Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    46

    new to virtual power w/trainerroad ... TSS & FTP question

    So it's been a rainy couple weeks in the midwest, perfect for testing out the sufferfest + trainerroad combo. I ran the "rubber glove" 20 min FTP test and came out with 278W FTP with my Kurt Kinetic trainer.

    Since then, I have been using "local hero" 2x a week in addition to my 25-40 mile rides. With an FTP of 278W I am finding it hard to complete the entire "local hero" without scaling it down to 90%.

    Local hero has a TSS of 116 and an IF of 0.9 ... am I "overtraining" myself doing this 2x week AND doing an easy social ride AND a pretty intense 30 mile ride once a week? This is my 2nd week in a row ...

    local hero 116 TSS x 2 = 232 TSS
    30 mile ride with 1,200 ft climbing in 1.25 hrs = 110 TSS (estimate)
    "easy" social ride (25 miles) = 60 TSS

    That's 402 TSS so far this week at IF's of 0.8-0.9 ... and the second week at this level. I'm a 37 year old cat 5 guy who also likes to throw in a few occasional morning runs (to train for cyclocross, of course!)

    Is it too much? Do I need a rest week? I know fitness is relative. Perhaps my FTP needs to drop down a little bit ... or I need to do only 1 intense session per week? I want to increase my fitness, but an an appropriate level.
    Last edited by tazunemono; 07-06-2013 at 04:25 PM.

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,474
    Quote Originally Posted by tazunemono View Post
    So it's been a rainy couple weeks in the midwest, perfect for testing out the sufferfest + trainerroad combo. I ran the "rubber glove" 20 min FTP test and came out with 278W FTP with my Kurt Kinetic trainer.

    Since then, I have been using "local hero" 2x a week in addition to my 25-40 mile rides. With an FTP of 278W I am finding it hard to complete the entire "local hero" without scaling it down to 90%.

    Local hero has a TSS of 116 and an IF of 0.9 ... am I "overtraining" myself doing this 2x week AND doing an easy social ride AND a pretty intense 30 mile ride once a week? This is my 2nd week in a row ...

    local hero 116 TSS x 2 = 232 TSS
    30 mile ride with 1,200 ft climbing in 1.25 hrs = 110 TSS (estimate)
    "easy" social ride (25 miles) = 60 TSS

    That's 402 TSS so far this week at IF's of 0.8-0.9 ... and the second week at this level. I'm a 37 year old cat 5 guy who also likes to throw in a few occasional morning runs (to train for cyclocross, of course!)

    Is it too much? Do I need a rest week? I know fitness is relative. Perhaps my FTP needs to drop down a little bit ... or I need to do only 1 intense session per week? I want to increase my fitness, but an an appropriate level.
    In general, no, 402 TSS/wk is low. What you may be concerned with is the ramp in stress. Start doing the workout once a week, then go to twice when you're comfortable. It shouldn't take more than a few weeks, though. Your FTP could be high but if you're new to training this way I'd start with fewer workouts.

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    46
    Thanks! I am new to training with power. I used to go with RPE and it's a big change.

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by tazunemono View Post
    Thanks! I am new to training with power. I used to go with RPE and it's a big change.
    The trick is learning to calibrate the two. Don't sweat the TSS too much, as it's only really useful when in a performance manager chart that tells you, in rough terms, (a) how fatigued you are; (b) how hard you worked on a given ride, and (c) how fit you are based on a cumulative load. What you need to learn is the relationship between those numbers and real life. Without a meter telling you what you're doing on the road (and the stress of that ride) and taking in the stress, just go by mood. If you're cranky take a day off.

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: the_gormandizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    334
    Those Sufferfest Videos are hard. I also struggle to do them without scaling down to 90%. Also, it might be that you are not recovered enough between sessions. Maybe it is heresy in this age of "Time Crunched" cycling, but the book "Racing Weight: How to Get Lean for Peak Performance" by Matt Fitzgerald and the article Intervals, Thresholds, and Long Slow Distance: the Role of Intensity and Duration in Endurance Training suggest the 80/20 rule: 80% low vs 20% high intensity. Following this advice, if you do two 60-90 minute interval sessions per week, almost all your other riding would be recovery, endurance or tempo (levels 1 through 3). A table at Training Peaks shows that you get quite a bit of adaptation even at level 2 (endurance). It can be hard to restrain yourself on group rides in order to do this!

    As you increase your training volume and intensity, you can increase your daily TSS, and so increase your CTL. However, if you try to bring your CTL up too rapidly you will get into trouble. I've heard a number of 10 TSS/day/week as the maximum you should shoot for in CTL growth.

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by the_gormandizer View Post
    Those Sufferfest Videos are hard. I also struggle to do them without scaling down to 90%. Also, it might be that you are not recovered enough between sessions. Maybe it is heresy in this age of "Time Crunched" cycling, but the book "Racing Weight: How to Get Lean for Peak Performance" by Matt Fitzgerald and the article Intervals, Thresholds, and Long Slow Distance: the Role of Intensity and Duration in Endurance Training suggest the 80/20 rule: 80% low vs 20% high intensity. Following this advice, if you do two 60-90 minute interval sessions per week, almost all your other riding would be recovery, endurance or tempo (levels 1 through 3). A table at Training Peaks shows that you get quite a bit of adaptation even at level 2 (endurance). It can be hard to restrain yourself on group rides in order to do this!

    As you increase your training volume and intensity, you can increase your daily TSS, and so increase your CTL. However, if you try to bring your CTL up too rapidly you will get into trouble. I've heard a number of 10 TSS/day/week as the maximum you should shoot for in CTL growth.
    I find this too--in fact I read that w/r/t/ HHNF if you didn't turn down the FTP settings it was physically impossible or nearly so b/c you spend too much time above FTP. It's 2x20 @110%, I think. (could not find the link) The finishes of those 20s is just brutal; I find the time trial easier.

  7. #7
    Cycling Coach
    Reputation: Alex_Simmons/RST's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,536
    Quote Originally Posted by hrumpole View Post
    I find this too--in fact I read that w/r/t/ HHNF if you didn't turn down the FTP settings it was physically impossible or nearly so b/c you spend too much time above FTP. It's 2x20 @110%, I think. (could not find the link) The finishes of those 20s is just brutal; I find the time trial easier.
    I inspected some of the erg files released to accompany those vids a year or so back, and it was clear to me the rider whose file they were based on had underestimated their FTP. Coupled with the typical difficulty in generating power indoors vs outdoors, it does not surprise me in the slightest that the power demand needs to be substantially lowered to be able to complete them.

Similar Threads

  1. Has Anyone tried Trainerroad.com?
    By foggypeake in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 01-15-2014, 03:02 PM
  2. TrainerRoad...anyone using this??
    By r.shoemaker78 in forum Racing, Training, Nutrition, Triathlons
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-07-2013, 11:38 AM
  3. Trainers with power readings and virtual workouts
    By FSonicSmith in forum Racing, Training, Nutrition, Triathlons
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-06-2013, 04:45 PM
  4. TrainerRoad.com
    By cervelo-van in forum Racing, Training, Nutrition, Triathlons
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-18-2013, 04:35 AM
  5. 5000 Poasts! Virtual Drinks on the virtual house.
    By VaughnA in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 11-11-2009, 08:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

2015 LIGHTS SHOOTOUT

Hot Deals See All Hot Deals >>

Interbike Featured Booths

Check out the hottest road bike products from these brands!



















See All Interbike Coverage - Click Here »


Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook