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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mile2424 View Post
    He never raced on them to my knowledge, I am sure he has ridden some test rides with them including wheelies on his blinged out gold wheeled version
    I have friends that rode with him in LA while he was there training, he was on discs.

    As I noted earlier

    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    The OP was asking about the availability of the disc brake Tarmac, since the rim brake version is already available there was no need for you to insert your opinion on disc brakes into this discussion.


    Until it's ruled that everyone needs to be racing on discs, pros are always going to choose not to run them if there is a perceived disadvantage to someone who is not using them. Why would you take a chance on a potentially slower wheel change, etc. when you know your competition is not going to have that issue?
    And BTW, I saw an interview with some pros asking if they wanted disc, many were indifferent and a few who said they didn't want them admitted they had never even tried them.
    I've also seen photos of quite a few pros on disc brakes while training, so unless you are racing at the sharp end of the stick, worrying about such marginal gains is a bit silly and you should be looking more to what the pros ride when training (or after retiring) than what they are racing on.


    .


    .

    I also know that Phil Gaimon is riding a disc bike around LA now that he is retired.
    Last edited by MoPho; 10-18-2017 at 03:59 PM.

  2. #27
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    Ever notice how whenever there is a rim brake bike question folks who ride disc brake always insert themselves into the discussion, then begin telling others how much rim brakes suck and how they shouldn't buy rim brake bikes...? Yeah, me neither


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  3. #28
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    [QUOTE=MoPho;5191894]I have friends that rode with him in LA while he was there training, he was on discs.

    Again, never "raced" on them

    Back to the discussion, I am eager to try both versions of the new Tarmac. Everyone seems to love the rim brake version so far, and I am sure the feedback on the disc brake bike will be just as good.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mile2424 View Post
    Again, never "raced" on them
    Again, that doesn't mean he "prefers" rim brakes

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Again, that doesn't mean he "prefers" rim brakes T
    The truth about Sagan is that he actually prefers mountain bikes. So, my guess is he is extremely comfortable riding discs.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Hear ya. That disc Felt is a veritable boat anchor compared to this rim braked Emonda SL10 and of course the most recent Tarmac disc is even porkier than the Felt. If dropping $8-10K for a bike, might as well get some benefit:

    Trek Emonda - a 10lb road bike - BikeRadar USA
    Yeah, the Trek weight is crazy.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Again, that doesn't mean he "prefers" rim brakes
    Yes it does. Sagan prefers rim brakes as do 98% of the pro peloton. Disc brakes are currently legal. Big bike brands are the sponsors of pro racing. Pretty much all big bike makers manufacture a disc brake bike that can be raced in the pro ranks.

    Pretty much all big bike brands want to 'upsell' disk brakes for drum roll...'higher profit'...why big bike brands exist. Also, big bike brands want to win pro races. Winning pro races sells more bikes and why they invest the marketing dollars in pro racing. If pros felt they were faster on disc brake bikes, they would be on them because they want to win, be famous and make more money.

    Pros invariably choose rim brakes because overall, they believe they are superior to disk brakes. For the average rider who isn't in the grueling crucible of top level racing, where there isn't the onus on 50 mph descending in wet weather and where there is no UCI weight constraint of 15 lbs, demand for rim brakes should be even higher. The only reason that big bike makers offer disk brakes on a racing bike is to upsell, create a differential product aka marketing and extoll more money from the public. What an odd construct. Big companies trying to market a product and trying to make more money. Same exact reason in fact that Specialized sold their narrow version of PF30 on their flagship S-works bikes which is inferior to BB30...to create a marketing differential to separate and upsell their S-works models which of course they discontinued because it was inferior. Same reason for SCS which they have now discontinued on the Diverge...to create a market niche...thinking it would translate to more revenue because would make their wheelsets proprietary and the opposite happened. They lost sales due to lack of wheelset commonality.

    Disc brakes are antithetical to racing as pros clearly know as they vote by what they ride because big bike makers would prefer them on disks but pros know better than guys who are willing to buy a heavier and less aero and more expensive disk brake bike who believe disk braking is better for how they ride. Maintenance with hydraulics also sucks with disk brakes.
    Last edited by 11spd; 10-19-2017 at 02:22 AM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    I actually wouldn't bank on that. The change in cyclocross happened relatively quickly once the thumbs up was given and I could see the same thing happening on the road. Once you eliminate the weight issue the way companies like Trek, BMC, Scott, Fuji, Felt, and Specialized are doing, there's not many strong arguments for sticking with rim brakes left. The aero thing is a marginal issue at best. A bunch of pros aren't even on aero bikes and companies like Cannondale doesn't even make one. Many pros seem to get adequate aerodynamics from fit and wheels, etc. It's happening and soon IMO.
    Cross and Mtb racing is a completely different world. I prefer disks for example on both Cross an Mtb's due to tire width and riding environment. Road racing is a different environment. So is F1 and Nascar.
    Last edited by 11spd; 10-19-2017 at 03:12 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Yes it does. Sagan prefers rim brakes as do 98% of the pro peloton. Disc brakes are currently legal. Big bike brands are the sponsors of pro racing. Pretty much all big bike makers manufacture a disc brake bike that can be raced in the pro ranks.

    Pretty much all big bike brands want to 'upsell' disk brakes for drum roll...'higher profit'...why big bike brands exist. Also, big bike brands want to win pro races. Winning pro races sells more bikes and why they invest the marketing dollars in pro racing. If pros felt they were faster on disc brake bikes, they would be on them because they want to win, be famous and make more money.

    Pros invariably choose rim brakes because overall, they believe they are superior to disk brakes. For the average rider who isn't in the grueling crucible of top level racing, where there isn't the onus on 50 mph descending in wet weather and where there is no UCI weight constraint of 15 lbs, demand for rim brakes should be even higher. The only reason that big bike makers offer disk brakes on a racing bike is to upsell, create a differential product aka marketing and extoll more money from the public. What an odd construct. Big companies trying to market a product and trying to make more money. Same exact reason in fact that Specialized sold their narrow version of PF30 on their flagship S-works bikes which is inferior to BB30...to create a marketing differential to separate and upsell their S-works models which of course they discontinued because it was inferior. Same reason for SCS which they have now discontinued on the Diverge...to create a market niche...thinking it would translate to more revenue because would make their wheelsets proprietary and the opposite happened. They lost sales due to lack of wheelset commonality.

    Disc brakes are antithetical to racing as pros clearly know as they vote by what they ride because big bike makers would prefer them on disks but pros know better than guys who are willing to buy a heavier and less aero and more expensive disk brake bike who believe disk braking is better for how they ride. Maintenance with hydraulics also sucks with disk brakes.
    Do you just copy and paste this response in every disc brake, specialized, or SCS thread you can find? Go troll somewhere else.

  10. #35
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    So, when again are we assuming the disc version will be available? Isn't that what this thread was about? I can't remember

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    Do you just copy and paste this response in every disc brake, specialized, or SCS thread you can find? Go troll somewhere else.
    Rather you are trolling me with no substantive rebuttal. I merely stating the record. Of course this doesn't set well with some who believe in heavier, less aero bikes with more fiddly maintenance. Of course those that make this decision and I am guessing that's you, don't like the truth.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Yes it does. Sagan prefers rim brakes as do 98% of the pro peloton. Disc brakes are currently legal. Big bike brands are the sponsors of pro racing. Pretty much all big bike makers manufacture a disc brake bike that can be raced in the pro ranks.

    Pretty much all big bike brands want to 'upsell' disk brakes for drum roll...'higher profit'...why big bike brands exist. Also, big bike brands want to win pro races. Winning pro races sells more bikes and why they invest the marketing dollars in pro racing. If pros felt they were faster on disc brake bikes, they would be on them because they want to win, be famous and make more money.

    Pros invariably choose rim brakes because overall, they believe they are superior to disk brakes. For the average rider who isn't in the grueling crucible of top level racing, where there isn't the onus on 50 mph descending in wet weather and where there is no UCI weight constraint of 15 lbs, demand for rim brakes should be even higher. The only reason that big bike makers offer disk brakes on a racing bike is to upsell, create a differential product aka marketing and extoll more money from the public. What an odd construct. Big companies trying to market a product and trying to make more money. Same exact reason in fact that Specialized sold their narrow version of PF30 on their flagship S-works bikes which is inferior to BB30...to create a marketing differential to separate and upsell their S-works models which of course they discontinued because it was inferior. Same reason for SCS which they have now discontinued on the Diverge...to create a market niche...thinking it would translate to more revenue because would make their wheelsets proprietary and the opposite happened. They lost sales due to lack of wheelset commonality.

    Disc brakes are antithetical to racing as pros clearly know as they vote by what they ride because big bike makers would prefer them on disks but pros know better than guys who are willing to buy a heavier and less aero and more expensive disk brake bike who believe disk braking is better for how they ride. Maintenance with hydraulics also sucks with disk brakes.




    .

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    The truth about Sagan is that he actually prefers mountain bikes. So, my guess is he is extremely comfortable riding discs.
    Yes...and therefore more telling that he prefers rim brakes for road racing.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    Yeah, the Trek weight is crazy.
    Yes, and an expensive bike. You will see frame weight come down to the Emonda range more commonly as carbon morphs in the next decade. Point is..you get something for the money with the Emonda...not more weight.

  15. #40
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    Look at 11spd spewing nonsense like it’s gospel.

    https://youtu.be/2iYYLhtDHpg

    Reactions in this 2015 video range from “It needs to be tested” to “they’re ugly” to “everyone needs to switch at the same time” to “it wil be better for heat management and safer in the rain” to “I don’t think they look bad.”

    https://youtu.be/xvWBwhpml5w

    More indifference in this video. About the strongest negative opinion was that rim brakes with carbon tubs are adequate, and that the UCI needs a concrete ruling on the legality of disc brakes. Owain Doull’s shoe was mentioned, but as we know that damage was almost surely not caused by a rotor.

    Ultimately I think we’ll see guards/fairings on the rotors due to rider safety concerns, but it’s clear the pros acknowledge the braking is better and that the wholesale switch will eventually be made.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceugene View Post
    Look at 11spd spewing nonsense like it’s gospel.

    https://youtu.be/2iYYLhtDHpg

    Reactions in this 2015 video range from “It needs to be tested” to “they’re ugly” to “everyone needs to switch at the same time” to “it wil be better for heat management and safer in the rain” to “I don’t think they look bad.”

    https://youtu.be/xvWBwhpml5w

    More indifference in this video. About the strongest negative opinion was that rim brakes with carbon tubs are adequate, and that the UCI needs a concrete ruling on the legality of disc brakes. Owain Doull’s shoe was mentioned, but as we know that damage was almost surely not caused by a rotor.

    Ultimately I think we’ll see guards/fairings on the rotors due to rider safety concerns, but it’s clear the pros acknowledge the braking is better and that the wholesale switch will eventually be made.
    Just to be clear, I am not against disks. For example, if buying a disk brake bike with rear rack, you can bungie a Frisbee to the back. At least that disk has a modicum of utility.

    I love the forecast about disk usage. Yes, the sun will burn out eventually as well. Anybody see the pro racing in CO this past year? I saw '1' disk brake bike....lol. Maybe that was a spectator who made his way onto the course? Apparently that guy didn't get the memo either.

  17. #42
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    Dude STFU already, nobody cares about your personal opinion on disc brakes! Nobody cares what you *believe* the pros are thinking. Carbon wheel rim brakes are a compromise, plain and simple. I (and apparently everyone else in this thread) am not paying for a super premium bike with the newest technology and getting compromised brakes. They hardly work in the rain and are not an ideal braking surface. Pros aren't worried about getting t-boned by a car running a red light or turning without looking. I don't have time to wait an extra 30 yards for my brakes to dry off, then finally grip while I'm trying not to die. Similarly, everyone said electronic shifting was stupid and unnecessary and wouldn't catch on, but find a pro team now that doesn't have most if not all their riders on Di2, etap, or EPS. No more worries of cables being pinched or kinked or gunking up and shifting badly. Same with disc brakes. Not sure where your maintenance issue comes from, but I haven't had a single problem with the brakes on my Crux.


    Again, back to the original topic. I am specifically waiting on the Tarmac Pro di2 disc. I'm buying through a friend that owns a local shop and his spesh rep says Dec/Jan because they are waiting on availability of disc stuff from Shimano. Doesn't sound like it'll be any earlier, unfortunately. I've been pestering him about this for months, so I'm sure he'll let me know precisely when he hears back from Specialized.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    Dude STFU already, nobody cares about your personal opinion on disc brakes! Nobody cares what you *believe* the pros are thinking. Carbon wheel rim brakes are a compromise, plain and simple. I (and apparently everyone else in this thread) am not paying for a super premium bike with the newest technology and getting compromised brakes. They hardly work in the rain and are not an ideal braking surface. Pros aren't worried about getting t-boned by a car running a red light or turning without looking. I don't have time to wait an extra 30 yards for my brakes to dry off, then finally grip while I'm trying not to die. Similarly, everyone said electronic shifting was stupid and unnecessary and wouldn't catch on, but find a pro team now that doesn't have most if not all their riders on Di2, etap, or EPS. No more worries of cables being pinched or kinked or gunking up and shifting badly. Same with disc brakes. Not sure where your maintenance issue comes from, but I haven't had a single problem with the brakes on my Crux.


    Again, back to the original topic. I am specifically waiting on the Tarmac Pro di2 disc. I'm buying through a friend that owns a local shop and his spesh rep says Dec/Jan because they are waiting on availability of disc stuff from Shimano. Doesn't sound like it'll be any earlier, unfortunately. I've been pestering him about this for months, so I'm sure he'll let me know precisely when he hears back from Specialized.
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post

    Again, back to the original topic. I am specifically waiting on the Tarmac Pro di2 disc.
    Sorry, electric shifting, disc brake race bikes make me laugh is all. Only thing missing is DVD player..lol.
    A Harley Davidson of road bikes.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Sorry, electric shifting, disc brake race bikes make me laugh is all. Only thing missing is DVD player..lol.
    A Harley Davidson of road bikes.
    Until you're a sponsored racer, your views are null and void

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  21. #46
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    But what about the Roubaix which is already available with DA Di2? I road it last weekend...


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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Sorry, electric shifting, disc brake race bikes make me laugh is all. Only thing missing is DVD player..lol.
    A Harley Davidson of road bikes.
    I'm guessing you still drive a car with a manual trans, roll-up windows, carb'd engine, bias ply tires and drum brakes, eh?

  23. #48
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    I don't race.

    I don't care (much) about component weight.

    I want the improved braking.

    I want the additional flexibility of wider wheel and tire options.

    I have a really nice bike with rim brakes.

    I have a really nice bike with disc brakes.

    The rim brake bike I have is the last one I will ever buy.

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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    I'm guessing you still drive a car with a manual trans, roll-up windows, carb'd engine, bias ply tires and drum brakes, eh?
    If choosing this analogy, there is a reason why a Porsche is more minimalist than a Mercedes.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migen21 View Post
    I don't race.

    I don't care (much) about component weight.

    I want the improved braking.

    I want the additional flexibility of wider wheel and tire options.

    I have a really nice bike with rim brakes.

    I have a really nice bike with disc brakes.

    The rim brake bike I have is the last one I will ever buy.

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    Your probably a good candidate then. I also think that if you live in the mountains and do a lot of high speed descending...and ride a lot in wet weather, a disk brake makes sense...other than you have to drag the bike back up the mountain. ;)

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