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Thread: 2018 Tarmac

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    I am with you. I like both this and the new BMC Teammachine. They are different, but both interesting on some level. Can't wait to see them in person. Pricing should be better on the Tarmac. There's reportedly a new Emonda out there too, but thus far it looks exactly like the old one. I have beeen hearing rumors of a new Giant Propel possibly being released as well.

    Here's the new Emonda..



    Compared to the old one.
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    The biggest complaint people had about the SL emonda was that it felt too soft... a little noodle-y. I'm guessing that this new frame addresses those critiques. It looks to have a very beefy down tube and head tube. The shoulders of the seat stays look wider as well, which I think would stiffen up the rear without stiffening up the ride quality to much. The chain stays seem beefier as well. It will be interesting to see if weight stayed the same, went down or went up.
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  3. #28
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    The new Tarmac looks like the new BMC TeamMachine and the new Emonda looks like the SL5 Tarmac haha.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    The new Tarmac looks like the new BMC TeamMachine and the new Emonda looks like the SL5 Tarmac haha.
    What goes around comes around. ;-)
    Last edited by 11spd; 06-06-2017 at 05:33 AM.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumper8888 View Post
    Yup... but not on a Vias.
    Why not? Many VIAS owners toss the integrated stem and opt for a conventional stem with external cable routing to free up options and make set up more tunable.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TricrossRich View Post
    The biggest complaint people had about the SL emonda was that it felt too soft... a little noodle-y. I'm guessing that this new frame addresses those critiques. It looks to have a very beefy down tube and head tube. The shoulders of the seat stays look wider as well, which I think would stiffen up the rear without stiffening up the ride quality to much. The chain stays seem beefier as well. It will be interesting to see if weight stayed the same, went down or went up.
    The look still doesn't excite me all that much, but if the ride quality is spot on, that may alter my perception a bit. I am so tired of the Trek integrated seatmast though. Right now, I have the BMC a little bit ahead of the new Tarmac as the best looking new rig. I am little concerned that the the significantly smaller rear triangle on the Tarmac might limit wheel and tire options, but we'll see.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    The look still doesn't excite me all that much, but if the ride quality is spot on, that may alter my perception a bit. I am so tired of the Trek integrated seatmast though. Right now, I have the BMC a little bit ahead of the new Tarmac as the best looking new rig. I am little concerned that the the significantly smaller rear triangle on the Tarmac might limit wheel and tire options, but we'll see.
    It could be argued that the Trek integrated seat mast sucks more than the revised hidden Tarmac seat clamp. I just built a size 56 Emonda for a buddy of mine. 56 H2 geometry is his correct fit...he is all torso and short inseam. With the shortest seat post collar Trek sells, I still had to cut down the mast on the frame by 1 cm. I hate cutting a new frameset for the seat mast. Yes, Trek can tune their ride quality a bit with this design...but it comes with a cost. Further, just like with many other bikes now sold including the VIAS and likely new D shape seatpost Tarmac, there is no option for a two bolt seatpost. At least Cervelo, Pinarello and a few others sell their frames with proprietary 2 bolt aero posts which work well as all 2 bolt clamps do.

    The average guy is pretty clueless about design and the choices big manufacturers make and why. They mostly buy on appearance, weight and perception of speed and then unknowingly stuck with the consequences. Integrated BB's are the biggest 'gottcha' of a high end bike purchase. Better now than just a few short years ago but press fit BB's at least now with integrated bearings and cups are still an abomination. BB30 common on new Specialized can at least be tamed to a tolerable level but if bike tech's voted throughout the country, they would still choose BSA.
    Last edited by 11spd; 06-06-2017 at 06:44 AM.

  8. #33
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    I would definitely take the BMC or Specialized hidden seatpost screw over the Trek seatmast cap. I don't why they don't start putting the system they used on the Madone on all of their new bikes. It looks a million times better and there are a number of ways to add compliance that aren't as ugly (including their own isospeed decoupler).
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  9. #34
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    Lol. That tarmac seatpost wedge is the bane of my existence. Love fishing it out of frame. Love having to put the frame at exactly the right angle to hold it in place during seatpost install. And why did they do that? Because it's different.

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by goodboyr; 06-06-2017 at 09:38 AM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Why not? Many VIAS owners toss the integrated stem and opt for a conventional stem with external cable routing to free up options and make set up more tunable.
    And that's totally reasonable.
    Swapping stems out for example is indeed a VAST p.i.a.
    But mine fits well, and did so right off the bat thanks to that odd online Vias fit tool...so it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to spend more money on another stem and bars that may yield marginally worse aerodynamics just to solve the junction box issue that I just solved pretty elegantly with the bar end junction.

    And then there is the whole issue of taking an aero bike designed to run without exposed cables and compromising that design with external cables... you are starting to undermine what really is that bike's only advantage.
    Pretty soon you have a bike that is heavy, brakes marginally, is expensive and ... not the top of the heap in aero.
    At that point, it starts to make sense to walk away from the Venge and get an S5m which is lighter and stops better and has more flexible component choices.
    Except that the S5 is due a redesign any second and it probably will hide the cables this time.

    In truth, if I didn't do bar end, I'd reinstall the blister plate under the BB and put it there rather than go the new stem route.
    What I'd really like is for Shimano to go ahead and get on the right side of history and do a wireless system.
    It's pretty much certain that they will, but I guess it will be another three years.
    Last edited by thumper8888; 06-06-2017 at 08:22 AM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodboyr View Post
    Lol. That tarmac seatpost wedge is the name of my existence. Love fishing it out of frame. Love having to put the frame at exactly the right angle to hold it in place during seatpost install. And why did they do that? Because it's different.

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
    different aka they went for a cleaner aesthetic...so called more 'aero post clamp design'. Of course and almost unmanagement clamp design doesn't seem to matter. If you think about it...it isn't much different than the brakes they put on the VIAS...aero at what cost to performance?...or the cable routing through the stem...huge PITA to change cables versus what?.... 0.5 watts saved at speeds mortals don't ride? Also you didn't mention how easy it is to chip the paint around the allen screw on the hidden Tarmac clamp. All to be different and not better indeed. Different to carve out a marketing niche to sell more bikes until the sucked in consumer has to live with the consequences.

    Basically what it comes down to when shopping for a new road bike is pick the bike with fewest number of tradeoffs.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Basically what it comes down to when shopping for a new road bike is pick the bike with fewest number of tradeoffs.
    Ding ding ding, a winner!
    Still... no matter how few compromises I do draw the line at ugly. I will not ride an ugly bike. Life's too short, and there are far too many fine looking bike designs that are at the top of the heap in the other ways too.

  13. #38
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    Lol. Yes! And the little rubber plug that gets lost.

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumper8888 View Post
    Ding ding ding, a winner!
    Still... no matter how few compromises I do draw the line at ugly. I will not ride an ugly bike. Life's too short, and there are far too many fine looking bike designs that are at the top of the heap in the other ways too.
    Agreed. I really liked the Venge Vias Disc until I saw one in a shop today. I don't know if it was the 3" of spacers under the gooseneck looking stem, but I just wasn't feeling the large slabsided downtube. I like the way this new Tarmac looks, but I won't buy another rim brake bike, so I'll wait to see how the disc version looks first.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    Agreed. I really liked the Venge Vias Disc until I saw one in a shop today. I don't know if it was the 3" of spacers under the gooseneck looking stem, but I just wasn't feeling the large slabsided downtube. I like the way this new Tarmac looks, but I won't buy another rim brake bike, so I'll wait to see how the disc version looks first.
    Curious dcorn as you seem pretty set on a disc brake bike. Do you live in the mountains? Have you owned disc brake bikes either mechanical or hydraulic? What is your experience?

    Reason I ask is...the bike shown has a pinned number and is a race bike. Disc brakes are currently allowed in pro racing. If such an overwhelming advantage, why would Spesh go to the trouble of redesigning a caliper brake version of the tne Tarmac and simply convert to disc like on the VIAS?

    Thoughts?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    Agreed. I really liked the Venge Vias Disc until I saw one in a shop today. I don't know if it was the 3" of spacers under the gooseneck looking stem, but I just wasn't feeling the large slabsided downtube. I like the way this new Tarmac looks, but I won't buy another rim brake bike, so I'll wait to see how the disc version looks first.
    In fairness to the spacers.. the shop is not going to cut anything till its sold.
    PO is a liberal echo chamber.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    They redesign these things on a pretty tight 3 year cycle. Why did you buy a bike in the 3rd year?

    I doubt your frame will be even remotely outdated even with this new design. Peter Sagan won the WC on it last year when it was 2 years old.
    My venge frame broke and I didn't want to go disc with the VIAS as that would require a new groupset/brakes/wheels or want the extra weight of the VIAS design due to all the hills in central MA and didn't have a backup bike to ride until they release the new tarmac. Their redesign schedule didn't even cross my mind though, I just needed something to ride. I guess I could have just bought an entry level first gen venge and moved my components over but I kind of wanted to try something new.

    I'm not really upset about it but had circumstances been different I would have likely waited for the new design as there would have been no rush to get something new. I have a little over 1100 miles on the Tarmac already and I'm pretty happy with it. It should last me until the next round of aero bikes is released as I'm not completely sold on the current offerings.
    Last edited by taodemon; 06-07-2017 at 06:42 AM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Curious dcorn as you seem pretty set on a disc brake bike. Do you live in the mountains? Have you owned disc brake bikes either mechanical or hydraulic? What is your experience?

    Reason I ask is...the bike shown has a pinned number and is a race bike. Disc brakes are currently allowed in pro racing. If such an overwhelming advantage, why would Spesh go to the trouble of redesigning a caliper brake version of the tne Tarmac and simply convert to disc like on the VIAS?

    Thoughts?
    Clearly they design the rim brake bike because lots of pros don't want discs and lots of amateurs don't want it either. Doesn't matter to me what others ride. You can tell me rim brakes are equal to discs until you are blue in the face, but I'll never agree with you.

    All of the above. The only braking setup I haven't had is carbon wheels and rim brakes. I don't even want to bother because of the terrible braking performance. I've had rim brakes on normal aluminum wheels and have been running rim brakes with Mavic Exalith wheels for a couple years now. It was the only way to get aero wheels and keep decent braking performance on my existing SL4 Tarmac.

    I've since bought a CX bike that had cable disc brakes and it's so much better than rim brakes. Better initial bite, more power, easier on the hands, etc. Then I bought a hydro disc CX bike and its even more of a performance gain. In a panic stop, I can modulate the braking so much better to prevent lock-up. And they work perfectly when it's wet out or I'm riding in gravel and mud.

    I don't live in the mountains, but there are a lot of short steep hills around me and a lot of traffic. I can get going really fast and have to stop very quickly to avoid idiots in cars, or at intersections at the bottom of hills. We have weather and sometimes I need to stop when it's wet out. And I have done a ride where we were descending mountain switchbacks in the rain and it was terrifying, even with Exalith rim brakes.

    You might as well keep asking people why they buy a carbon bike when they can have aluminum at the same weight for less money.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    In fairness to the spacers.. the shop is not going to cut anything till its sold.
    True. I guess I'm just worried my fit would make the spacers necessary, and the bike looks terrible with anything but a slammed stem.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    True. I guess I'm just worried my fit would make the spacers necessary, and the bike looks terrible with anything but a slammed stem.
    It's been awhile but there was an online fit tool and you could see how many spacers you would need and size frame etc etc
    PO is a liberal echo chamber.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    Clearly they design the rim brake bike because lots of pros don't want discs and lots of amateurs don't want it either. Doesn't matter to me what others ride. You can tell me rim brakes are equal to discs until you are blue in the face, but I'll never agree with you.

    All of the above. The only braking setup I haven't had is carbon wheels and rim brakes. I don't even want to bother because of the terrible braking performance. I've had rim brakes on normal aluminum wheels and have been running rim brakes with Mavic Exalith wheels for a couple years now. It was the only way to get aero wheels and keep decent braking performance on my existing SL4 Tarmac.

    I've since bought a CX bike that had cable disc brakes and it's so much better than rim brakes. Better initial bite, more power, easier on the hands, etc. Then I bought a hydro disc CX bike and its even more of a performance gain. In a panic stop, I can modulate the braking so much better to prevent lock-up. And they work perfectly when it's wet out or I'm riding in gravel and mud.

    I don't live in the mountains, but there are a lot of short steep hills around me and a lot of traffic. I can get going really fast and have to stop very quickly to avoid idiots in cars, or at intersections at the bottom of hills. We have weather and sometimes I need to stop when it's wet out. And I have done a ride where we were descending mountain switchbacks in the rain and it was terrifying, even with Exalith rim brakes.

    You might as well keep asking people why they buy a carbon bike when they can have aluminum at the same weight for less money.
    Except your wacky last sentence of conflation, I say fair enough to what you wrote.
    I do agree disc brake bikes stop better...the ones I have owned. Its all about cost/benefit and maintenance has not only a dollar cost but a time cost. Disc brakes are more fiddly than caliper brakes...or perhaps you haven't noticed.

    Was interested in your perspective and you shared it and thanks for that. I don't ride much in the rain. My training wheels are aluminum. Shimano dual pivot brakes can lock either wheel up all day long. I am more about going than stopping and my bike has always stopped fine. Caliper brakes are not created equal by a long shot.
    But I do agree with you that disc brakes stop better all said. A matter of degree. The best riders in the world still ride caliper brakes through the toughest conditions imaginable including high mph descents even in the rain amateurs wouldn't attempt because we don't have to. Works for them.

    As to the future of disc brakes on road bikes in racing, a good subject. Until guards are added to cover the sharp edge, I believe the debate will wage on..and of course guards subtract aerodynamics and add weight...both the enemy of disc already.

    We will see.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    It's been awhile but there was an online fit tool and you could see how many spacers you would need and size frame etc etc
    On line fit tool to determine no. of spacers is pretty laughable all said. Most bikes look bad with a lot of spacers. The VIAS just happens to look worse because of eccentric shape for cable routing and doesn't help that the stem on the VIAS is the ugliest in the industry but better of course slammed. :-)

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    Clearly they design the rim brake bike because lots of pros don't want discs and lots of amateurs don't want it either. Doesn't matter to me what others ride. You can tell me rim brakes are equal to discs until you are blue in the face, but I'll never agree with you.

    All of the above. The only braking setup I haven't had is carbon wheels and rim brakes. I don't even want to bother because of the terrible braking performance. I've had rim brakes on normal aluminum wheels and have been running rim brakes with Mavic Exalith wheels for a couple years now. It was the only way to get aero wheels and keep decent braking performance on my existing SL4 Tarmac.

    I've since bought a CX bike that had cable disc brakes and it's so much better than rim brakes. Better initial bite, more power, easier on the hands, etc. Then I bought a hydro disc CX bike and its even more of a performance gain. In a panic stop, I can modulate the braking so much better to prevent lock-up. And they work perfectly when it's wet out or I'm riding in gravel and mud.

    I don't live in the mountains, but there are a lot of short steep hills around me and a lot of traffic. I can get going really fast and have to stop very quickly to avoid idiots in cars, or at intersections at the bottom of hills. We have weather and sometimes I need to stop when it's wet out. And I have done a ride where we were descending mountain switchbacks in the rain and it was terrifying, even with Exalith rim brakes.

    You might as well keep asking people why they buy a carbon bike when they can have aluminum at the same weight for less money.
    The man speaketh the truth IMO. It's not for all people in all circumstances, but they add value value for a number of us. Most of us do not have pro contracts or the bike handling skills that pros do, so that argument hasn't deterred me. I have only tried them on test rides thus far, but I really like them. I personally don't see much of a downside unless you are trying to build a super light bike and even then it seems like BMC has been able to address that issue to some degree, so the pros outweigh the cons for me. Different strokes for different folks though.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    On line fit tool to determine no. of spacers is pretty laughable all said. Most bikes look bad with a lot of spacers. The VIAS just happens to look worse because of eccentric shape for cable routing and doesn't help that the stem on the VIAS is the ugliest in the industry but better of course slammed. :-)
    Did you try it.. I remember it being based off your current bike measurements . So maybe not completely laughable

    I agree the bike looks better slammed and I'll add straight bars instead of the riser.
    PO is a liberal echo chamber.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    Did you try it.. I remember it being based off your current bike measurements . So maybe not completely laughable

    I agree the bike looks better slammed and I'll add straight bars instead of the riser.
    Excuse me...my bad. Didn't know it was based upon current bike sizing.

    On a whimsical note, more than 1/2 the riders on the road have bad fit...so it follows that if new fit is based upon past fit, not the best result.

    My thought is if one throws down 8 grand for a new bike, a $200 fit isn't out of line. :-)

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