Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 74
  1. #1
    Anphaque II
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    5,999

    Question Illegal Water Bottles

    So aero water bottles are now banned.


    Saddlegate, revisited: UCI clarifies horizontal saddle rule and bans aero bottles

    No more aero bottles

    Carron’s letter marks the public introduction of Article 1.3.024, which effectively eliminates integrated hydration solutions and many aerodynamic water bottles from use in competition. The rule was approved by the Management Committee in September and will come into effect on January 1, 2013, giving manufacturers a year to comply.

    “Bottles have been increasingly moving away from their original function of allowing riders to rehydrate towards an alternative use as aerodynamic elements which are integrated into the design of frames in order to improve riders’ performances,” Carron offered as explanation for the new rule.

    Article 1.3.024 states: “Bottles shall not be integrated to the frame and may only be located on the down and seat tubes on the inside of the frame. The maximum dimensions of the cross-section of a bottle used in competition must not exceed 10 cm or be less than 4 cm and their capacity must be a minimum of 400 ml and a maximum of 800 ml.”

    To avoid integration, “there must be a space between the bottle and the tube to which it is attached,” Carron noted at the end of the letter, adding that “the capacity is also specified in order to guarantee that bottles are used for rehydration purposes and to prevent any deviations. If bottles with a volume in excess of 500 ml are used, it is recommended that the bottle attachment system should be checked to ensure that it can bear a weight in excess of 0.5 kg.

    The placement requirements are not particularly noteworthy — road cyclists rarely put bottles anywhere but inside their frames’ main triangle anyway. But the dimension requirements for the bottles themselves will make some aerodynamic bottles illegal. For reference, the round bottle on my desk at the moment has a 7cm cross section. In other words, the new rule should only effect riders using odd bottles in time trials
    America's greatest threat: Congressional liberal Democrats

    Crimes Against Humanity: The History of The Democrat Party

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    61
    Wow. Water bottles are serious business.

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: meat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    152
    Time to start doing triathalons again. A lot fewer bike issues there.

  4. #4
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    169
    Nascar.

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: jsedlak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,830
    So is the SC bottle banned then? Seems silly to me...

  6. #6
    Rollin' Stones
    Reputation: cydswipe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    2,694
    I am sure every bottle that is not like the typical round bottle will be scrutinized. That being said, over the past several years, almost every mfgr. has let some sort of odd "aero" bottle loose, Bontager, Trek, Cervelo, Profile-Design, Arundel, Campagnolo, and Specialized. Now, I don't think they make a lot of "aero" advantage, but they are efectively "fairings" in the incarnations they are being marketed as.
    I want rustlers, cutthroats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con-men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull-dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, sh**-kickers, and Methodists!

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: spade2you's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    11,596
    Will they ban having bottles behind the saddle and/or the Selle Italia Optima?

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Keski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    989
    I didn't read it. Too many words. Does it include hydration packs used by some?
    My videos

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSuperMotoHooligan

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyCyclingVlogger

    "The crows come in groups but the eagle soars alone" Jens Voigt

    "They call me the Panther, and panthers always have the energy for one last swipe of their claws.” Daniele Bennati

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    493
    Quote Originally Posted by spade2you View Post
    Will they ban having bottles behind the saddle and/or the Selle Italia Optima?
    Bottles can no longer be mounted behind the saddle or on the handlebars. Lot's of coverage on Velo News site. Sounds like maybe it started because of the Cervelo P4 tt and expanded with further clairification from there.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    303
    This just seems moronic, is there honestly nothing better for the UCI to spent time doing than write/discuss regulations such as this? It's a FRICKIN' WATER BOTTLE! *shakes head* this just blows my mind because of how insignificant and pointless it is.

  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: spade2you's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    11,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokh On View Post
    Bottles can no longer be mounted behind the saddle or on the handlebars. Lot's of coverage on Velo News site. Sounds like maybe it started because of the Cervelo P4 tt and expanded with further clairification from there.
    Awesome. Now my saddle is also illegal.

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    819
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    This just seems moronic, is there honestly nothing better for the UCI to spent time doing than write/discuss regulations such as this? It's a FRICKIN' WATER BOTTLE! *shakes head* this just blows my mind because of how insignificant and pointless it is.
    Without the rule riders will start filling in the main triangle with empty water bottles or using things like this:


  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    303
    I fail to see a problem with that, if they want to ride with it why not? Oh my god the massive scorpion head shaped water bladder on top of my handlebars is such a crazy advantage....I think I gained 1/2 a Watt

    As for filling the main triangle, that would have some significant effects on weight and possibly frame stiffness if the bikes frame was actually hollowed out for water storage. I have a funny feeling many riders might not be ok with those compromises

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    819
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    I fail to see a problem with that, if they want to ride with it why not? Oh my god the massive scorpion head shaped water bladder on top of my handlebars is such a crazy advantage....I think I gained 1/2 a Watt
    I suppose you don't see a problem with handlebar mounted fairings that don't hold any water either...or fully faired bikes...or recumbents. A large bar mounted fairing would offer huge aero benefits. Your 1/2 a Watt is nowhere near reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    As for filling the main triangle, that would have some significant effects on weight and possibly frame stiffness if the bikes frame was actually hollowed out for water storage. I have a funny feeling many riders might not be ok with those compromises
    I have a funny feeling that you have not thought this through. It would be trivial to make an inflatable structure out of thin plastic that fit snugly into the main triangle, completely filling it in. It would weigh next to nothing. Put in a few teaspoons of water and call it a water bottle.

    Frank Schleck did something similar when he wore an air filled water bladder on his chest to improve aerodynamics during a time trial earlier this year.

    Frame makers are already beginning to put water storage into the frame members.

    The UCI is just trying to stop the insanity before it gets out of hand, like the picture above of the fairing disguised as a water storage device.
    Last edited by trailrunner68; 12-27-2011 at 06:17 PM.

  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by trailrunner68 View Post
    I suppose you don't see a problem with handlebar mounted fairings that don't hold any water either...or fully faired bikes...or recumbents. A large bar mounted fairing would offer huge aero benefits. Your 1/2 a Watt is nowhere near reality.

    Honestly I really don't see a problem with it, let people ride whatever they want or someone can dream up, would make things a whole lot more interesting in my mind. I get that this will probably be a point we differ and that's fine, no need to argue the merits of either side of the debate as valid points exist for both.

    I have a funny feeling that you have not thought this through. It would be trivial to make an inflatable structure out of thin plastic that completely fit snugly into the main triangle. It would weigh next to nothing. Put in a few teaspoons of water and call it a water bottle.

    Frank Schleck did something similar when he wore an air filled water bladder on his chest to improve aerodynamics during a time trial earlier this year.

    Frame makers are already beginning to put water storage into the frame members.

    The UCI is just trying to stop the insanity before it gets out of hand, like the picture above of the fairing disguised as a water storage device.
    Again I don't really see an issue with sticking an inflatable thing inside your main triangle, let everyone do it if they want and see what happens. Maybe it will be a great advancement in aerodynamics and bike design, maybe not. Why not let them try it and find out? True progress, evolution and revolution doesn't happen by just sticking firmly to the established status quo

  16. #16
    but thinking about it
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,436
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    True progress, evolution and revolution doesn't happen by just sticking firmly to the established status quo
    The UCI "administers and promotes the development of . . . cycling," but it has no interest in progressing, evolving or revolutionizing performance-improving bicycle technologies. In that regard, it's taken many much more significant steps than this.

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by Undecided View Post
    The UCI "administers and promotes the development of . . . cycling," but it has no interest in progressing, evolving or revolutionizing performance-improving bicycle technologies. In that regard, it's taken many much more significant steps than this.
    Ah but aren't the advancements made in bicycle technology part of the development of cycling? Cycling and the technological side of bike develop are, and have forever been, intertwined. Due to this can one really develop without the other? Can cycling develop without the bike itself evolving, changing and growing?

    I feel like it can't due to the dual nature of the sport, the blend of both the bike and the rider into a single unit.

  18. #18
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    169

    Lightbulb

    They need to offer some unrestricted classes so the big mfgrs. can duke it out over the latest carbon wonder goodies. Most people who buy bikes don't give a hoot what UCI thinks, don't take pee tests everyday before breakfast, and don't ride bikes for a living. But plenty of those people will fork out money for the latest "assymetric" frame or Italian water bottle. Bring it on!

  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    819
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    Ah but aren't the advancements made in bicycle technology part of the development of cycling?
    No. Pro cycling is about competition between riders, not competition between engineers in Taiwan. If you want to watch Formula 1 then you know where to find it.

  20. #20
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    As for filling the main triangle, that would have some significant effects on weight and possibly frame stiffness if the bikes frame was actually hollowed out for water storage. I have a funny feeling many riders might not be ok with those compromises
    Bicycle frames are already hollow...

  21. #21
    but thinking about it
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,436
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    Ah but aren't the advancements made in bicycle technology part of the development of cycling? Cycling and the technological side of bike develop are, and have forever been, intertwined. Due to this can one really develop without the other? Can cycling develop without the bike itself evolving, changing and growing?

    I feel like it can't due to the dual nature of the sport, the blend of both the bike and the rider into a single unit.
    I'm not trying to promote or argue any view of the way things should be, I'm just telling you that the UCI has long tried to reduce the impact of technological developments within the scope of competitive cycling under its authority. For some of the larger examples, look into the history of the hour record and the UCI's evolving regulation of it, especially throughout the 1990s.

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    8,498
    Quote Originally Posted by camping biker View Post
    They need to offer some unrestricted classes so the big mfgrs. can duke it out over the latest carbon wonder goodies. Most people who buy bikes don't give a hoot what UCI thinks, don't take pee tests everyday before breakfast, and don't ride bikes for a living. But plenty of those people will fork out money for the latest "assymetric" frame or Italian water bottle. Bring it on!
    The world championships were held this year in Monza:
    Blows your hair back.

  23. #23
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    169

    Thumbs up

    AWESOME.

    ICE Trice recumbent trike QNT vs QNT / Borealis velomobile - YouTube

    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    The world championships were held this year in Monza:
    [IMG]http://www.recumbentjournal.com/media/k2/items/cache/f3b735e3300faff0e348331a5413d4d3_L.jpg[/IM]

  24. #24
    Anphaque II
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    5,999
    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSnake03 View Post
    Again I don't really see an issue with sticking an inflatable thing inside your main triangle, let everyone do it if they want and see what happens. Maybe it will be a great advancement in aerodynamics and bike design, maybe not. Why not let them try it and find out? True progress, evolution and revolution doesn't happen by just sticking firmly to the established status quo
    Remember back in the '90's? They did radical aerodynamic designs that were eventually banned in favor of the 'traditionally designed bike' or something like that.


    Boardman and Indurain:
    .
    America's greatest threat: Congressional liberal Democrats

    Crimes Against Humanity: The History of The Democrat Party

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by trailrunner68 View Post
    No. Pro cycling is about competition between riders, not competition between engineers in Taiwan. If you want to watch Formula 1 then you know where to find it.
    If pro cycling really was only about competition between riders than they would all ride identical bikes except for the needed size differences to account for rider height etc...That would be the only way to really "just" have competition between riders since it would greatly minimize the material differences.

    As for the aero frames, I do know quite a bit about those things and wouldn't mind a return to them at all. I think it was foolish of the UCI to attempt to "control" the evolution of the bicycle to fit their idea of what cycling traditionally encompasses and looks like.

    Why not let the engineers run wild? Natural selection based upon results/wins will let us figure out what works and what doesn't. Self-imposed limitations and stagnation of the development of the bicycle only limits creativity and design. Do you think that is worth preserving the nostalgic image of the bicycle and bike racing?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 2 water bottles...what's in YOURS?
    By rydbyk in forum Coaching
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 08-19-2011, 09:13 AM
  2. Water Bottles
    By ibfeet in forum Pro Cycling - Tour de France
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-24-2009, 03:25 PM
  3. Why, WHY must the water bottles fly?
    By litespeedchick in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-19-2008, 05:11 PM
  4. water bottles
    By mrcrabbiepattie in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-24-2006, 03:20 AM
  5. Water Bottles
    By UPMICHAEL in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-14-2005, 05:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

INTERBIKE

Contest

Hot Deals See All Hot Deals >>

Interbike Featured Booths

Check out the hottest road bike products from these brands!



















See All Interbike Coverage - Click Here »


Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook