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  1. #26
    Rollin' Stones
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    Specialized just released a frame with a water bladder inside the frame. their "Transition" I think? I bet that gets nailed too.
    I want rustlers, cutthroats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con-men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull-dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, sh**-kickers, and Methodists!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cydswipe View Post
    Specialized just released a frame with a water bladder inside the frame. their "Transition" I think? I bet that gets nailed too.
    The SHIV? Don't think it matters - I believe the down tube does not meet the 3:1 specs.

    The SHIV TT should remain UCI legal however.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cydswipe View Post
    Specialized just released a frame with a water bladder inside the frame. their "Transition" I think? I bet that gets nailed too.
    Specialized came out with two models of the Shiv...One is for cycling TT's the other for Triathlons.

    The one with the water bottle mounted in the frame is triathlon specific and not UCI legal. It also uses a wider than 3:1 downtube and other areas that save watts through frame efficiency that are not allowed under UCI rules.

    The cycling TT Shiv complies with all "Current" UCI rules and does not include a water bottle in the frame, nor does it go past the 3:1 tubing rules of the UCI.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    If pro cycling really was only about competition between riders than they would all ride identical bikes except for the needed size differences to account for rider height etc...That would be the only way to really "just" have competition between riders since it would greatly minimize the material differences.

    As for the aero frames, I do know quite a bit about those things and wouldn't mind a return to them at all. I think it was foolish of the UCI to attempt to "control" the evolution of the bicycle to fit their idea of what cycling traditionally encompasses and looks like.

    Why not let the engineers run wild? Natural selection based upon results/wins will let us figure out what works and what doesn't. Self-imposed limitations and stagnation of the development of the bicycle only limits creativity and design. Do you think that is worth preserving the nostalgic image of the bicycle and bike racing?
    once again, you're following the wrong sport here. Recumbents is probably where it's at for you.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    This just seems moronic, is there honestly nothing better for the UCI to spent time doing than write/discuss regulations such as this? It's a FRICKIN' WATER BOTTLE! *shakes head* this just blows my mind because of how insignificant and pointless it is.
    Kinda the point though, yes?

    Its a FRICKIN WATER BOTTLE! *shakes head*

    Its just there for you to get a drink, because there is a physical need for that.
    It is NOT a fairring, it is not a piece of body work, its not there for you to sculpt to aid the bike. If nothing else they are just getting it before it starts, there needs to be a definition to water bottle, otherwise I could attach any fender or fairing I wanted to the bike and call it a water bottle... Disks are illegal, but its not a disk... Its my new disk shaped water bottle with 1.5 oz capacity.
    This new rule says your water bottle is only allowed to be a water bottle. I see nothing wrong with that.

    And yes, its racing... Everything must be decided by rules so that competitors know what is allowed.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by scryan View Post
    Kinda the point though, yes?

    Its a FRICKIN WATER BOTTLE! *shakes head*

    Its just there for you to get a drink, because there is a physical need for that.
    It is NOT a fairring, it is not a piece of body work, its not there for you to sculpt to aid the bike. If nothing else they are just getting it before it starts, there needs to be a definition to water bottle, otherwise I could attach any fender or fairing I wanted to the bike and call it a water bottle... Disks are illegal, but its not a disk... Its my new disk shaped water bottle with 1.5 oz capacity.
    This new rule says your water bottle is only allowed to be a water bottle. I see nothing wrong with that.

    And yes, its racing... Everything must be decided by rules so that competitors know what is allowed.
    While I understand this, my aero bottle still functions as a bottle. It is silly to demand that only bottles that create turbulence be used with no option for the manufactures to improve the bottle & bike integration.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsedlak View Post
    While I understand this, my aero bottle still functions as a bottle. It is silly to demand that only bottles that create turbulence be used with no option for the manufactures to improve the bottle & bike integration.
    A valid point of view. As long as itr functional I don't see a ton of harm....


    But while racing I will read the rule book and use every ounce of my creativity to gain an advantage based on the letter of the rules... So you simply have to draw the line, because if you don't give a definitive point to stop... how can you expect them to? Not that water bottles are a hot button issue.

    But all points of competition need to be defined.... People always push limits in racing...
    And they decided to draw the line here, rather then there... oh well.

  8. #33
    Iohannes fac totum
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    The new S5 was apparently designed to be aero WITH a standard bottle.

    Wonder if that will be banned soon as well. How about aero bottle holders?

  9. #34
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    Care to take bets on the next thing(s) banned and how long before the TT bike itself is banned?

    I'm going with visors on TT helmets being next and about another decade before all riders will only be allowed to use road bikes.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex View Post
    The new S5 was apparently designed to be aero WITH a standard bottle.

    Wonder if that will be banned soon as well. How about aero bottle holders?
    As long as the S5 tubing and geometry meet the rules I am sure that is how they WANT you to have an aerodynamic water bottle... It is not that they think water bottles need to produce drag, Its just that when you start to design water bottles to function as another part as well they you are breaking the spirit of the competition and so a rule is made to make it clear that the water bottle is there to be a bottle for water, nothing more.

    By that same logic I could see them messing with aero bottle holders. Bottle holder holds the bottle, if you start adding unneeded material to it so that it can serve another function (one that gives and advantage) that could very well be outside the spirit of competition that the sanctioning body wants.

  11. #36
    Iohannes fac totum
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    Quote Originally Posted by scryan
    By that same logic I could see them messing with aero bottle holders. Bottle holder holds the bottle, if you start adding unneeded material to it so that it can serve another function (one that gives and advantage) that could very well be outside the spirit of competition that the sanctioning body wants.
    Well, that is quite the gray area then because why should a feature like a water bottle holder be scrutinized when you have entire frames, seat posts, handlebars, etc. being built solely for aero purposes. All that extra material serves no purpose other than aerodynamics.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by spade2you View Post
    Care to take bets on the next thing(s) banned and how long before the TT bike itself is banned?

    I'm going with visors on TT helmets being next and about another decade before all riders will only be allowed to use road bikes.
    Can't wait!

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex View Post
    Well, that is quite the gray area then because why should a feature like a water bottle holder be scrutinized when you have entire frames, seat posts, handlebars, etc. being built solely for aero purposes. All that extra material serves no purpose other than aerodynamics.
    It comes down to this:
    What is the point of a bottle? To hold your drink.

    What is the point of a frame? To connect the components int the most aerodynamic ridged and lightest way possible.

    All items doing their intended job, not twisting the definition of water bottle to include wings and fairings.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by scryan View Post
    It comes down to this:
    What is the point of a bottle? To hold your drink.

    What is the point of a frame? To connect the components int the most aerodynamic ridged and lightest way possible.

    All items doing their intended job, not twisting the definition of water bottle to include wings and fairings.
    Yes...but how many variations of bottles are there out there that are not even on a bike? Why does a water bottle on a bike have to be limited to basically one shape? Because they say so?

    Kinda stupid if you ask me.

    What if the best way to carry water on the bike was/is a different design, shape, placement than currently available? Oppsss...I guess we may never know because it's been banned
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  15. #40
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    well we need to abide by the "traditional" water bottle shape to keep the deep and rich history of cycling alive and prospering...

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    Yes...but how many variations of bottles are there out there that are not even on a bike? Why does a water bottle on a bike have to be limited to basically one shape? Because they say so?
    That is generally how the rules of the governing bodies of sports work. If you don't like them then you can find another sport. You probably won't like that that sport also has rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    What if the best way to carry water on the bike was/is a different design, shape, placement than currently available? Oppsss...I guess we may never know because it's been banned
    You can use whatever you want. If you want to compete against others then you will be restricted to using gear that does not give you an appreciable advantage over the other competitors. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailrunner68 View Post
    That is generally how the rules of the governing bodies of sports work. If you don't like them then you can find another sport. You probably won't like that that sport also has rules.

    You can use whatever you want. If you want to compete against others then you will be restricted to using gear that does not give you an appreciable advantage over the other competitors. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.
    I understand all this...the fact that you can't tell I'm joking bout how stupid the rule is...well, that's kind of funny.

    The simple fact is restricting water bottles does not give a competitive advantage to any team or rider. They are simple enough to engineer that all riders/racers would have the same advantage rather quickly.

    With the UCI this is where they are heading:

    • all bikes should be limited to round tubes no larger than 1.5" in diameter
    • double diamond frames
    • bars that don't exceed 31.8mm in diameter
    • tires no wider than 23c
    • rims no deeper than 20mm
    • no less than 32 spokes per wheel
    • DB spokes no smaller than 14/15
    • cranks no longer than 175mm and no shorter than 170mm
    • everybody rides the same saddle design
    • no zero degree seat posts
    • frames can only be made out of cro-moly because we all know Carbon Fiber explodes, Ti flexes and Aluminum dents too easily


    The simple fact is the UCI is trying to regulate any technological advances out of cycling...when in reality it's technology that drives cycling and sales.

    They are just shooting themselves in the foot and at some point (of which we are already seeing) the teams/riders will revolt and leave the UCI to sit alone making rules for themselves and nobody else because they will no longer have a league to run as a new one will have been started and will be doing much better than the UCI ever thought they could.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    I
    The simple fact is restricting water bottles does not give a competitive advantage to any team or rider. They are simple enough to engineer that all riders/racers would have the same advantage rather quickly.

  19. #44
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    Point being?

    Does that bottle truly give a competitive advantage...or does it just look "Fugly:? Just because something is different doesn't make it better or higher performing.

    Cycling is heading the way of NASCAR...quickly. I guess if you want all your fans to be "Fat, Drunk and Stupid" that's the way to go.
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  20. #45
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    Here's my simple solution to the whole problem:
    Let riders ride any type of bike they want, but they only get one. If you want a recumbent, great, but you have to ride that same recumbent for every stage -- time trial, flat, hilly.
    You want a funny bike like the Lotus, great. Ride if for every stage.

    This rule would eliminate the most "egregious" issues, as the bikes selected would have to function for time trials, flat stages, and hilly stages.

    Problem solved
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaDogCycling View Post
    Here's my simple solution to the whole problem:
    Let riders ride any type of bike they want, but they only get one. If you want a recumbent, great, but you have to ride that same recumbent for every stage -- time trial, flat, hilly.
    You want a funny bike like the Lotus, great. Ride if for every stage.

    This rule would eliminate the most "egregious" issues, as the bikes selected would have to function for time trials, flat stages, and hilly stages.

    Problem solved
    welcome to the world of one day racing.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    Point being?

    Does that bottle truly give a competitive advantage...or does it just look "Fugly:? Just because something is different doesn't make it better or higher performing.

    Cycling is heading the way of NASCAR...quickly. I guess if you want all your fans to be "Fat, Drunk and Stupid" that's the way to go.
    cycling is not "heading" anywhere, there's nothing new in any of this.
    go to the sport where the innovations are if that's what you want. Bents.
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  23. #48
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    @den bakker

    Agreed -- but my suggestion was really more applicable for stage races. For one day races, it would be "easier" to pick a bike that is tuned to the style of the race -- e.g., recumbents for time trials -- but wouldn't really work well across varied terrain.
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  24. #49
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    Am I the only freak who thinks the UCI is actually doing a reasonable job of retaining integrity to the man over machine side of the sport?

    Anything that makes us look less like a triathlete has got to be good.

    IHPVA don't appear to be threatening UCI anytime soon. Maybe if they introduced race radios vaughters and bruyneel might defect.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaDogCycling View Post
    Agreed -- but my suggestion was really more applicable for stage races. For one day races, it would be "easier" to pick a bike that is tuned to the style of the race -- e.g., recumbents for time trials -- but wouldn't really work well across varied terrain.
    Why not?

    I've never rode a recumbent so that's why I'm asking.



    I've seen a 1930s pic of a recumbent cyclist passing an upright cyclist on a track while racing.

    But I do wonder how a recumbent would do up Alpe d'Huez, though.
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