who can't take losing. And I think today might be clarifying in his own mind that he isn't going to win the Tour this year. Or even take second to Bertie and hope for a CAS present in August.
    Last edited by MattSoutherden; 07-19-2011 at 01:39 PM.
    Laterally stiff yet vertically compliant.

  11. #11
    What it is
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    I really thought that Andy had a good chance at winning the tour but not now after that statement. You can't expect to win if you say I don't do descents or ITTs.

  12. #12
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    Sounds like Andy is more interested in a computrainer race.

  13. #13
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    as a spectator, i love watching these guys with their skill and stones going downhill at insane speeds. Andy needs to stop whining. anyway he got dropped on the climb.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55x11 View Post
    I would like for the race to be decided on who has the best fitness, not who is willing to take the most risks.
    If you follow this reasoning through, we could just hook all the riders up to computrainers, adjust the resistance according to their bodyweight, and press start.

    Bike racing involves ascents, descents, dangerous conditions, corners, tactics, etc. Fitness is just one part of it.

  15. #15
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    After today, you knew it was coming . . . here's Andy on descending (xtranormal vid):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubEfM5npOvo

  16. #16
    World's 1st Anal-rapist
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    This race is about all aspects of racing. That is what makes it, the Giro, the Vuelta, so special. They test everything a bike rider can do, not just who's in the best shape. Personally, I can't believe how bad some of these riders are at bike handling. It blows my mind.
    Oh, I've been in the film business for a while, but I just can't seem to get one in the can.

    O-kay, who'd like a banger in the mouth? Right, I forgot, here in the States, you call it a *sausage* in the mouth.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by serpico7 View Post
    After today, you knew it was coming . . . here's Andy on descending (xtranormal vid):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubEfM5npOvo
    Fantastic!

  18. #18
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    I think this might be one of those "in the heat of the moment" comments, much like Farrar's about Cav taking car rides up hill. They caught A.Schleck right after the finish when he learned of his time losses, was wet (doubled his weight), tired, cold and probably quite emotional. He was speaking his true mind likely, but still something we shouldn't totally judge him on. Now his descending skills we saw, YES, that's something we can judge him on...and on that he seems to suck. The TT, we'll see Saturday.

    I still like the guy, although not a beastly rider like Cav, Thor or even Cadel now, but he's still a good rider (up a hill, with no shifting, rain, bad wind, or fast attacks like el Pistelero).

  19. #19
    Eat fried chicken.
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    Andy, would you like some cheese with that whine?
    "Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man."--The Dude

  20. #20
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    New strategy

    What if the Schlecks tag team the descent? First Andy goes fast while Frank is more careful. Then Frank bombs some wet corners while Andy puts on some warm rain gear and so on. Surely after that, Evans and the others will be just exhausted and the sun will come out.
    "It's supposed to be automatic, but actually you have to push this button. "
    John Brunner (Stand on Zanzibar)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    The portion of your statement I underlined is exactly what has been wrong with the Tour in modern times, in my opinion. A bike race should be more than a fitness test. It should be a challeneg with real world obstacles, risks and rewards.
    in a year when Wouter Weylands has crashed and tragically died, and when we had a Tour with unusually high number of dangerous crashes and serious injuries with many riders out as a result, are you seriously advocating for more dangerous roads, with "obstacle and risks"?

    The bike race is ALL about fitness, not who can break the least number of bones.

    I really detest Versus' promotions on the TV that show highlights of all crashes so far telling us how this tour is "EPIC". This is NOT what is epic about the tour.

    It's hard for any of us to judge how dangerous those roads were, but when was it the last time you descended at 50mph in the rain on switchbacks?

    The only real problem I have with Schleck's statement is that it would read differently if he had actually dominated the mountains. Instead, he played it safe in the mountains and now loses time on the descent and complains about it. It looks a bit whiny.

    But in terms of the basic question about whether the Tour should try to make it more dangerous or less dangerous for the riders, you know where I stand now.

  22. #22
    JSR
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    Andy seemed to be afraid of getting Beloki-itis. I suppose it's somewhat understandable considering that descent ruined Beloki's career. Of course it was blazing hot and sunny that day. If only ASO would man up and put some controls on the weather - what are they thinking?

    OTOH, we got treated to another display of Andy motioning the MJ to ride more aggresively on the climb. Very dooshy.

    JSR

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by godot View Post

    Who gets to decide when a descent is too scary and should be neutralized?
    Who gets to say something when a descent is too scary (=dangerous)? I think riders should be able to say something. Without couch potato fans like you and me calling them whiners when they do.

    If Schleck thought the course was too dangerous, he should be able to say so - just because he happens to lose time as a result does not disqualify him from an opinion.

    I admitted in original post, I am somewhat split on this topic. I have NOT ridden the descent in the rain, but neither did you. To declare his complaint as whiny is wrong. I think this type of feedback is something tour organizers should consider seriously, not make it custom-made for fans who want to see more dangerous descents for entertainment value.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by serpico7 View Post
    If you follow this reasoning through, we could just hook all the riders up to computrainers, adjust the resistance according to their bodyweight, and press start.

    Bike racing involves ascents, descents, dangerous conditions, corners, tactics, etc. Fitness is just one part of it.
    not every argument should be taken to extreme to make it into your favorite straw man. I never said we need to use computrainers, just that GC riders shouldn't feel they need to risk their lives to win the race.

    The real question(s) you need to ask is:
    Do you want to see more dangerous Tour route or less dangerous?
    Do you want to see MORE crashes or LESS crashes?

  25. #25
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    In the last year Lance did the Giro they complained that on one of the descents they were hitting 70 mph in wet conditions on a chase toward the finish. I can't say that's the case today but there's been plenty of times where Tour and other large race organizers have not fully taken into account the speeds the riders will hit descending and not always take into account doing it in poor weather conditions. Though it is pretty widely known the Schlecks can't TT or go downhill very well... But this all becomes moot if Andy or Frank can pop away from the group on one of the true mountain days.

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