flat 10 mile TT times?

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  • 06-25-2005
    BenWA
    flat 10 mile TT times?
    I hate to post another "how fast are you" thread (and I'm sure I'm gonna hear a lot of overly witty crap in response), but what is your best flat 10 mile TT time?

    I'm trying to get an idea of what a decently competitive time would be for a flat 10 mile TT, assuming no wind...for a cat 4/5 level racer. I'm gonna do my first TT soon and I'm just curious as to what end of the spectrum I am at for my level...just so that I can be somewhat mentally prepared.
  • 06-25-2005
    NTM
    Not sure but...
    I did my first time trial today (cat 5) 10 mile over rolling hills and averaged 25 exactly. Second place (cat 5) finished 2 seconds behind me. Headwind out, tail wind back.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BenWA
    I hate to post another "how fast are you" thread (and I'm sure I'm gonna hear a lot of overly witty crap in response), but what is your best flat 10 mile TT time?

    I'm trying to get an idea of what a decently competitive time would be for a flat 10 mile TT, assuming no wind...for a cat 4/5 level racer. I'm gonna do my first TT soon and I'm just curious as to what end of the spectrum I am at for my level...just so that I can be somewhat mentally prepared.

  • 06-25-2005
    boroef
    ^ agreed. 25 give or take a few sounds about right. i ride that distance in stop and go traffic and pretty large hills in 30 minutes, so 25 minutes of flat, non stop road for 10 miles sounds pretty accurate.
  • 06-25-2005
    Fixed
    mph
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BenWA
    I hate to post another "how fast are you" thread (and I'm sure I'm gonna hear a lot of overly witty crap in response), but what is your best flat 10 mile TT time?

    I'm trying to get an idea of what a decently competitive time would be for a flat 10 mile TT, assuming no wind...for a cat 4/5 level racer. I'm gonna do my first TT soon and I'm just curious as to what end of the spectrum I am at for my level...just so that I can be somewhat mentally prepared.

    I tend to think just in terms of mph. My best was 25.6 mph, and that was about top 20% around here (central California), for a Cat 4 (masters). I think about 24 mph is decent, then add at about 1 mph for every Cat upgrade.

    If you can manage 23-24 mph for your first, that's not bad. Below that, I'd say you need a bit of work, some combination of fitness, strategy, self-knowledge (experience), form, and equipment.
  • 06-25-2005
    NTM
    I should have been specific
    I meant mph not total time

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boroef
    ^ agreed. 25 give or take a few sounds about right. i ride that distance in stop and go traffic and pretty large hills in 30 minutes, so 25 minutes of flat, non stop road for 10 miles sounds pretty accurate.

  • 06-25-2005
    BenWA
    I should have asked
    I meant to ask, are you guys doing your TTs with aerobars or dedicated TT bikes, or just your normal road bikes?
  • 06-25-2005
    bigbill
    Depends on the route.
    I have done 23 minutes flat on an out and back, flat TT. The top finisher would do something like a 22:45 or better. I have done 22:30 on a semi open loop. I used to be good at that stuff. I used clip on bars and spinergy wheels on my regular race bike. I like the 30 second interval format to give me motivation to catch the guy in front of me. I was one of the few people who would carry a water bottle.
  • 06-25-2005
    rocco
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BenWA
    I hate to post another "how fast are you" thread (and I'm sure I'm gonna hear a lot of overly witty crap in response), but what is your best flat 10 mile TT time?

    I'm trying to get an idea of what a decently competitive time would be for a flat 10 mile TT, assuming no wind...for a cat 4/5 level racer. I'm gonna do my first TT soon and I'm just curious as to what end of the spectrum I am at for my level...just so that I can be somewhat mentally prepared.

    Every 10 mile time trial I ever did was dead flat, out and back and always windy as hell.
  • 06-26-2005
    Argentius
    The time trials
    I have done have all been in the 11 to 14 mile range, and the speed I averaged was right around 25mph, give or take half a mile an hour.

    That was with clip-on aerobars, but nothing else even VAGUELY aerodynamic - Box section, 32-spoke rims, steel fork and tubes, normal helmet, jersey / shorts, etc.

    In a team time trial in collegiate racing, with the wind behind us for the return trip, we averaged 32! :) (for the return trip only... the way OUT into the wind was like 23)
  • 06-26-2005
    TurboTurtle
  • 06-26-2005
    naawillis
    anything under 24 would be pretty darn good for a first tt. but, if its you're first tt you're probably not gonna do well, or at least as well as you can. the time trial is a honed art of suffering, where you always have to ask yourself "can i go harder?" especially in a short race plan to be on the absolute brink pretty much the whole time. tasting blood, throwing up, or blindness are signs of a marginal effort. you shouldnt be able to think straight for at least 10 minutes after you're done. if you get it right, youll know. its just one of those things.
  • 06-26-2005
    bas
    27:30, 20.1 mph, 9.3 miles, cat 5 hacker

    Several stops/red lights/stop signs, people on bike path, etc.. not totally flat,
    light headwind.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BenWA
    I hate to post another "how fast are you" thread (and I'm sure I'm gonna hear a lot of overly witty crap in response), but what is your best flat 10 mile TT time?

    I'm trying to get an idea of what a decently competitive time would be for a flat 10 mile TT, assuming no wind...for a cat 4/5 level racer. I'm gonna do my first TT soon and I'm just curious as to what end of the spectrum I am at for my level...just so that I can be somewhat mentally prepared.

  • 06-26-2005
    PMC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BenWA
    I meant to ask, are you guys doing your TTs with aerobars or dedicated TT bikes, or just your normal road bikes?

    The type of bike really needs to be considered when putting times into perspective.

    We don't have a 10 mile TT but do have a local TT series that is something like 7.2 miles in length. On a stock road bike my times are 1:30 - 1:40 slower than what I can do on my TT bike.

    If your TT has a 'stock' classification you may want to think about it. The playing field is much flatter racing stock than trying to beat guys on full TT rigs with clip-ons.
  • 06-26-2005
    BenWA
    A few more questions:
    I have a few more questions for the experienced time trialists out there:

    1) how much warm up do you do? I've heard 45+minutes with a couple of hard intervals before a TT...is that about right?

    2) do you use a speedometer to "motivate" yourself to stay above a certain speed or do you use an HRM and think more in terms of maintaining a certain HR? Or do you just ride by "feel"?

    3) I did my own personal TT the other day on a 10 mile flat course (no aerobars, just riding in the drops on my normal road bike) and averaged 22.6 mph. I didn't warm up sufficiently (about 10 minutes) before going that hard. So I'm thinking if I had clip ons, and I warm up more properly, I should at least be able to get that up to 23 mph. So it seems like I would at least be able to hang with the cat 4/5s, no?
  • 06-26-2005
    asgelle
    A few more questions:
    Instead of wondering about how your speed compares to others (I can guarantee you are not the fastes or slowest rider in the country), have you worked on things that improve your placing. Have you timed yourself in different gear combinations for the first 200m at race effort to determine your best starting gear. Similarly, have you practiced turn-arounds with braking and accelerating back up to speed in different gears so you can make the turn as fast as possible. These are things that might make a difference.
  • 06-26-2005
    TurboTurtle
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asgelle
    Instead of wondering about how your speed compares to others (I can guarantee you are not the fastes or slowest rider in the country), have you worked on things that improve your placing. Have you timed yourself in different gear combinations for the first 200m at race effort to determine your best starting gear. Similarly, have you practiced turn-arounds with braking and accelerating back up to speed in different gears so you can make the turn as fast as possible. These are things that might make a difference.

    Speaking of starts and turn arounds, how much effort do you put into the accelerations? Do you go highly anaerobic to minimize the time at slow speeds and accept the recovery pace required after. Or do you just stay constant near LT throughout the entire TT? - TF
  • 06-26-2005
    asgelle
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TurboTurtle
    Speaking of starts and turn arounds, how much effort do you put into the accelerations? Do you go highly anaerobic to minimize the time at slow speeds and accept the recovery pace required after. Or do you just stay constant near LT throughout the entire TT? - TF

    That depends on the course profile and strongly on the individual. If you subscribe to the Monod Critical power paradigm, you have critical steady state power onto which is added the total anaerobic work content. At the end of the TT, the rider should have done total work equal to the critical power times ride time plus anaerobic work content. How that anaerobic work is portioned out during the race depends on how much work is available and if there are any places where recovery is possible (downhills). The best way to figure this out is by trial and error. Testing and modeling with something like analyticcycling.com can reduce the amount of trial and error needed. Biketech review has several good articles on TT pacing and Eddie Monnier has some good article on Monod Critical power.
  • 06-26-2005
    bigbill
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BenWA
    I have a few more questions for the experienced time trialists out there:

    1) how much warm up do you do? I've heard 45+minutes with a couple of hard intervals before a TT...is that about right?

    2) do you use a speedometer to "motivate" yourself to stay above a certain speed or do you use an HRM and think more in terms of maintaining a certain HR? Or do you just ride by "feel"?

    3) I did my own personal TT the other day on a 10 mile flat course (no aerobars, just riding in the drops on my normal road bike) and averaged 22.6 mph. I didn't warm up sufficiently (about 10 minutes) before going that hard. So I'm thinking if I had clip ons, and I warm up more properly, I should at least be able to get that up to 23 mph. So it seems like I would at least be able to hang with the cat 4/5s, no?

    I try not to look at a computer except to note the distance. I work out the gearing and how the cadence feels beforehand on training rides. On a flat time trial, I would use a 53X14 for most part and try to maintain a 90-100 cadence. For a 23 minute effort, I would ride for 30-45 minutes and do a hard effort on the rollers for 15 minutes to arrive at the start as late as the officials would allow. Don't forget to set your watch against the first rider off since it will determine the actual start time for you. I don't know that I have ever seen a TT start exactly on time, but I have failed to time my warmup more times than I care to think about. If you can get to the start line loose and sweaty, you can avoid the "mile one lag" that can torpedo your short TT effort.
    As other people have stated in the past, TT speeds don't always translate into racing success. There are many people who are flat out fast on an extended efforts, but can't handle the accelerations or strategy of crits and road races. Get strong and work on your interval type riding. Riding TTs is an art and working on the other aspects of racing won't diminish your ability to ride against the clock.
  • 06-27-2005
    BenWA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asgelle
    (I can guarantee you are not the fastes or slowest rider in the country)

    for my age (28) and body type (lean, 5'10 145), it's quite possible that i'm the slowest rider in the country... :)


    to answer your question, no i haven't really even thought about those aspects of acceleration and efficient course reversal...that is a good thought.
  • 06-27-2005
    Schneiderguy
    To follow up on the original question, when guys say 25 mph is a good goal to try for and is very competitive in Cat 4-5, is this with the "goodies" for TT and if so what would be a corresponding speed on just stock road bike and no bars or clip ons? For example, would 25 be more like 23 mph?
  • 06-28-2005
    bas
    1 Attachment(s)
    Here's a boring graph from my ride today... 0 warmup..

    bike computer showed 27:15 ride time, 20.4 avg, 9.25 miles. I'm 32 in 2 weeks. Cat 5 rider who tries to hang on.

    On the graph - the first 30 mph is a glitch (was leaving around some tall buildings)

    1st 0 mph was a redlight.. 2nd 0 mph was a red light.. 3rd 0 mph was a red light, 4th 0 mph was crossing
    2 lanes of speeding traffic, up some tricky hills/turns and across more traffic, around
    some joggers, downhill to a straight away finish at the Pentagon.

    I usually give it more at the finish - but it was hot today, and I was soaking buckets.

    The Cytomax I drank at around 00:10 just about killed my stomach and I wondered if
    it was worth it to press on... Not used to drinking the stuff while going all out.

    I used my timex speed + distance system with datarecorder.. I managed to wrap the GPS
    part around the stem.. but had to move my watch from the handlebars to my wrist..
    so I couldn't see my HR while I was riding :( I'll have to figure out a way to rig it up.
    Al's Gift Shoppe in Cleveland probably has the best price.. There are probably better
    systems out there today.