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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Thanks. Problem with the galvantic corrosion theory is...carbon fiber isn't prone to it.
    I'm no engineer and just because Boeing is in my back yard does not make me a specialist either, but carbon fiber and aluminum will cause serious corrosion issues without the necessary steps to keep it at bay. Typically there is a layer of fiberglass, but I'm certain there are other steps that can be taken. Both materials can transmit electricity and due to their different ratings, that is where the problem starts. Insulate the materials will prevent the issue.

    Just because any of us have never seen it, doesn't mean it does not happen. I certainly can believe that at least one frame left the line with a flaw and with corrosion, it's a matter of time before it shows it's ugly head.

    I'm looking forward to the end of the story.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Thanks. Problem with the galvantic corrosion theory is...carbon fiber isn't prone to it.
    Uhhh. WRONG.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Butcher View Post
    I'm no engineer and just because Boeing is in my back yard does not make me a specialist either, but carbon fiber and aluminum will cause serious corrosion issues without the necessary steps to keep it at bay.
    I'm an engineer. And you are absolutely correct. But don't take my word for it. I'm just some dude on the interwebs.


    Boeing | Aero 07 - Design for Corrosion
    For example, graphite fibers, which are used to reinforce some plastic structure, present a particularly challenging galvanic corrosion combination. The fibers are good electrical conductors and they produce a large galvanic potential with the aluminum alloys

    https://www.corrosionpedia.com/2/155...orced-polymers
    Aluminum alloys are extremely vulnerable when they are coupled to a carbon composite.

    Galvanic Corrosion in Carbon Fiber Materials - Blog - Proven Productivity
    The issue with using carbon fiber materials for fastener applications is that carbon fiber is electrically conductive, thus making it more susceptible to galvanic corrosion. When coupled with a fastener, bolt or nut, the situation worsens. Aluminum and plain steel, when coupled with a carbon composite, are both highly susceptible to galvanic corrosion.
    Galvanic corrosion with carbon fiber materials has been an issue for decades, but experts have yet to produce a universal solution for the problem.
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  3. #28
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    Good stuff tig. Somewhat agree with Butcher as well...his assertion.
    I believe what we have here is likely galvanic corrosion. Hard to ascribe a different root cause.

    I have been around the sport for many years. Will say again, I have NEVER seen it.
    This maybe a first. A black swan. Very rare. Virtually never discussed on bike forums because it virtually never exists. CF has been around for well over a decade on bicycles.
    So, this maybe a clear and blatant instance. If others here have seen it before on homogenous carbon fiber frames...not carbon/Al or carbon/Ti composites, please post your experience.

  4. #29
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    You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.

  5. #30
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    I've read my fair share of bashing on the internet, I do not believe the OP started this thread intending on bashing anyone.

    Certainly, this thread is not done and could turn out to be that way.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcb78 View Post
    You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.
    Perhaps in not your best interest rcb...but that doesn't excuse others from talking about galvanic corrosion of CF frames on the web. Guess what? It is virtually never discussed in the context of carbon fiber as a common or uncommon failure mode. Galvanic corrosion of carbon fiber is virtually a non issue. I admit, this looks like galvanic corrosion of the OP's bike. I ride with owners, techs and workers at lbs. Galvanic corrosion would be discussed if it is an issue. It isn't. But looks like we have it here and hope the OP gets support from Specialized. As discussed, I own literally the identical bike and model year with 10r carbon in a very salty environment near the beach on the coast of FL and no issue...about 30,000 miles on the bike.

  7. #32
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    I stand by what I said and have no need to prove it. I'd think someone like you would understand the what I meant when I mentioned numbers, guess I was wrong.

  8. #33
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    If you have a look at some of the Youtube videos from Luescher Teknik (he has a background in aerospace, bike design and does carbon bike repairs) he often talks about and shows Galvanic corosion on carbon frames and in carbon wheels (he cuts them up). Usually around water bottle mounts, spoke nipples, carbon bars/ alloy stems etc caused by sweat. Cycling Maven and Shane Miller also have videos featuring Raoul Luescher talking about Galvanic Corosion in carbon parts. (Usually has an associated alloy part with it)

  9. #34
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    Hereare a couple of shots from Raoul's IG feed, but the videos are more informative

    2012 Roubaix- warranty job?-image.jpg2012 Roubaix- warranty job?-image.jpg2012 Roubaix- warranty job?-image.jpg2012 Roubaix- warranty job?-image.jpg

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcb78 View Post
    I stand by what I said and have no need to prove it. I'd think someone like you would understand the what I meant when I mentioned numbers, guess I was wrong.
    Cool. Feel ya. I do look through the lens of probability. All of us do as bike riders...including if we believe that galvanic corrosion is a game changer every time we get on our bikes...including living along a salty sea coast like I do and my other 200 carbon bike riding club friends. We don't have a problem with it.
    Does it exist? Yes...appears so. So do CAT 1 racers on MUPs. Rare.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcb78 View Post
    You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.
    Currently have an issue with corrosion on the top of the bottom bracket shell of a 2009, Roubaix S-Works SL-2.

    I will say that the Specialized warranty is somewhat of a joke.

    It's for the lifetime of the original owner and corrosion is not covered.

    Also it's comical that they point out that living in a hot, humid, salt air environment, will cause them to cast doubt on any warranty claims. That disclaimer eliminates a pretty fair proportion of the American populace on the Eastern Seaboard.

    I happened to have purchased the bike in S Florida.

    It's hardly evident at this point and can barely be seen in the pictures sent to Specialized.

    They haven't pulled the crank, but the bearings which have been replaced at least 4 times by another Specialized dealer are silky smooth.


    The bike probably has over 50K miles on it, but as I mentioned to the shop manager at the Specialized dealer, the mileage is completely irrelevant IMHO.

    CF frames are promoted as corrosion and "wear and tear" proof apart from crash damage.

    As for galvanic corrosion being rare, I have two Look KG 381's with alloy lugs and the Team Edition, has substantial bubbling around the lugs..The Jalabert Edition has no corrosion.

    The warranty is laughable..

    https://media.specialized.com/suppor...0009968_r3.pdf

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcb78 View Post
    You see it when you work in a shop, not an overwhelmingly large number of bikes, but it is out there. It's simply a numbers game, decades of riding many bikes will never compete with what comes through the door in a single year at a busy shop. Best example is Al nipples in carbon rims in a wet and salty environment. Give it a few years and they look absolutely nasty. I've seen plenty of other failures too, it's just not worth the effort to blast them out on the web everytime I see something like that. I'd rather spend my time riding than frame bashing online.
    Specialized warranty regarding corrosion is absolutely laughable.

    I have an issue on the NDS at the top of the bottom bracket shell where the paint is starting to become raised in about a 2 cm arc.

    https://media.specialized.com/suppor...0009968_r3.pdf

    It's a 2009 Roubaix S-Works SL-2 with about 50K miles on it.

    I'm thinking that's a normal amount for an avid cyclist and the shop manager is acting like it's excessive which would negate any warranty.

    Especially since, outside of a crash, the frame is supposed to last forever.

    I'm talking to the shop manager who's going to present me with a list of complete bike crash replacement options. (I bought it as a frame and seatpost originally)

    I'm a little annoyed at the default to the "crash replacement" idea, being that the aluminum shell was known as a point of corrosion for a while and carbon alternatives have existed for a while.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhammer View Post
    Specialized warranty regarding corrosion is absolutely laughable.

    I have an issue on the NDS at the top of the bottom bracket shell where the paint is starting to become raised in about a 2 cm arc.

    https://media.specialized.com/suppor...0009968_r3.pdf

    It's a 2009 Roubaix S-Works SL-2 with about 50K miles on it.

    I'm thinking that's a normal amount for an avid cyclist and the shop manager is acting like it's excessive which would negate any warranty.

    Especially since, outside of a crash, the frame is supposed to last forever.

    I'm talking to the shop manager who's going to present me with a list of complete bike crash replacement options. (I bought it as a frame and seatpost originally)

    I'm a little annoyed at the default to the "crash replacement" idea, being that the aluminum shell was known as a point of corrosion for a while and carbon alternatives have existed for a while.
    I did speak to Calfee and the fella there told me a lot of BB corrosion is cosmetic, but I really have no way of knowing that at the moment.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhammer View Post
    I did speak to Calfee and the fella there told me a lot of BB corrosion is cosmetic, but I really have no way of knowing that at the moment.
    My LBS didn't even remove the crankset to have a look inside the bottom bracket.

    However, Specialized had a list of complete bikes to "crash replace" my frame at like 30-40% off retail??

    I didn't get into it with the LBS, but I don't think I'll be using them again.

    They wanted $35 to pull the cranks off for an inspection of a $2,700 retail frame?

    Seems excessive.

    Am I off here?



    I'm going to have to call Specialized directly.

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