Moots Compact SL build in progress

***francois*** · 11-10-2005

I am building this bike up for a a friend. The parts are just trickling in and I need a few key components.

This thing is a work of art and it's very nice to see it come together slowly.

francois

***francois*** · 11-10-2005

Bottom bracket install. The Phil Wood BB is a thing of beauty. I had to take a picture of it before the install since it will be hidden from human eyes forever.

***francois*** · 11-10-2005

Headset Install. Nothing works like a King. This is a worthy headset for this frame. Let's see them try to outlast each other.

***francois*** · 11-10-2005

Chorus is now carbonated!!

Note: fork is just temporary. We're waiting on a Reynolds Ouzo Pro Lite. Also waiting on Velomax Ascent II wheels.

Phat&SlowVelo · 11-11-2005

Welcome to the Moots club. Your friend (imho) has the finest frameset known to man. After building it for him, you'll have to go and buy one for yourself right?

***francois*** · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phat&SlowVelo

Welcome to the Moots club. Your friend (imho) has the finest frameset known to man. After building it for him, you'll have to go and buy one for yourself right?

Hey congrats on your new Moots. Have you ridden it yet?

For years, I've thought about getting a Moots but could never justify it. Maybe this will finally convince me. It's just my size (52cm) so test sessions are in order! It's got this campynolo stuff though.

Some notes: this frame was heavier than expected at 2.7 lbs. And the price is going $200 sometime in 2006. So it'll be $3350? frame only.

francois

Howzitbroke · 11-11-2005

The frame will win. You pressed in the headset via the bearing races. This can damage the bearings. You should flip your cup guides over on the bearing press and press it in by putting the pressure on the cups that house the bearings not the races themselves. Nice tools though.

***francois*** · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howzitbroke

The frame will win. You pressed in the headset via the bearing races. This can damage the bearings. You should flip your cup guides over on the bearing press and press it in by putting the pressure on the cups that house the bearings not the races themselves. Nice tools though.

'flip the cup guides'
I'll be darned! I've been doing this for years and I never thought about that. Wow, I learned something new today!

Frick, this took some torque to get in there too. Hope it's ok.

francois

elviento · 11-11-2005

Forget the bike. What camera are you using? I am looking for a new one...

By the way, bike is hot too. It's a cyclocross bike?

Henry Chinaski · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois

'flip the cup guides'
I'll be darned! I've been doing this for years and I never thought about that. Wow, I learned something new today!

Frick, this took some torque to get in there too. Hope it's ok.

francois

Yeah, that kind of freaked me out when I saw it. In theory it's best to use the King adaptors, too. You also might want to consider putting in the seatpost and clamping the bike in by the seatpost. I don't know how light that tubing in the seat tube is...

rensho · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by elviento

Forget the bike. What camera are you using? I am looking for a new one...

By the way, bike is hot too. It's a cyclocross bike?

It is obvious by the Phil BB shot that he is using a Canon G6 with a giant flash perched on top. ;-)

j/k, i have inside info.

I looked carefully at those shots as well; they are very sharp.

That frame is beautiful. At $3300 and no fork, and 2.7lbs for a 52cm, i'm a little slow to bite. Really nice to look at though.

I know the fork is temp, but boy does it ruin the image. I was loving the shots till we got down to that one...

It is just my size too, can i come over and take it for a spin? :-)

Howzitbroke · 11-11-2005

The Park press I have has detents on the back side of the guides that a King 1 1/8" fits nicely. I have used the King adapters on other presses but the one I own works for what I need. Should be OK, it is never a recommended method but the races and bearings stainless steel and the force is not an impact. It may only last 8 years instead of 18.

terry b · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rensho

That frame is beautiful. At $3300 and no fork, and 2.7lbs for a 52cm, i'm a little slow to bite. Really nice to look at though.

Yea, I don't think one would buy a Moots expecting it to be a lightweight. My 57 was 3.4 pounds out of the box. Without trying too hard it built out to 17.5.

I think these frames are more about ride and beauty, both of which they do really well. Price-wise, certainly not much worse than the other top drawer titanium builders. Heck, a close-out Vortex is still $2250, having been $3800 for most of the year. Serotta, Seven - same ballpark. At the 3/2 frame at $2300 is pretty competitive. The difference I suppose is that the Vamoots is never discounted.

terry b · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howzitbroke

The Park press I have has detents on the back side of the guides that a King 1 1/8" fits nicely. I have used the King adapters on other presses but the one I own works for what I need. Should be OK, it is never a recommended method but the races and bearings stainless steel and the force is not an impact. It may only last 8 years instead of 18.

Yep - I pull the adapters off entirely and press in with the top and bottom sections directly. The recessed regions line up nicely with most headsets.

Learned this trick from Carl Strong.

Picshooter · 11-11-2005

Beautiful welds and careful attention to detail. I really like the look.
I wonder if all the screws on all Moots headbadges are lined up? I know mine are.
I was fortunate to find a barely used one in my size. The fit was great, the ride even better.

Henry Chinaski · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry b

Yea, I don't think one would buy a Moots expecting it to be a lightweight. My 57 was 3.4 pounds out of the box. Without trying too hard it built out to 17.5.

Wow, that's heavier than I thought they were. Last time I checked a high quality (Steelman, IF, etc) and non-lightweight steel frame in that size will be about 3.5 pounds or so.

Henry Chinaski · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry b

Yep - I pull the adapters off entirely and press in with the top and bottom sections directly. The recessed regions line up nicely with most headsets.

Learned this trick from Carl Strong.

I think I'd had problems with the recessed regions on the Park when pressing in 1" headests... I just use the homemade $3 press now with flat washers.

wayneanneli · 11-11-2005

Francois, it's not a big deal, but should this thread be in the new Moots forum? Anyway, I love your friend's frame. And I remember the joy of watching my friend, the pro bicycle mechanic, help me put together my Moots. Piece by piece, what a joy. Your friend will get heaps of pleasure from that bicycle.
Cheers, Wayne

***francois*** · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rensho

It is obvious by the Phil BB shot that he is using a Canon G6 with a giant flash perched on top. ;-)

j/k, i have inside info.

I looked carefully at those shots as well; they are very sharp.

That frame is beautiful. At $3300 and no fork, and 2.7lbs for a 52cm, i'm a little slow to bite. Really nice to look at though.

I know the fork is temp, but boy does it ruin the image. I was loving the shots till we got down to that one...

It is just my size too, can i come over and take it for a spin? :-)

Ha, ha! My friend John took pro photos of phil wood hubs and had the hardest time. He said he had to clear everything in the room since you could see the reflection on the hub.

The owner of the bike, Derek, is going to China for 3 weeks! I'm sure we can get you some saddle time on this bike.

Epic UCSC ride tomorrow Rensho. Time to get off that road bike. Trail conditions are purrrfect.

francois

terry b · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski

Wow, that's heavier than I thought they were. Last time I checked a high quality (Steelman, IF, etc) and non-lightweight steel frame in that size will be about 3.5 pounds or so.

My S3 Vanilla weighed .25 lbs less. My 725 (!) Kirk weighed only an ounce or so more. It's no flyweight.

***francois*** · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayneanneli

Francois, it's not a big deal, but should this thread be in the new Moots forum? Anyway, I love your friend's frame. And I remember the joy of watching my friend, the pro bicycle mechanic, help me put together my Moots. Piece by piece, what a joy. Your friend will get heaps of pleasure from that bicycle.
Cheers, Wayne

Yeah, this is cross-posted on the Moots forum. That place was heavily requested but it's not seeing any action yet.

francois

***francois*** · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by elviento

Forget the bike. What camera are you using? I am looking for a new one...

By the way, bike is hot too. It's a cyclocross bike?

As Rensho said, this is a Canon G6. There's a big external flash but I didn't use it. Some tricks for photos are:

- take photos outside, around sunset
- use the macro button so it can focus close-up
- set the aperture very low (like 2.0) so the background will be blurry
- avoid the flash at all costs. if you need it, it's nice to have a big external flash pointed at the ceiling.

fc

***francois*** · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howzitbroke

The frame will win. You pressed in the headset via the bearing races. This can damage the bearings. You should flip your cup guides over on the bearing press and press it in by putting the pressure on the cups that house the bearings not the races themselves. Nice tools though.

Another issue. I'm kind of proud of my bottom bracket install. I've used a Phil Wood ti BB in my last bike but it would work it's way loose and eventually creak. It turns out that I was installing them completely wrong. I was greasing the cups. Instead there should be no grease, just loctite.

Anyway, I went to the Phil Wood factory (San Jose) and Brent straightened out a couple of other issues
- changed spindle to Campy compatible
- changed the cups to steel since ti to ti would creak
- gave me loctite and install directions

So I installed it and it's perfect. Except in retrospect... maybe each cup didn't need 10 drops of blue loctite. I was using it like grease and coating the whole thread surface. This bad boy is never coming out.

francois

Henry Chinaski · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois

Another issue. I'm kind of proud of my bottom bracket install. I've used a Phil Wood ti BB in my last bike but it would work it's way loose and eventually creak. It turns out that I was installing them completely wrong. I was greasing the cups. Instead there should be no grease, just loctite.

Anyway, I went to the Phil Wood factory (San Jose) and Brent straightened out a couple of other issues
- changed spindle to Campy compatible
- changed the cups to steel since ti to ti would creak
- gave me loctite and install directions

So I installed it and it's perfect. Except in retrospect... maybe each cup didn't need 10 drops of blue loctite. I was using it like grease and coating the whole thread surface. This bad boy is never coming out.

francois

Phil Wood recommends using loctite?

I've never had an issue with grease and proper torque, especially on English bbs.

Henry Chinaski · 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry b

My S3 Vanilla weighed .25 lbs less. My 725 (!) Kirk weighed only an ounce or so more. It's no flyweight.

Moots: ti boat anchor.