Corsa Full Carbon road bike with Ultegra component at below $1500??

[sobebike]

This morning I rode with a group from my local LBS including the mechanic that (HAPPILY!!) assembled and fit my new Corsa. They were all amazed (as I was totally surprised) by the superior build, components and handling of the Corsa. I thought I would be hanging on for my life in the back of the peleton, but I was up front and even pulling when many of the others on 6-7 thousand dollar bikes were BONKING! I know this is a shock to all of you, but as I mentioned many times, we were all laughing and cynical when Walmart started selling high-end HDTV and Plasma TVs, and now they are the worlds biggest sellers of high-end electronics. I guess your anger is more shock than anything, but I have a feeling you will be seeing Cervello and Wilier at your neighborhood Supercenter soon, and for 1/2 the LBS price!

[ultimobici]

Originally Posted by sobebike

This morning I rode with a group from my local LBS including the mechanic that (HAPPILY!!) assembled and fit my new Corsa. They were all amazed (as I was totally surprised) by the superior build, components and handling of the Corsa. I thought I would be hanging on for my life in the back of the peleton, but I was up front and even pulling when many of the others on 6-7 thousand dollar bikes were BONKING! I know this is a shock to all of you, but as I mentioned many times, we were all laughing and cynical when Walmart started selling high-end HDTV and Plasma TVs, and now they are the worlds biggest sellers of high-end electronics. I guess your anger is more shock than anything, but I have a feeling you will be seeing Cervello and Wilier at your neighborhood Supercenter soon, and for 1/2 the LBS price!

One word comes to mind reading this thread....................
SHILL!!

[TWB8s]

You might be a happy customer but I'll say this:

-ride it 200 miles a week and see how long it lasts before sh!t starts coming apart.
-you bought a bike from a corporation with no soul or conscience.
-until you buy a real bike you have no credibility

and I too suspect you are a shill for Wally World.

[Retro Grouch]

Originally Posted by sobebike

I guess your anger is more shock than anything, but I have a feeling you will be seeing Cervello and Wilier at your neighborhood Supercenter soon, and for 1/2 the LBS price!

I just got a killer deal on a pair of bib shorts at Wal-Mart

[foresterxt]

Wow, you guys are brutal! Is the Corsa FA an supreme race machine, no. Is it a sweat deal for $499, hell yes. Just take a look at the bike build, there's not a single part on the bike that isn't well known in the industry (The seatpost may be suspect). The parts alone are worth a grand or more assuming the frame is made in Tiawan and not China. I ordered up one just for kicks to replace one of my training bikes. I've got a number of high end road and mountain bikes (hell my Zipp 1080s were four times the cost of the FA) but I'm not a bike snob. I've got an 8 year old trek 2100 that I paid $1300 for and the Corsa is twice the bike. The parts on the bike shouldn't fail either however they more than likely need adjusting.

By the way, I hate Walmart and go to the store as little as possible. However, every so often a deal pops up. This one just happens to land at my door so I don't have to even deal with going to the store.

[iherald]

I didn't see, what's the weight on this bike?

[sobebike]

Originally Posted by TWB8s

You might be a happy customer but I'll say this:

-ride it 200 miles a week and see how long it lasts before sh!t starts coming apart.
-you bought a bike from a corporation with no soul or conscience.
-until you buy a real bike you have no credibility

and I too suspect you are a shill for Wally World.

If the bike starts giving me problems, I will be right here telling you about it. If I ride it week after week and it's awesome I will tell you as well. I am really taken aback by the fury of some of the writers on this thread, although maybe I'd be pissed too if I spent $4000 on a bike and a guy on a Corsa rode by me like I was riding in reverse!. BTW, I got the bike online because I don't shop at walmart; I live on South Beach FL and there is no walmart within 20 miles! Look guys, I took a very small risk ($500) on this bike and if it turns out to suck, I will be forced to invest $1500-$2500 on a bike with similar components. Meanwhile, I'm LOVIN IT!!! & most of all, I am getting a real kick out of the Walmart employee accusations.

[sobebike]

Originally Posted by iherald

I didn't see, what's the weight on this bike?

21 lbs

[TWB8s]

Originally Posted by sobebike

21 lbs

That's about right for a piece of sh!t. I'd guess the other <$1600 bikes are about 2# under that weight. As a benchmark for weight my 1988 SL (that'd be Italian steel) tubed bike with Veloce 10 and clinchers is 19# in a 59cm (or large for Wallyworld) A similarly equipped carbon fiber frame/fork from Trek or Specialized is going to weigh about 16#... maybe less.

As far as "be(ing) pissed too if I spent $4000 on a bike and a guy on a Corsa rode by me like I was riding in reverse!"... good luck with that.

BTW, I never said anything against the Walmart employees. It's the management/ownershit and their policies and lack of employee support of which I take issue.

[sobebike]

Originally Posted by Retro Grouch

I just got a killer deal on a pair of bib shorts at Wal-Mart

Acually, very funny pic. Is that really you?

[sobebike]

Originally Posted by TWB8s

That's about right for a piece of sh!t. I'd guess the other <$1600 bikes are about 2# under that weight. As a benchmark for weight my 1988 SL (that'd be Italian steel) tubed bike with Veloce 10 and clinchers is 19# in a 59cm (or large for Wallyworld) A similarly equipped carbon fiber frame/fork from Trek or Specialized is going to weigh about 16#... maybe less.

As far as "be(ing) pissed too if I spent $4000 on a bike and a guy on a Corsa rode by me like I was riding in reverse!"... good luck with that.

BTW, I never said anything against the Walmart employees. It's the management/ownershit and their policies and lack of employee support of which I take issue.

I read this here:

http://www.smartcycles.com/bike_weight.htm

But how does this weight difference affect performance? Does removing these few pounds make the bike fly? Is a lighter bike the fountain of youth? The September 2003 Bicycling Magazine has a chart that makes it easy to quantify the performance gains from light weight. James C. Martin, Ph.D., assistant professor in the department of exercise and sport science at the University of Utah provided some interesting calculations that make the cost of weight very clear.

He posited a 5 kilometer, 7% grade. That's a good, stiff climb. The legendary Stelvio climb averages 7.5%. He further assumed a rider who can kick out 250 watts. A 160 pound rider will take 19 minutes and 21 seconds to get up the hill. Every 5 pounds added make the trip up the hill take 30 seconds longer.

[TWB8s]

typing larger sure makes you smart

[sobebike]

Originally Posted by TWB8s

typing larger sure makes you smart

sorry about that, Im new to this I was just trying to highlight the sentence! No offense was meant, I was looking for feedback, I was surprised to read that on a 20 minute uphill ride , 5 lbs only slows you 30 seconds, what do you think?

[snaildartyr]

This is a longwinded opinion... to skip to the stuff about the Corsa and none of the background, scroll down and look for "[[HERE]]"… it’s still long, but less long.

So after a l-o-n-g hiatus from cycling, I've been getting back into the sport. Truth be told, I hate the look of aluminum framed bicycles and I can't escape the feeling that these monstrosities are little more than a ~17 pound sampling from an aluminum can recycling plant.

The slanted top tubes look (Sarah Palin, avert your eyes...) retarded. When I left the sport in the early 90's, there were only two aluminum framed bikes on the market and they both sucked: Klein and Cannondale. The last groupo I had on my team bike (a Fuso frameset and fork built by Dave Moulton out of Columbus tubing) was Shimano Dura Ace with this new fangled 'index shifting' mechanism... back then you still used shifting levers on the sides of the downtube.

So a few years back, I rolled out the old Fuso and started riding again. After ~1 year, I broke the chain stay back by the dropout on a steep incline. It would have cost more to fix than the frame was worth (15+ years in various dank garages had not been kind...) and I had to come up with something so I started looking around at road bikes.

My first real road racing rig was a Ciocc with a mix of Campy Super and Nuovo Record throughout. I had crashed my Bianchi Special coming down Geiger Grade from Virginia City to Reno and had to save the entire summer for the bike which cost ~$1100... a Kingly sum in those days. The LBS... heavy on the 'BS' took advantage of this 18 year old kid who didn't know $--- from shineola about bikes to sell him a bike with a frame 8 cm too small and slapped on 180 mm cranks, an extra-long handlebar stem, and set the seat post to the max… and it was still too small.

So you'll forgive me if I don't worship at the ankle of the LBS gods... corporations may be soulless, but many LBS owner/operators are smallminded rip-off artists who would pick a penny out of the gutter with their teeth if they could.

$1100 doesn't buy much in the way of a road bike these days. I don't buy used as a rule because no one takes care of their equipment the way I do (at least, when I'm active).

After that run in with the LBS on my Ciocc, I took to learning everything there was to know about bicycles from overhauling hubs and bottom brackets to building wheels. There were no cartridge bearings in those days… everything was cups and cones and serviceable bearings built to last forever with the occasional cleaning and re-packing with grease. I built my first set of wheels for the Fuso with a Minoura truing stand and dishing tool, a spoke wrench, Mavic MA-40 rims, Dura Ace hubs, and a fistful of spokes and nipples bought from Bike Nashbar. A bicycle mechanic friend of mine offered to show me how to lace a wheel 3x and 4x and I took to it like a duck to water.

So in the end, and now living in the Sacramento valley, I bought a Tommaso track bike as a replacement to my venerable Fuso just like the ones being advertised here. I bought a 'blemished' model, which with shipping and everything came to $358. I quickly wore out the rear hub (a 'Novara') and replaced it with a Suzue track hub with serviceable bearings. Other than that, it has served me very well. I went to a 15t cog on the rear last Summer and roared into this Fall with a goal of 150 miles a week - about 100 per week on rollers; 50 per weekend. I slapped on some clipless pedals (Shimano A530's, spd compatible) and got some shoes around the same time. Always in the back of my mind, I wanted to eventually get back on a multi-geared road bike.

I set myself the goal of a road bike by next Fall / Winter (2010). I was leaning toward the Fuji Roubaix at Performance Bike for around $1100... but I wasn't really excited by the prospect because that (to me at least) is a lot of money for a bike that looks retarded and may be made out of recycled Coca-Cola cans...

That's when I came across the Corsa FA. Not a lot of information on the bike itself. 3 Frame sizes (large, medium, small)... no geometry posted, but clearly in the compact-geometry class of frameset... the components were impressive... except for the bottom bracket (FSA cartridge bearing) and crankset (Prowheel in a 34/50 chainring combo, 172.5 mm cranks).

So here's the thing... Walmart offers a 90 day return policy on anything purchased (except certain electronics... I read the policy online). So why not buy the thing, ride the living daylights out of it, and if anything breaks or it's junk, then return it? Honestly, what did I have to lose?

...and the online gods smiled on my endeavor.

I found a 175 mm, 39/53 Shimano 105 Octalink crankset at JensonUSA for $22 on clearance... I found the correct size bottom bracket - also Shimano 105 with Octalink spindle - at Cambria bikes for $21. My track bike came with 175's and I've grown used to them... I like the additional leverage they afford and I've always had Cadillac knees and ankles...

I also found a set of wheels using the same Shimano 2200 hubs and a slightly heavier aero-section dual-wall rim with 36h for my added bulk (I have to say the Ambrosio rims that came with the bike looked pretty good... I just like the extra strength afforded to a 36h rim as opposed to 32h... at least insofar as the rear wheel goes...) for $110 (shipping included) off Ebay. The cogs (cassette) went right from the stock rear wheel to my replacement rear wheel using a Shimano removing tool (which apparently hasn't changed in 15+ years). I bought a Park Tool bottom bracket remover for Shimano from Sport Chalet for $12.

The rims are Mach1 Omegas, which I hadn't heard of... they're a new French company... but fixed gear riders in England had mostly good things to say, so why not give them a whirl? As usual with wheels bought online, they were built like $---, but after the first 60-70 miles they trued up fine and I was able to tension the wheels correctly... since then, they're straight as can be (after ~300 miles).

[[HERE]] [[HERE]] [[HERE]] [[HERE]] [[HERE]] [[HERE]] [[HERE]]

I ordered the Corsa FA large size... the all-aluminum framed bike with carbon fork for $499. The large size is supposed to fit anyone from 5'8" to 6'2" but I was really skeptical at 6'0". When it arrived, I kept the components as they were to perform an initial fitting to make certain the frame would fit me. The crucial measurement for me is 96 cm. That's the distance from the bottom of the pedal stroke (top of the pedal) when the crank is inline with the seat tube to the top of the saddle... if I couldn't make that measurement fit, it was going to be a quick trip to the Walmart for that aforementioned refund.

The compact-geometry frame makes it hard to gauge just to look at it... but when I set the saddle height to that 96 cm (and allowing for a 2.5 mm difference between the stock cranks and the replacement 105's), I still had ~4 cm of seatpost on top of the minimum-height mark. I finegled the handlebars to get a little additional height using all of the spacers and then flipping the stem over. I adjusted the fore-aft saddle position to coincide with my track bike. Once I did all this, the bike looked about 2 cm lower to the ground overall than my track bike... that's when I realized that the bottom bracket on the track bike is ~2 cm higher than a typical road bike... that's to afford a little additional ground clearance to keep you from scrapping the pedals as you pedal through all your turns...

The different shapes for the various tubes are interesting and appears to be contrived to afford additional stiffness where it's needed. The only round tubes on the frame are the seat tube and head tube. The bike itself seems very lightweight to me... but then my track bike is chromoly and heavier as a consequence... it's certainly lighter than the Fuso I was used to. It's interesting too from the standpoint that the frame has many obvious similarities to the Fuji Roubaix I was looking at... the variable shaped tubing for example.

So as of right now... $538 for the Corsa FA (shipping and tax)... $110 for the heavier wheelset... ~$60 for the steal on a 105 crankset, bottom bracket, and remover tool... = $708, all in. I should be able to get a minimum of $140 back from selling the stock wheels, bottom bracket, and crankset on Ebay (I think that's being really conservative actually).

The first real-ride was a 75 mile route I take from Elk Grove to Folsom Dam and back. It's a good training ride with lots of flats, some climbing and descending (to and from the dam), and a few twists and turns.

I've been really impressed. The Shimano 105 stuff works really well. I'd like to shake the hand of the guy who figured out how to incorporate shifting and braking levers into one package... that's genius. Even with slapping on all the new stuff (wheels, crankset, bottom bracket) the bike was tuned correctly. Because of the larger sized chainrings up front, I did eventually alter the fore-aft position of the rear derailleur to afford it a bit more slack. This necessitated re-adjusting the cable tension to account for this... it took all of 5 minutes to correct.

For all you techno-geeks out there... the stock Shimano 105 shifting/braking levers are Flight Deck compatible, which is this nifty little cycling computer system offered by Shimano. There are little nubs on the inside of the brake lever hoods that control the Flight Deck computer without lifting your hands off the brakes. You can program in your gear ratios and the computer will tell you what your cadence is based on the gear you're in and your speed, all calculated automatically. It's not for me... I'm happy with my wired Sigma 1106... but if that's something you're interested in, there it is.

Stiffness: I honestly couldn't tell the difference between this bike frame and my chromoly track bike... if anything, I feel there is more flex in the carbon fiber fork when climbing out of the saddle or sprinting than is normal. It's a bit distracting. After a while, I just did a lot more climbing in the saddle rather than out as a result. The compact frame geometry arguably pays off here with a smaller frame-triangle resulting in greater stiffness. The frame is very responsive in the turns and tracks very precisely.

I even like the handlebars that came with the Corsa... I've had the same set of Cinelli Giro d'Italia handlebars from the Ciocc --> Fuso --> Tommaso and really thought I'd be switching these to the new road bike... but honestly, the width and amount of drop seem perfect with the new bars, so why bother?

Handling: For those of you who don't train on rollers, it's a very precise exercise. Any tiny imperfection in your pedaling style or if a bike is sketchy, it really makes itself felt on the rollers... that's because you just come off and fall over. The Corsa is very smooth; very predictable on the rollers. The wheelbase of the Corsa is approximately the same as my Tommaso because I didn't need to adjust the rollers on my Kreitlers when I used the new bike on them. That surprised me because it feels as though there is more room to stretch out on top on the Corsa as compared to the Tommaso.

The saddle: It's this hokey looking Selle Italia FK. Honestly, the thing is just awful to look at. Vinyl-ey, plastic-ey looking. I'm going to replace it with a Selle Italia Turbo at some point, but I'm not in a hurry. The saddle works. It's comfortable... if a tad squishy.

I really like the dual-pivot Tektro brakes. Combined with the machined sidewalls on the rims, they have impressive stopping power. On the track bike, I have a Campy Mirage dual-pivot brake on the front wheel and I use back-pedaling-power on the rear wheel to stop/slow down. I have the rear Mirage brake packed away and thought I'd be slapping these on the new bike and replacing the front brake on the track bike with the Tektro, but this model Tektro is a better brake IMO. There's no quick-release mechanism on the Mirage as there is on the Tektro... not a problem on the track bike as I run 700 x 23c tires on it exclusively... but it is handy on a road bike with quick release skewers and wider tires (should you choose to use them).

I don't care about owners manuals... but if that's a consideration, then this one is the absolute worst. It's generic (ubiquitously titled “Bicycle Owner’s Manual”), obviously translated from Mandarin into English, doesn't include any useful information on a warranty (if any) or where to submit complaints, etc. This is the most obvious Achilles Heel to this entire venture. It is here that the gamble takes place.

Here’s the thing with the one component we’re all worried about: all these diabolical aluminum frames – whether Cannondale, Specialized, Trek, whatever are all manufactured in the same plants in China and Taiwan… let that sink into the minds of all the pseudo Walmart activist wannabes out there… those same kind of moral exemplars who would post a picture of a homeless guy wrapped in a Walmart bag to make their oh-so-important point re: whether to get a bicycle for $500 or $1000 or more (Gandhi would be so proud).

As of today, I have nearly 400 miles on this bike. Time will tell if the frame/fork holds up, but I intend to get a minimum of 1000 miles on it before the 90 days are up. After that, worse case scenario, I'll take all the miles I can get and if nothing else, I'll have a bunch of high quality components I can put on a new frame.

So look... it ain't for everyone. Some people get a kick out of plonking down $1000's of dollars for a retarded looking aluminum road bike probably made out of recycled Coke cans (How can we tell? :::voice dripping with sarcasm::: )... and it's got to be a kick in the teeth when SOB's like me who really can't relate advocate a different, less expensive, less dignified route. I just don't need that kind of validation in my life.

Cyclists are a touchy bunch these days. They get pissed off if you're not wearing a stryrofoam hat in the shape of a duck's butt... they get pissed off if you didn't buy your bike from a LBS... they get pissed off if you're not just a cookie-cutter version of themselves. But if you're looking to get into road cycling and you don't want to take out a second mortgage to do it, this could be a way to go.

Some measurements from a Large Corsa FA frame:

Top tube: 51 cm (weld to weld).
Seat Tube: 52 cm (center to top of seat tube). ~58 cm center to top - where the top of the top tube would be on a non-slanted frame.
Head Tube height: 16.5 cm.
Rear Stays: 42.5 cm from weld to dropout.
Chain Stay: 37 cm from weld to dropout.
Stand Over Height: 78 cm (middle); 80 cm (front).
Bottom Bracket Height: 23 cm.

[sobebike]

Thank you for taking the time to educate noobs like myself. We can use all the (real) help we can get, that's why we came to this forum! It's refreshing to read an enthusiastic, honest, helpful post on a thread that started out as helpful but somehow slid down the slimy slope of condescending, angry, demeaning and angry 'cyclists' who are here to educate the pathetic, wanabe, Walmart-loving losers on what real cycling is about. While on my last 35 mile ride around Miami, I realized that the riders on beach cruisers and mountain bikes sharing the road with me may be mistaking me for one of those angry road bike snobs on this thread, and so I made it my point to wave and smile and say good morning to each of them. I hope they realize that some of us riding these really cool bikes are actually kind, gentle (walmart-shopping) humans!

[Dajianshan]

Token is primarily a component company that has Trigon build their frames. They are EXCELLENT frames. I have talked to riders from both companies (I was passed by a Trigon test rider today)... very high quality stuff.

[snaildartyr]

...it's cathartic for me.

To be clear, I'm no fan of the Walmart corporation... and no one wants to see the legislation pending in Congress making union organizing easier pass more than yours truly. Maybe the Democrats and the Obama administration will get their act together and pass this legislation...

Yeah... and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot...

I've given up having contact of any kind with anonymous cyclists. For example, I was riding along the American River bike path the other day and gave a friendly 'hello' to a couple riding in the opposite direction... the woman called out, "Where's your helmet ! ? ! ?"

Jeez lady.... like most men, it's at the end of my... oh never mind. Would it kill these people to just say 'Hey!' back?

And club rides...? Forget about it... there's always some dominant alpha-male type with a $7000 bicycle and a $.10 pair of legs who thinks he gets to dictate every aspect of the ride... how fast we go.... where we go... when we go... when we stop... jesus, it's like antique shopping in Amish country... or marriage... or marriage in an antique shop in Amish country... and up until very recently, I was on my Tommaso. Showing up to a club ride on a fixed gear bicycle makes you the proverbial skunk at the picnic... and the only thing club riders hate more than a guy on a fixed gear rig is a guy on a fixed gear rig sans the requisite styrofoam hat. That's just a bridge too far for these guys and they take to their smelling salts...

Also, I'm at a weird place in my cycling life... not young enough or strong enough to hang with the cool-kids... not so old and out of shape as to relegate myself to the senior citizen brigade. That's why solo cycling rides just seem to work best for me.

And finally, as if enduring the slings and arrows of the styrofoam-hat police and club ride pontiffs weren't enough, there's the bike snobs you've alluded to. These guys have always been around, but since road bicycles have become so much more expensive my hypothesis is that the collective cycling blood has become just that much bluer.

Americans forget that cycling started out as the quintessential working class sport. In the modern era, many (not all, but many) people in countries like Italy and France whose economies were ravaged by WWII couldn't afford to buy a car. If they saved a little dough, they could afford a bicycle. Cycling across Europe grew out of this milieu (1948 - 1958). Riders like Coppi, DeRosso, Polidor, Anquetil, Merckx, and Hinault emerged as some of the greatest riders of all time from this era.

This was a theme explored in the 1948 Italian movie Ladri di biciclette (The Bicycle Thief) where a guy saves up enough money to buy a second hand bicycle which leads to him getting a job... only to have his bicycle stolen and his life ruined.

In America, the late 1970's 'Energy Crisis' was a kind of economic parallel. Breaking Away (1979) is the story of a working class kid who buys an Italian racing bike and pretends to be Italian... to the utter consternation of his father...

As a self-described newbie, you might appreciate this. Go to YouTube and look up videos featuring Jacques Anquetil... of course, all those guys I named above are terrific IMO... but J. Anquetil had the most amazingly smooth and powerful pedaling style ever. And try to get a look at his saddle position... it's bizarre. I wouldn't last 1 minute with the way he positioned his saddle, but it obviously worked wonders for him. It's a reminder that in an age of Fit-Kit conformity there's always room for individuality.

[DarkBeer]

Hopefully this isn't considered off-topic to this thread. I'm looking at the possibility of purchasing this bike. At 45 years old, 6'1" and 240 pounds, I need to drop some weight. I don't see myself riding in groups and would be fine with solo riding. Will this bike support my weight, and would it be decent for recreational use and someone that is looking to try cycling as a means to work on losing some weight?

[RussellS]

Originally Posted by snaildartyr

Here’s the thing with the one component we’re all worried about: all these diabolical aluminum frames – whether Cannondale, Specialized, Trek, whatever are all manufactured in the same plants in China and Taiwan.

Through 2009 ayway, all Cannondale aluminum frames are made in the United States of America by Americns in Pennsylvania. In 2010 that will change sadly.

[DarkBeer]

Hopefully this isn't considered off-topic to this thread. I'm looking at the possibility of purchasing this bike. At 45 years old, 6'1" and 240 pounds, I need to drop some weight. I don't see myself riding in groups and would be fine with solo riding. Will this bike support my weight, and would it be decent for recreational use and someone that is looking to try cycling as a means to work on losing some weight?

[snaildartyr]

RusselS:

I was reading an article that talked about the closure of the Pennsylvania plant... labor costs in Pennsylvania are ~$35 per hour; in Vietnam and Taiwan ~$1 per hour. Factor in costs like having to transport Cannondale frames/bikes across the Pacific... and let's say that jacks it up to $10 per hour...

,,,so do you think American consumers can look forward to a corresponding drop in price on Cannondales at their LBS?

I'm not holding my breath. The amount of money they charge for these bikes is crazy.

DarkBeer:

No more off-topic than me citing videos of J. Anquetil on YouTube...

I'm roughly in your weight/height/age category. As I described in excruciating detail in that first long post on the Corsa FA, I think you're going to want to replace the rear wheel with a 36h fairly heavy-duty aero rim of some kind. You could certainly get away with using the stock front wheel with 32h semi-aero Ambrosio rims... but that rear 32h version is something I wouldn't trust over 200 pounds.

When I was figuring it out for myself, I decided to just purchase a wheelset online, then sell the stock wheelset on Ebay. By ordering wheels online, I can just re-use the box and packaging the replacement wheels came in when I sell the stock wheels.

For me, it came down to a 36h wheelset by Vuelta called the Corsa HD (how ironic) for $149.99 on sale at Bike Nashbar and rated at 300 pounds... or the wheelset I eventually went with which had the same Shimano 2200 hubs that come with the Corsa FA and 36h Mach1 Omega aero section rims for $110 through Ebay.

I went with the Ebay wheelset because I knew for sure the 10 speed cassette would transfer right from the stock wheelset to the replacement wheelset (both use the same Shimano 2200 hubs).

Also, the Vuelta wheelset uses sealed cartridge bearings, which I hate. You can disassemble the 2200's, clean and repack the bearings with fresh grease, and they should last forever. Cartridge bearings can't be serviced, so you wait until they fail, then replace them... if you can find the correct size... if they aren't pressed into the hubs with a hydaulic press and require a special tool for removal, etc. ...

The wheelset I bought off Ebay is here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=370333833211

The Vuelta Corsa HD wheelset is here:

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes//Produc...2_506872_-1___

The Vuelta's are a bit more these days ($169.99), but had gotten good reviews (which are no longer posted at the webpage... curious) and they've changed the description which now says explicitly they are Shimano 9/10 speed compatible... so everything should work.

From what I can recall of the reviews when they were posted, people generally were impressed with the sturdiness of the rims and that the wheels were smooth rolling... two people said they made a very characteristic 'whoosh' sound as they moved through the air... one person said they were the worst wheelset they've ever bought, but didn't offer any details as to why...

You can also look online and at your LBS for a decent heavier rear wheel only that will accept your Shimano cassette...

Your height. Hopefully, you have access to a bicycle that fits you and you can take that same measurement I referred to in the other post: measure from the bottom of the pedal stroke (top of the pedal) with the crankarms in line with the seat tube to the top of your saddle. For me, that measurement is ~96 cm. With the saddle height set to this measurement, I still have ~4 cm of seat post above the minimum mark... that's for me at 6'0".

Depending on how much bend you like at your knee and how much forward or back you like to position your saddle, that's not a whole lot of room for error. Also, I've set the bars to their maximum height and they j-u-s-t barely reach up to the correct height for me.

With this information, you should be able to extrapolate whether or not the Corsa FA is for you.

In terms of the frame, I would definitely stick with the all aluminum frame version, not the all-carbon or carbon seat stays versions just for the added strength and peace of mind. The weight difference (especially between the carbon seat stays version and the all aluminum version) is minimal. Take the money you save going with the all aluminum version and invest it in better cranks and a better bottom bracket... so far, I've not had any problems in terms of the all aluminum frame being strong enough to support my weight. I've done a couple rides that were over 50 miles in length and had me crossing 3 sets of railroad tracks (3 out... 3 back...) and each time the frame and carbon fork seem to soak up the bumps just fine. No creaking... no feeling of inadequacy.

Just remember to make sure the bike fits before doing any modifications. I would check the overall fit first, then take it to a good mechanic at a LBS to tune it up and help you tweek the handlebar height, seat position, etc. If you're not comfortable doing that stuff on your own. If you're using a replacement wheelset, wait for those to arrive then ride on them for 20-60 miles or so before truing them up..

If you order the bike and it doesn't fit with 'room to spare' so to speak, return it to Walmart for a refund... don't be tempted to settle for a saddle that is a smidgeon too low... or handlebars that aren't quite high enough, etc. or try to 'Macgyver' things some how. I think at 6'1" you're at the upper limits of the large sized frame, so caveat emptor ('Let the buyer beware'). For me, the gamble has paid off...

I hope this helped and didn't just raised more questions than it answered.

[jbermudez]

sobebike & snail...

Nice too see your comments on the Corsa FA, mine should arrive wensday and I was a bit nervous. For me it is my begginers bike, i dont think i need a 1000+ bike and this seemed like a good deal. BTW not a fan of wallmart, and i also live by Miami Beach, and the wallmart is not close.

I will be using the bike for trainning, 3 friends and I will be doing some triathlons this year, and i needed a road bike to start with.

I was amazed by how negative some people can be about someone getting this as their starter bike, and how they put it down. Because we are not getting an cannondale, trek, etc at our LBS. . I know people will probably look at the bike and be like WTF? but you get that in every sport, you also get a guy with funny gear, you get the fanatical advocates of the "best" gear ( that a lot of times are no where close to being the best players) and you get a few people that could be riding on a spray painted vintage road bike and are great riders and happy.

As soon as i get the bike and go for my first rides ill come back give a third "review" of the Corsa FA, and also share the weak points that will b brought up by the guy in my group that is experienced and will be trying to help this noob and his wallmart bike to finish a triathlon ot maybe a couple

thanks for the great info and please dont be haters, sey hello back to us riding the wallmart bikes.

[snaildartyr]

Didn't Lance Armstrong once famously remark, "It's not about the bike, it's about the man... now please pardon me while I mount my $150,000 custom built Trek Madone..."

( ::: ok, ok... I paraphrased from the title of his autobiography, It's not About the Bike: My Journey back to Life ::: )

Fausto Coppi once replied in answer to the question, "What did you do to become such a great cycling champion?"

"If you would be a great cycling champion, you must do three things: Ride your bike, ride your bike, ride your bike."

A bike-snob takes the most expensive bicycle and equipment they can afford and thinks (s)he's scaling those Olympian heights where St. Armstrong lives... yet without his kind of drive and determination, it really is only a bike.

An old-school cyclist knows the more miles they put in and the more time they spend on the bike (within reason, any bike), the better they will get... and incidently, this builds drive and determination.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"If there was a God, I'd still have both nuts." --Lance Armstrong ( ::: not kidding ::: )

[cyko]

I've got one coming as well. I think it's prolly a great deal based on the spec. I took one for a spin last year and thought it was a great deal at 600, much less 500. I own two mtb's, one cyclocross, and now this Corsa FA as my only road bike. My K2 Enemy has 105's also and they're great. I guess none of my stuff is Rolls Royce, but then again I work for a living, have two sons in college, a high maintenance fiancee, and several other outdoor habits to support. All in all, bet you ten dollars to a doughnut I'll be happier than a pig inshit. After reading Snaildartyr's review I don't even have buyers' remorse!
Cheers

[snaildartyr]

As of tomorrow I should have ~850 miles in on the Corsa FA. At this rate, I should be able to exceed 1500 miles before the end of the 90 day period for returns.

Impressions so far ( * = fatally bad, * * = bad, * * * = I can live with it, * * * * = very good, * * * * * = excellent):

Drivetrain: * * * * * The Shimano 105 components are super smooth and solid. Recall that I replaced the stock compact crankset and bottom bracket with Shimano 105 stuff on clearance at two different online bike shops. I imagine the stock crankset and bottom bracket would still be fine with this kind of mileage.

It's important to keep the brake/shift levers clean and oiled. Every now and again the mechanism feels 'heavy' when shifting... a small flood of WD40 followed by soaking it all up with a shop towel and a small amount of penetrating oil on the pivot points and you're good to go.

I only just dealt with cable stretch on the rear deraileur. It makes sense it would show up here first since the 10-speed cassette is on the finicky side given there is so little space between cogs. It took about 1-turn on the adjusting barrel to sort it out.

Brakes: * * * * * The Tektro brakesets are sturdy and provide excellent, predictable braking under all conditions. We had a lot of rain here lately and even when wet, the stopping power is impressive.

Handlebars / Stem: * * * * * There are drawbacks to the modular design of modern handlebar stems, but overall, it's starting to grow on me. The whole setup just feels more sturdy than the older handlebar quill stem system. That feeling of over-builtedness extends to the 31.8 mm diameter stem and handlebar giving the bike a real solid feeling when you flick it into a turn or climb/sprint out of the saddle.

Seat / Seatpost: * * * Nothing special for the seat post. It does the job it was designed to do. There is precious little variablility in the amount of tilt you can impart to the saddle. You can have the nose of the saddle pointing up at 60 degrees if you have a mind to... but getting the saddle in the level position is tricky. The saddle itself is nothing to write home about and is sad looking to be honest. It is not uncomfortable though, even on rides of ~100 miles.

Wheelset (w/ 36h Mach1 Omega rims): * * * * * Not the stock wheelset, but if anyone's following the thread, these were built pretty poorly, but after 60 or so miles I re-tensioned the spokes and trued the rims and since then, no problems. The Shimano 2200 hubs are the same as the stock wheelset and the grease they came packed with was definitely on the light side. After the first 400 miles, I could hear the bearings clanking around in the front hub when I spun the wheel by hand and listened. I use a red lithium-based automotive bearing grease mixed into a slurry with penetrating oil... typically that holds up for 3000 miles or more between services. The rear cassette is relatively quiet when you coast (and the pawls are not engaged)... I've come across a few road cyclists with really loud and annoying mechanisms...

Frameset / Fork: * * * * The carbon fork does flex more than a steel version would. The way I measured this was to use my cycle computer sensors in a little experiment. I know from past experience that if the wheel sensor is too close to the magnet on the wheel for the Sigma cycling computer, it will hit and cause a clicking noise when you sprint out of the saddle on my track bike (with a steel fork). I fixed this a long time ago, but went back and deliberately put the magnet too close and measured that gap.

I use the same Sigma brackets on both the Tommaso and Corsa FA...

When I used the same measurement on the Corsa FA I noticed that the clicking sound it made was louder... so I gradually widened the space until the clicking barely happened... then did the same for the Tommaso... I used a spark plug feeler-gauge tool to measure the gap.

For the Tommaso, the gap for the sensor to barely hit in an out-of-the-saddle sprint at ~25 mph was ~.508 mm... for the Corsa FA under the same conditions it was ~.804 mm.

Of course this is a very small difference *and* anecdotal (being an apples to oranges comparison)... it's not anything to put me off the bike overall... but there it is. I wonder if anyone has done a comparison of fork flex between carbon/aluminum/steel as well as different carbon forks to one another...? The lightweight of the carbon fork and road-shock absorbing characteristics are also noticeable and welcome.

As for the frame. It's light and responsive and it's really grown on me. The thing I don't really care for is the color-paint scheme. They use a lot of decals/transfers to get the effect they were shooting for... and while it isn't a problem today, I can see where it could be in the future if the clear coat isn't of a high quality.

There's also this clear plastic chain guard on the right rear chainstay that they used some kind of epoxy to bond it to the frame... it has been slapped on over the paint... and it has oozed out and catches dirt and grease (BTW... use a little penetrating oil to clean it up... the epoxy appears to be lipid-soluble).

These are tiny cosmetic criticisms to be sure. Do I think the frame and fork will hold up in the long run? Yes, I do. Is the frame stiff and responsive and does it handle well both over the road as well as in traffic? Absolutely. Maybe you can't pack this much value into a bike at this price without a few compromises like these... better here than elsewhere on the bike.

Overall Rating: * * * * * I gotta say, I'm having a blast on this bike. One of the drawbacks of my Tommaso is that with a fixed gear bike, you can only go so fast... on the American River bike path, there's always some jerk-off who imagines it's O.K. to ride your wheel (like you're not going to notice them or something...).

With the Corsa, I can always just shift up and keep these knuckleheads and wheel-suckers away from my 6...

I finally rode a ~100 mile ride on the Corsa in 5 hours 42 minutes (average speed = ~17.54 mph) and figured out from this that my handlebar height was off. Excruciating lower back pain and the almost complete absence of shoulder and arm pain indicates you are not putting enough weight on your hands. When the bars are too high, the lower back tries to do all the work... by lowering the bars significantly, you basically 'force' the arms to take up a significant portion of your upper body weight, freeing the lower back and hips to concentrate on generating power to the pedals... my average speeds have gone up nearly 2 mph since I lowered the bars 4 cm. It's something you would only notice and correct after rides of this length, so now I can go back and refine the measurements on the Tommaso...

Mechanically the bike is nearly perfect. Aesthetically, I'll never get past the sloping top tube and the busy paint scheme... but that could be as much a generational perspective as anything. I'm glad I made the changes I made to the crankset, bottom bracket, and wheelset... but those were personal decisions and good internet-karma that really paid off. If you're at or below 200 pounds in weight, the stock wheelset would be perfectly fine for you. The double-walled semi-aero 32h Ambrosio rims are good and the Shimano 2200 hubs will work just fine with regular, routine upkeep.

So... here's hoping others have as good (or better) an experience with their Corsa.