US Nationals moving to January

[Gripped]

It sounds like Adam HM is leading the push to move US Nationals to January. I've got a post up on my blog that argues against the change. While I throw out a few arguments, my primary reason is that it will kill the now traditional US cross vacation and camp. Over the holidays, there are a butt load of races in Europe over a short period of time. Over the last few years, US riders have taken advantage of this period between US Nationals and Worlds to race a bunch of races and preparing for Worlds.

By moving Nationals to January, that period will be filled up with US races. Also, Worlds racers would have to make two trips to Europe and miss some potentially big US races. Also, if they did race in Europe over the holidays, they would be coming back for Nationals in a potentially jet lagged state and risk getting airplane rhino virus (like I just did coming home from Florida).

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say.

http://www.hoyerfamily.com/cyclocross/

[lithuania]

I can see your point for elite riders but as a regular sucky racer I like the idea since it should extend the regular cross season in most areas by a few weeks.

[colinr]

Does anyone have a list of reason FOR the change? All I've heard is "we're doing it to be like the rest of Europe," which doesn't carry a lot of weight since the cx scene seems pretty different on this side of the pond.

[Dwayne Barry]

Originally Posted by colinr

Does anyone have a list of reason FOR the change? All I've heard is "we're doing it to be like the rest of Europe," which doesn't carry a lot of weight since the cx scene seems pretty different on this side of the pond.

I was half paying attention on the message groups where Myerson posts. I'm not sure he's pushing for it as much as he is just the messenger that it is in the works?
I seem to remember reading the push is coming from the UCI to bring us in line with everyone else.

[PeanutButterBreath]

Especially if it shifts the entire season back into late fall & early winter where it belongs.

While it may be true that racing in warm weather encourages new riders to give it a try, it also means that many bike racers from other disciplines may not give CX a shot because it interefers with their other schedules and plans. Around here we lost a lot of top racers during the weekend of 24 hours of Moab, for instrance. In general, many folks may have competing priorites during the late fall while the weather is decent. (Personally, I don't think that racing in dry 70+ degree weather really counts as CX anyway).

As far as US racers in Europe -- lets just face the fact that number of contenders does not justify shifting the season forward. Arranging the US schedule so that racers can race a complete season here and then compete in Europe is clearly not a winning stragegy. Perhaps if we get more racing going on under the appropriate conditions in the US, we will develop a more Americans into racers that can hang in Europe?

[ZenNMotion]

Originally Posted by Gripped

By moving Nationals to January, that period will be filled up with US races.
http://www.hoyerfamily.com/cyclocross/

That about says it all. Early nationals seems to end the season early here. CX in the US is grassroots oriented for the most part, and I'd love anything that promotes grassroots development of the sport. It's cool when US elites compete successfully in Europe, but I'd gladly trade off some of that potential success for a longer season and more participation here at home. In other words, my definition of CX development is greater participation by more racers at every level and more local opportunities to compete. Particularly as road racing becomes increasingly challenged by lack of venues and increased costs, and MTBs increasingly restricted from trail access, cross is the growth end of cycling as a competitive sport. I'd love to see opportunities develop for school kids to race cross as a gateway to lifetime fitness and passion for cycling, more women competing, COC's (Crossers of Color!) and more guys, especially outside the typical masters age/white collar demographic. Long-term we can surpass Europe through sheer numbers of riders and venues if that's important (though why is it important that they're better if we're having more fun?)

[wunlap togo]

Well, it's about time! Our season will be longer and it will be easier for US worlds team members to stay racing-fit.

Even with our mid-dec. nats, worlds team riders generally have to go to europe for the christmas period, travel home and train for 3 weeks with no races and then go BACK over for worlds. I think very few riders actually go for christmas and stay all the way through worlds.

Staying in the US till nats on the 2nd weekend of January and then flying over and racing hard for a couple weeks before worlds is more ideal, atmo. December can become a more competitive month here, and it's possible that many athletes will be faster at the end of January WITHOUT over-extending themselves with cx stage racing around christmas.

Time will tell, but I think this change in the date as well as moving nat's to a more sensible location, weather-wise, will really help our scene.

[CycloCross]

You talk alot about whats good for CX with out knowing awhole lot about racing. Masters racers! I just dont get you guys- 3 yrs racing local levels and one seems to know it all

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by wunlap togo

Staying in the US till nats on the 2nd weekend of January and then flying over and racing hard for a couple weeks before worlds is more ideal, atmo.

gets it atmo,
e-RICHIE©™®
http://rscyclocross.blogspot.com/

[jerry_in_VT]

The push came from the UCI, not from Adam, I believe. It has been brewing for a long time due to conflicts on the calendar between our nats and world cups, and other races, but particularly world cups. I think Page's troubles hitting them all a few years back brought the issue to the forefront with Peter VdA, the UCI coordinator fellow. Now that we have several top men, I think they want to integrate us into the standard schedule so that the elite and world class competitors are all on the same page and there are no conflicts.

I dont konw that its worth upsetting the other 99.9% of US racers, but one can argue that to really grow the sport at the TOP level we need to do this.

I suppose we could run Amateur nats one place/time and PRO CX nats another (like the road did/does)...that would solve the whole huge field thing...elites vs elites with out contract like in Europe....

I suppose we could hold the event in Europe too, then everyone can just stay there...let em race with the Swiss again, top American gets the jersey!

(tounge in cheek)

J

[colinr]

Originally Posted by ZenNMotion

Early nationals seems to end the season early here. CX in the US is grassroots oriented for the most part, and I'd love anything that promotes grassroots development of the sport. It's cool when US elites compete successfully in Europe, but I'd gladly trade off some of that potential success for a longer season and more participation here at home. In other words, my definition of CX development is greater participation by more racers at every level and more local opportunities to compete. Particularly as road racing becomes increasingly challenged by lack of venues and increased costs, and MTBs increasingly restricted from trail access, cross is the growth end of cycling as a competitive sport. I'd love to see opportunities develop for school kids to race cross as a gateway to lifetime fitness and passion for cycling, more women competing, COC's (Crossers of Color!) and more guys, especially outside the typical masters age/white collar demographic. Long-term we can surpass Europe through sheer numbers of riders and venues if that's important (though why is it important that they're better if we're having more fun?)

I agree with Zen. I think it's probably good for elite racers, which is why USAC is doing it, and good for people who race in the warmer parts of the US where the season already goes into January. For non-elite racers in cold places, it's just another headache -- trying to maintain fitness for nats over christmas when it's snowing out? I'm not saying it's impossible but it's certainly not something people are going to want to do.

I realize the goals of USAC are aligned with elite performance, but my goals are aligned with grassroots racing in a cold climate, so I think it sucks. Your mileage may vary.

[gewilli]

My take bottom line is that It is for the folks who are PRO. Not for the promoter pocket padding pack fodder who attend the races just to 'race.' It benefits those who have a chance to compete and win at Worlds. Folks like Compton, Llyod, Page, Johnson...

There are negatives for the grass roots. And it impacts programs like the one Geoff P has worked hard to establish. But. I do feel it benefits the over all end product of the program.

I support the potential move.

[jerry_in_VT]

Originally Posted by gewilli

And it impacts programs like the one Geoff P has worked hard to establish. But. I do feel it benefits the over all end product of the program.

I support the potential move.

To flip that coin, it may boost resident programs. I have long held that the Elite guys really should be over there in November and December to bring it home at Nats, rather then racing in the US. Trebon rode around alone an awful lot this year. What did that do for him, other then get alot of points? Just an example, not picking on Trebon.

Given the new calendar, you would be able to go over, come back for nats, and go back again like JP does. Only with the added bennie of having TWO WEEKS to do your travel (ie nats is on a weekend bookended by two weeks, and you dont miss any races).

It also puts the peaking cycles for their training in sync with Europe. JP has often cited that as an annoying byproduct of our Dec. date.

I think the move would give our Elites the tools and incentives they need to commit and succeed at an international level. The only thing potentially compromised is the _promotion_ of the US nationals. The racers make the race, so a worthy champ will be crowned regardless of date (unless the best guy doesnt win )

[giovanni sartori]

This could also impact some MTB'ers and road specific guys who could be in the running for nats champ - Wells for instance, but as their bread is buttered by another discipline they don't / can't keep fitness like that through January. I don't mind this as they probably wouldn't ride Worlds anyway.

American translation for Gewilli:

This could also impact some MTB'ers and road specific guys who could be in the running for nats champ - Wells for instance, but as their bread is buttered by another discipline they don't / can't keep fitness like that through January. I don't mind this as they probably wouldn't ride Worlds anyway.

[Gripped]

Originally Posted by wunlap togo

Staying in the US till nats on the 2nd weekend of January and then flying over and racing hard for a couple weeks before worlds is more ideal, atmo. December can become a more competitive month here, and it's possible that many athletes will be faster at the end of January WITHOUT over-extending themselves with cx stage racing around christmas.

Currently, there are about 9 Euro races in Belgium and Netherlands between December 21 and January 2.

There are four races (two world cups) between January 12 and January 20 (weekend prior to Worlds) and they are in France, Belgium, and Netherlands.

Which is more bang for your buck on a European vacation?

I'm glad you pointed out that I was wrong about the reduced travel since the US Worlds team (sans Page) flies over twice anyway. My error ...

[Gripped]

Originally Posted by jerry_in_VT

To flip that coin, it may boost resident programs. I have long held that the Elite guys really should be over there in November and December to bring it home at Nats, rather then racing in the US. Trebon rode around alone an awful lot this year. What did that do for him, other then get alot of points? Just an example, not picking on Trebon.

I agree with you that the US elites need to be testing themselves in Europe. However, if they take off for a month or so, that is going to cripple a series like the USGP unless they schedule it such that it gives Trebon, Compton, et. al. plenty of time to race in Europe. I'm not sure how appealing a USGP schedule like that will be -- and it might lose sponsor dollars as a result.

[Gripped]

Originally Posted by jerry_in_VT

I think the move would give our Elites the tools and incentives they need to commit and succeed at an international level. The only thing potentially compromised is the _promotion_ of the US nationals. The racers make the race, so a worthy champ will be crowned regardless of date (unless the best guy doesnt win )

If the elite riders head over for the holiday racing return for Nationals, then return for the final two world cups, then the new schedule could be a boon.

I wonder if the US schedule would bend enough to accomodate the US elites taking off for a couple weeks around the holidays, i.e., no important races domestically.

I think the move can undermine the age group races at Nationals though. It's going to be tough for snow belt racers to keep fitness into January. Some parts of the country will easily be able to extend the season but others might find it difficult. Not to mention the potential weather related uncertainty of holding US Nationals in January in certain parts of the country.

I know that January can have some bad weather around here (freezing rain).

[zank]

Honestly, how will this really affect any of us and our respective regions? The only possible outcomes I can see are 1) a longer season or 2) the same length season. Neither of which I see as a bad outcome.

There has been a bunch of talk about how promoters won't be motivated to hold races if only 50-100 racers are going to show up in late December and early January. Well, it wasn't long ago that a typical turnout for a cross race in New England was 100-200, and there were people willing to put on races then. And there are plenty of areas around the country today where a typical cross race will draw maybe 100. These folks are holding races. I remember back in the late 90s, the New England Championship series went until the weekend before Christmas and turnouts were good.

If we have become so big for our britches that a race can't happen with fewer than 100 riders, there are other problems we need to work on

[The Sundance Kid]

Gripped maybe this thread should have a poll: Natz in January: thumbs up/thumbs down? I'm for it. More cross races=awesomeness.

I think the later date will help us at world's for both elites for the reasons stated above and also for the younger riders who struggle to raise funds to make two trips to Europe.

In response to Giovanni's point about pro roadies and MTBers, I would point out that this could really help guys like Powers, and TJ who race road domestically. Their biggest road race of the year is ToC in February. Might be better to have their biggest two season targets one month apart with one international trip in between rather than two months and two trips.

[Greg Hejtmanek]

I know for sure there will be a lot lot more freeking cold races in Oregon, Washington, Montana, Colorado, Wisc, Illinois, and the North Atlantic/ New England regions if we do that. The No Cal and So Cal, Texas and Florida guys will love the cooler temps. I did a cross race in Louisiana in about 85 degree temps. That wasn't too much fun either.

I think if we change it, people will grumble for a year or two and then just man up and forget that it was ever any different. Look at the track, it went from a summer to a winter sport on the elite level. Then the guys in Oz are confused when winter is anyways.

I don't know if that would change Geoffs program that much. Do the fall races at home, Fly over to Belgium at Christmas, be in great shape for Nats in America, then the choosen few fly back for the Worlds. Some of the kids miss some school, but what a great experience. You should see all the school other sports miss or have to make up. Talk to a skater or gymnast about that.

[Dwayne Barry]

Originally Posted by zank

There has been a bunch of talk about how promoters won't be motivated to hold races if only 50-100 racers are going to show up in late December and early January.

The more significant problem is having enough racers to cover cost. The series I was involved with for the most (if you accounted for other factors such as UCI vs. Non-uci, etc.) part suffered a steady decrease thru the season then took a good hit after Thanksgiving. Now you will add Christmas/New Years and probably see another culling of the herd.

The most tenuous position will be promoters who opt for a UCI race or are involved in a series with required payouts as this is really the place, in my experience, that makes or breaks it.

[GearDaddy]

Perspective from Minnesota - not so good. After our state CX race in late November I've barely ridden. We started getting full-on winter only a week or two later. For most of December we've had a foot of snow on the ground and only a few days with above freezing temps. The skiing is great though!

Locals that went to natz had to be committed to stay in shape, i.e. riding the trainer indoors or freezing your butt off trying to train outdoors. Winter in the U.S. is much harsher than in Europe, especially for northern half of the country. Maybe this could be a good thing for the elites, but it would suck for us in the upper midwest.

[fleck]

some good points against it Gripped...

but, look at the road pros. Few even bother with the US champs. It's not nearly as important as the world cup anyway. And now we're talking about it effecting a couple riders (yes the would be the top end)

a positive... we won't get so fat over the holidays as we're still racing!

it gives pros the option of being home for the holidays which i'm sure many might like. Instead of feeling they have to go to europe to get races in.

puts CX in the season it belongs

It means less indoor mental burnout!

A later season is nice for those of us racing a spring/summer. We could get a better rest block between the two and time to build up better

beer tastes better COLD

[CouchingTiger]

I agree that weather becomes a much bigger issue as we press into actual winter. Here in the northeast this season we got heavy snow early in December and it has been around since. Aside from the warmup this week, it has also been brutally cold. I know that I'm a wuss but the thought of 'racing' on crusty snow over pock-marked sheet ice with temps in the teens isn't all that appealing.

-Couch

[gewilli]

Couch,
We don't have that problem down here in Southern New England. And the roads stay pretty darn clear between here and there all year.

Avg temps for this time of year are very raceable. IMO.