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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    no i meant what i wrote. what else would I take from that still picture?
    You could have asked for clarification...
    The internet forum posting isn't a very efficient method of communication.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    You could have asked for clarification...
    The internet forum posting isn't a very efficient method of communication.
    given quite a few "got it wrong" maybe it's the original post that's the problem and not the responses.
    Poorly written posts. Think of the children.
    Blows your hair back.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    You could have asked for clarification...
    The internet forum posting isn't a very efficient method of communication.
    Sure it is. You can't blame the forum for inefficient communication. The forum doesn't change or alter what you post. The only thing to blame on inefficient communication is the inefficient communicator.

    It's 100% clear what you mean when you post a picture of a mans butt and say "little kids are watching".
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  4. #54
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    I continue to believe that the TdF should alter its rules for the yellow jersey to include the requirement that the wearer must have won at least one stage. That is, first winnow the riders to those that have won at least one stage and then award yellow to the rider among the stage winners group with the lowest total elapsed time.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    given quite a few "got it wrong" maybe it's the original post that's the problem and not the responses.
    Poorly written posts. Think of the children.
    If you or other observers can see the poster's facial expression as in face to face conversation, then perhaps the messages get delivered more accurately. Misinterpretation is so common on internet forums that it's basically a norm.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    It's 100% clear what you mean when you post a picture of a mans butt and say "little kids are watching".
    Back then I didn't realize how strongly "sex sells". Hmm..., maybe I can capitalize on this...

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike981 View Post
    I continue to believe that the TdF should alter its rules for the yellow jersey to include the requirement that the wearer must have won at least one stage. That is, first winnow the riders to those that have won at least one stage and then award yellow to the rider among the stage winners group with the lowest total elapsed time.
    what really would that change? there has been 6 cases of the final winner not winning a stage. last one in 2006.
    Why putting down Lemonds win in 1990?
    Blows your hair back.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    If you or other observers can see the poster's facial expression as in face to face conversation, then perhaps the messages get delivered more accurately. Misinterpretation is so common on internet forums that it's basically a norm.
    sure. it's the fault of everyone else.
    have a nice one.
    Blows your hair back.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    sure. it's the fault of everyone else.
    Did you mean it's the fault of the format? If so, then yes. I mean, you can't equate this (internet forum) with face to face communication. Or are you trying to?

  10. #60
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    To add to the excitement I would love to see the elimination of radios. You get time splits from the bikes and if you want coaching you go back to the team car and fight your way back. Directors can come up with plans and teams can rehearse them but let those with boots on the ground be responsible for their own decisions when things change.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neolithic View Post
    To add to the excitement I would love to see the elimination of radios. You get time splits from the bikes and if you want coaching you go back to the team car and fight your way back. Directors can come up with plans and teams can rehearse them but let those with boots on the ground be responsible for their own decisions when things change.
    amen to killing radios...

    Jens had a good comment regarding them...he said they reduced riders to just being 'muscles'...no thought required to be a racer.
    the 45th POTUS is inept, corrupt, and a pathological liar. and those may be his better qualities...

  12. #62
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    The way things have gone down so far, I can't help but wonder what might be different if Richie Porte were still in contention. Considering how strong he is at ITT, if he were close at all to Froome at this point, I think Sky's hand would be forced to attack to keep Froome in Yellow.

    As it stands now, I'm not sure any of the remaining contenders can take enough time in TT to beat him.

    It will be interesting to see what happens.

  13. #63
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    Not too boring today

    Good to see some balance. One of these obnoxious fans gets some discipline today.

    The Tour has become incredibly boring-tdf-stg-18-push.jpg
    That motorcycle security must be a strong dude. When he pushed with one arm, that chubby fan just flew into the ditch on the side of the road. Then the guy in dark blue cap was recording the chubby guy falling with his cellphone. Apparently, the chubby wasn't hurt. He emerged back in the screen right away.

  14. #64
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    Well, Sky will likely win again this year. At least it was more interesting this time. You had 3-4 guys within 30 seconds of each other for most of the last week of racing. I still prefer one day races and the Giro by a long shot, but this was the most exciting Tour of the last five or so. Like others have said, it could have been really interesting if a number of the top GC and sprint contenders weren't DQ'd or forced to abandon.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  15. #65
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    I think the major problem making the race boring and predictable is the lack of parity of the teams. No one has as deep a budget or team as SKY. In fact the drop off is massive after them. They can hold yellow through the whole tour and still crush all the other teams on the climbing days. It has become a boring and predictable scenario. None of the drama like from the days before they took over. The sport could learn a lot from the NFL about making the competition more interesting. Salary and budget caps could make the teams much more competitive with each other.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by robm90 View Post
    I think the major problem making the race boring and predictable is the lack of parity of the teams. No one has as deep a budget or team as SKY. In fact the drop off is massive after them. They can hold yellow through the whole tour and still crush all the other teams on the climbing days. It has become a boring and predictable scenario. None of the drama like from the days before they took over. The sport could learn a lot from the NFL about making the competition more interesting. Salary and budget caps could make the teams much more competitive with each other.
    I agree about the teams. Beyond the funding, another issue is that Sky decides to focus largely on TdF, while most other teams seek palmares in a range of events. This is how LA / Postal / Disco did it - and probably did it better: This targeting strategy had not been done previously, as far as I know, and well before the event Postal would reconnoiter entire stages in order to find likely places for attacking, and would review the final couple of miles of each stage.

    To counter this, sure, there could be salary caps, but another idea would be for a team to achieve certain performances in other races within the recent year in order to be eligible. You have to qualify for the Boston marathon by having achieved a certain performance in another marathon recently, and in competitive ultimate frisbee your team has to have played a certain amount of sanctioned tournaments in order to get into sectionals, and so get into the annual competitive series; Ultimate Worlds is similar.

    This would push Sky to diversify, and would favor a team like Movistar with 2 or 3 movie stars doing really well here and there through the year.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by robm90 View Post
    I think the major problem making the race boring and predictable is the lack of parity of the teams. No one has as deep a budget or team as SKY. In fact the drop off is massive after them. They can hold yellow through the whole tour and still crush all the other teams on the climbing days. It has become a boring and predictable scenario. None of the drama like from the days before they took over. The sport could learn a lot from the NFL about making the competition more interesting. Salary and budget caps could make the teams much more competitive with each other.
    That's definitely a big part of it, no GC team is as deep as Sky. I don't think it has to be a super restrictive cap number or revenue sharing plan either. It's just needs to provide teams with enough to become a little bit deeper. A few teams actually have the talent to run with Sky head-to-head, but they have to split that talent over the Giro and TdF, trying to send winning teams to both so that their sponsors can get decent coverage all season long. Sky, on the other hand, has the resources to send a relatively strong/competitive "B" Team to the Giro each year while focusing on winning the TdF. Yes, they sent Thomas and Landa to the Giro, but they honestly/clearly could win without Thomas had he finished the Giro. Landa finished the Giro and still was valuable to Froome. If teams can get enough money to send a solid team to the Giro and still be able to bring 2-4 strong guys to the TdF to challenge Sky, I think the TdF becomes a much tougher battle.

    For instance, imagine how much closer/interesting the race might be if BMC showed up with Porte, Dennis, TVG, Oss, De Marchi, Kung, etc. or if Sunweb showed up with Dumoulin AND Barguil, Kelderman, Matthews, and Getche, etc. I personally think Dumoulin is the guy best suited to beat Froome if the course is right for him. Even Uran and Bardet could have brought stronger teams IF they made the TdF their primary/only focus. Bardet could have brought Pozzovivo and Montaguti and Uran could have been assisted by Formolo, Dombrowski, Viella, Slagter, a fresh Rolland, and Woods. It could be a completely different race if that happens.

    They just need to be able to send a squad of this quality to the Giro and reserve everything else for the TdF if they want to win. Two teams still have a chance to win without it even....

    TEAM SKY - Giro d'Italia 2017: Official Site
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 19 Hours Ago at 09:16 AM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  18. #68
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    As a "superbowl" of cycling, the TdF has been pretty damn uneventful ever since Wiggins won it. It's pathetic when a mechanical can inject more excitement in the race more then the athletes can. I look at any other big name sport, like the top soccer matches, the NFL, NBA, the marquee Olympics events, whenever big athletes come, there's guarantee to be excitement. Even the dominant Usain Bolt brings excitement even though we know he's gonna win. Even the dominant New England Patriots bring excitment to the Superbowl even though we know what they're going to do.

    The way the TdF is right now, it's sort of similar to Formula1, that is, all the excitement is really happening in the pits and/or strategy if there's an accident bring out a yellow and/or some rain. But this is not to say it's the fault of Sky. Sky is merely a player in this game, and they're responding to what they think is a prestigous event in the eyes of the fans and thus the sponsor. As it is in pro cycling, the money discrepancy is just too much. You have 2-3 top teams and the rest are fodders. And it sure doesn't help when 1 of those top teams only focuses on the TdF and nothing else.

    It's pretty ridiculous that domestique riders who quit Sky become GC contenders on other teams. Goes to show how deep pocketed Sky is. They are so well financed that they get first dips on all the good prospects, and when the prospects move on to other ambiitons, Sky will go out and get new good ones. Rinse and repeat.

    Like someone mentioned above, there should be "qualifier" event. Teams need to win qualifying races to get a chance to compete at the "superbowl" of sport. Make the athletes compete, not just train secretly for a whole year and how up for the the superbowl. I don't know who this system would work, but there needs to be qualifiers.

  19. #69
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    so I guess it sucks when riders don't have the gas (ie hematocrit, ir EPO concentration) to light up the mtn stages.

    albeit the IndurainEPO era was yet more boring then the Froome era - BY FAR. 5 years straight of winning it in TT. I don't even watch the TTs and never have.

    I enjoyed this Tour, but like most woke up daily looking for a big explosion on mtns that never materialized. Hey it is a sport determined by GC and this is what happens many years by nature of being GC-won. Froome did not have the big attack he always had before, but it was still enough to control the race against so many lesser riders.
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 18 Hours Ago at 09:38 AM.

  20. #70
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    Get Life, Man.
    it was one of the tightest tours ever considering the shortage of moutain top finishes

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by nenesse View Post
    Get Life, Man.
    it was one of the tightest tours ever considering the shortage of moutain top finishes
    I think what they are saying is, yes it was close, but it was still boring. Sky still controlled the whole way and won again....
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  22. #72
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    The announcers were even talking about it today. Unless something like a mechanical or a crash happens, there isn't much chance for Sky/Froome to be beaten, despite the closeness of the top few.

    At this point, the only reason to watch is to see the pretty scenery, and wait for some kind of cray cray to happen.

    I have better things to do with my mornings (ride my bike).

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    The announcers were even talking about it today. Unless something like a mechanical or a crash happens, there isn't much chance for Sky/Froome to be beaten, despite the closeness of the top few.

    At this point, the only reason to watch is to see the pretty scenery, and wait for some kind of cray cray to happen.

    I have better things to do with my mornings (ride my bike).
    people would need to be crazy to sit watch a whole bicycle race, thank you Youtube for "Last Kilometers" videos. The Lance Armstrong post-race 40min podcast is more informative and entertaining.

  24. #74
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    Actually, people just need to be fanatics/addicted to watch a full bike race and some of us clearly are, lol. I can't do it with grand tours or stage races, but I come dang close sometimes with some of the Classics. It's no different/worse than people that watch entire baseball games, golf or tennis matches, or NASCAR and F1 races IMO. Different strokes for different folks.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    That's definitely a big part of it, no GC team is as deep as Sky. I don't think it has to be a super restrictive cap number or revenue sharing plan either. It's just needs to provide teams with enough to become a little bit deeper. A few teams actually have the talent to run with Sky head-to-head, but they have to split that talent over the Giro and TdF, trying to send winning teams to both so that their sponsors can get decent coverage all season long. Sky, on the other hand, has the resources to send a relatively strong/competitive "B" Team to the Giro each year while focusing on winning the TdF. Yes, they sent Thomas and Landa to the Giro, but they honestly/clearly could win without Thomas had he finished the Giro. Landa finished the Giro and still was valuable to Froome. If teams can get enough money to send a solid team to the Giro and still be able to bring 2-4 strong guys to the TdF to challenge Sky, I think the TdF becomes a much tougher battle.

    For instance, imagine how much closer/interesting the race might be if BMC showed up with Porte, Dennis, TVG, Oss, De Marchi, Kung, etc. or if Sunweb showed up with Dumoulin AND Barguil, Kelderman, Matthews, and Getche, etc. I personally think Dumoulin is the guy best suited to beat Froome if the course is right for him. Even Uran and Bardet could have brought stronger teams IF they made the TdF their primary/only focus. Bardet could have brought Pozzovivo and Montaguti and Uran could have been assisted by Formolo, Dombrowski, Viella, Slagter, a fresh Rolland, and Woods. It could be a completely different race if that happens.

    They just need to be able to send a squad of this quality to the Giro and reserve everything else for the TdF if they want to win. Two teams still have a chance to win without it even....

    TEAM SKY - Giro d'Italia 2017: Official Site
    Ummm. This! ^^^^^
    If I knew then what I know now, I woulda done it anyway.

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