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Thread: 2018 Tarmac

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    The man speaketh the truth IMO. It's not for all people in all circumstances, but they add value value for a number of us. Most of us do not have pro contracts or the bike handling skills that pros do, so that argument hasn't deterred me. I have only tried them on test rides thus far, but I really like them. I personally don't see much of a downside unless you are trying to build a super light bike and even then it seems like BMC has been able to address that issue to some degree, so the pros outweigh the cons for me. Different strokes for different folks though.
    you haven't got the memo about maintenance, adjustment with wheel changes etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Excuse me...my bad. Didn't know it was based upon current bike sizing.

    On a whimsical note, more than 1/2 the riders on the road have bad fit...so it follows that if new fit is based upon past fit, not the best result.

    My thought is if one throws down 8 grand for a new bike, a $200 fit isn't out of line. :-)
    Agreed on that last point

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    True. I guess I'm just worried my fit would make the spacers necessary, and the bike looks terrible with anything but a slammed stem.
    Agreed. Imo, unless the stem is slammed or just about completely slammed on this Vias, it just looks aesthetically unpleasing.


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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
    True. I guess I'm just worried my fit would make the spacers necessary, and the bike looks terrible with anything but a slammed stem.
    A problem if constantly under scrutiny by the fashion police. To me, being beholden to this standard shouldn't be the priority. I see too many riding slammed set ups that never use the drops. If you don't ride slammed and aero, it could be argued that the Venge VIAS isn't for you...or maybe it does help the average guy on some level.

    Throwing the stock stem in the bin and going conventional stem and reaping the other benefits of the bike makes sense. Me...I move my set up around a bit so the VIAS wouldn't be my bike of choice but I like the Madone more anyway.

    But I have ridden the VIAS and I liked it and it is a fast bike without a doubt and I liked the ride of it as well and handling. And...I liked the slab sidedness of the bike...a cool looking bike...but the stem and spacer stack has to be the ugliest in the industry though no doubt saves 0.1 watts at 35 mph ;-)

  5. #55
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    Will the seat stays fall off the bike? ;-) Superficially seems same design as some of the failed Venge VIAS.

    In general, I am hating all this proprietary crap on newer bikes, as well as the fad for matte/flat black on the high end framesets.

    Even on bikes that have a splash of color, the bulk of bike is often flat black. Fortunately, at least Trek & BMC are not jumping on the flat black fad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_h View Post
    Will the seat stays fall off the bike? ;-) Superficially seems same design as some of the failed Venge VIAS.

    In general, I am hating all this proprietary crap on newer bikes, as well as the fad for matte/flat black on the high end framesets.

    Even on bikes that have a splash of color, the bulk of bike is often flat black. Fortunately, at least Trek & BMC are not jumping on the flat black fad.
    The Vias issues were unrelated to the design, construction or attachment method for the seat stays... it was strictly a problem with the dropouts allowing rear wheels to pop out of drops and torque sideways hard enough to rip the stays off. Seen no reports of the stays failing on their own.
    These on the tarmac are surely more study than the current ones, at least if they are engineered to a standard similar to Venge.

  7. #57
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    I'm constantly surprised how many cyclists shape their perspective of a bike based on how they think it looks. I'm sure the cyclists of 100 years ago would look at all our bikes today and think they look horrible. I tend to think about bikes in terms of performance & ride quality based on what the bike is designed to do well. The Venge VIAS has an advertised focus around aero and speed. In that vein, I think it performs well - certainly well enough to win races and not just for the pros. In my experience it's a very fast bike, which is hard to explain until you've held 28mph for 5-10 miles where you can almost feel the aerodynamics working for you. Is the "Venge look" ugly or cool?? That's in the eye of the beholder but I can tell you, that is the look of fast!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkized View Post
    I'm constantly surprised how many cyclists shape their perspective of a bike based on how they think it looks. I'm sure the cyclists of 100 years ago would look at all our bikes today and think they look horrible. I tend to think about bikes in terms of performance & ride quality based on what the bike is designed to do well. The Venge VIAS has an advertised focus around aero and speed. In that vein, I think it performs well - certainly well enough to win races and not just for the pros. In my experience it's a very fast bike, which is hard to explain until you've held 28mph for 5-10 miles where you can almost feel the aerodynamics working for you. Is the "Venge look" ugly or cool?? That's in the eye of the beholder but I can tell you, that is the look of fast!
    It's like cars or motorcycles, people just aren't going to typically spend this kind of money on something they think is ugly. This is especially true when good looking options are similarly priced or cheaper. Most of us like to look good while riding and want equipment that looks good too. It is what it is.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumper8888 View Post
    This is an unusually sane thread. Specialized could have used you guys for a focus group. Can't anyone weigh in with something angry or ignorant? Geez, doesn't even feel like the internet.
    LOL!! Just reading this whole thread and WOW!!

    Sorry people, I'm new here and clearly a Specialized fan but really, what's with all the Specialized bashing?!? Maybe there's a history here I'm not aware of?

    - Problems with the one bolt seat post?? Seriously, I've had a dozen Specialized bikes with this design and never had a problem with one, on road or MTB.

    - Proprietary design?? Like what, the seat post?? Even on the Venge VAIS disc it's just the seat post.

    - Crappy hidden seat post clamp?? Really?? Who had problems with this??

    - Lack luster re-design?? So you're judging years worth of work by countless engineers based solely on some spy photos? Suppose the frame is Fact 12R carbon with graphene and is super light while still strong and stiff? I'd leave some room for the possibility that this bike could be awesome. Why? Well, they do have a track record.

  10. #60
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    Moreover, the Venge is not alone in providing that level of aerodynamics. Some tests have indicated that it's not even the most aero road bike out there.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  11. #61
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    Agreed on all accounts.

    The Venge is certainly very aero and I'm sure Specialized will upsell the aero efficiencies of the new Tarmac. That said, once you get to a certain point, you'd really need to be an aerodynamicist with some very sophisticated gear to test and measure aerodynamics and compare against another bike.

    From a rider perspective, I can definitely experience the aero difference between my Tarmac and my Venge VIAS but that may not be true for everyone. Truthfully, I'm not convinced even a pro could quantify the aero differences between the best aero bikes. So when it comes down to which bikes we buy, other factors are also important like weight, ride quality, cost, and yes looks I suppose.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I sort of consider myself a platform guy. That is, I invest in a cycling platform that adds more value to each bike on the platform. Right now, that platform is Specialized / Shimano / Castelli. I'm not blind to the other great bikes & gear out there but for the time being, I'm pretty happy with my platform. So when I'm deciding on a new bike, the Specialized platform already has value for me.

    Just my $0.02

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkized View Post
    Agreed on all accounts.

    The Venge is certainly very aero and I'm sure Specialized will upsell the aero efficiencies of the new Tarmac. That said, once you get to a certain point, you'd really need to be an aerodynamicist with some very sophisticated gear to test and measure aerodynamics and compare against another bike.

    From a rider perspective, I can definitely experience the aero difference between my Tarmac and my Venge VIAS but that may not be true for everyone. Truthfully, I'm not convinced even a pro could quantify the aero differences between the best aero bikes. So when it comes down to which bikes we buy, other factors are also important like weight, ride quality, cost, and yes looks I suppose.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I sort of consider myself a platform guy. That is, I invest in a cycling platform that adds more value to each bike on the platform. Right now, that platform is Specialized / Shimano / Castelli. I'm not blind to the other great bikes & gear out there but for the time being, I'm pretty happy with my platform. So when I'm deciding on a new bike, the Specialized platform already has value for me.

    Just my $0.02
    Lots of people have their favorite bike brands and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Specialized is as legitimate a favorite as any. That being said, I tend to shop for best overall value and try to avoid brand loyalty on most products as much as possible. I am currently building up a Ridley after having a Felt, Cervelo, Specialized, Focus, Cannondale, Specialized kind of run. I feel fairly comfortable saying that there isn't a huge performance difference between brands once you control for having a similar carbon layup and components. I mostly learned that during the ridiculous number of test rides I have been fortunate to enjoy. Get what you like, to each his own and all. I just recommend that you don't go too far in thinking it is somehow inherently better than what someone else is riding because of the brand name on it. I think that part is mostly fiction.
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 06-09-2017 at 12:25 PM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

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    Duplicate
    Last edited by Rashadabd; 06-09-2017 at 12:36 PM.
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

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    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkized View Post
    Agreed on all accounts.

    The Venge is certainly very aero and I'm sure Specialized will upsell the aero efficiencies of the new Tarmac. That said, once you get to a certain point, you'd really need to be an aerodynamicist with some very sophisticated gear to test and measure aerodynamics and compare against another bike.

    From a rider perspective, I can definitely experience the aero difference between my Tarmac and my Venge VIAS but that may not be true for everyone. Truthfully, I'm not convinced even a pro could quantify the aero differences between the best aero bikes. So when it comes down to which bikes we buy, other factors are also important like weight, ride quality, cost, and yes looks I suppose.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I sort of consider myself a platform guy. That is, I invest in a cycling platform that adds more value to each bike on the platform. Right now, that platform is Specialized / Shimano / Castelli. I'm not blind to the other great bikes & gear out there but for the time being, I'm pretty happy with my platform. So when I'm deciding on a new bike, the Specialized platform already has value for me.

    Just my $0.02
    Curious if you believe your VIAS is a faster bike for certain types of riding?...compared to Tarmac?. Are you a racer? Is so, what CAT level? What speeds do you normally paceline at?
    Do you ride the same wheelset on both Tarmac and VIAS?

    Nobody knows better than the guy that owns both bikes so curious what your observations are....Thanks.

    Lastly, I am baffled by the following comment you made, "That is, I invest in a cycling platform that adds more value to each bike on the platform."

    Can you embellish upon this a bit? What does is mean to add value, aka cost/benefit to each bike on a given platform? Define platform if you would please. I am trying to understand your distillation of value relative to a given bike, component and how this relates to your concept of platform.
    Last edited by 11spd; 06-09-2017 at 01:37 PM.

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    Exactly! Thanks for posting the links.

  17. #67
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    To say the Venge VIAS is faster is a bit misleading. The question is faster under what conditions? In that sense, it takes less energy to sustain higher speeds on the Venge VIAS than the Tarmac. This is more than just numbers, you can really experience this on the ride. As stated previously, at speeds over 25MPH these aero benefits become dramatically more apparent.

    So then how do you get to speeds over 25MPH? You could just point the bike down a steep hill and you will certainly experience these aero advantages. Conversely, if you point the bike up a steep hill, even as a strong rider, these benefits are less differential. Indeed, the extra weight of the Venge might make it slower than the Tarmac up steep technical terrain.

    As for myself, I am NOT a racer, nor do I ride in a paceline. I'm an enthusiast solo rider who likes to go fast over distance. At 300W over undulating (not steep technical) terrain, the Venge is very fast. Places where I average 24MPH on my Tarmac I can average 28MPH or more on the Venge. Also, head winds are a bummer but not as soul crushing as they are on the Tarmac. The challenge on the Venge is to climb as well vs. the Tarmac and I love to climb hills. Here, the Tarmac is definitely faster though the difference isn't as pronounced as I had feared it would be. So right now, I'm noodling on what I can do to make my Venge climb better since it crushes the flats already.

    I am running the CLX64s on the Venge vs. the CLX40s on the Tarmac and they are both disc bikes. They are also both sporting the S-Works Aerofly bars and Di2.

    As to my comments about platform. Investing in several bikes from the same brand breeds cross compatibility and uniformity of many components. This is especially true of Specialized because they make a lot more than just the frame. Wheels, seatposts, stems, bars, cranksets, chainrings, powermeters, seats etc. are uniform and compatible across most of the bikes I own. It also buys me a lot of good will from my local Specialized dealer who's support has improved my overall cycling experience immensely. Not saying that everyone should do it this way, just that it's been of value to me. I will say, it pays to buy a bike that is supported locally by a strong dealer network and Specialized has been great for that. I've been cycling across the US and even a few international destinations and the ubiquity of the Specialized brand is awesome. Especially when traveling with your bike, as often do.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom_h View Post
    Fortunately, at least Trek & BMC are not jumping on the flat black fad.
    I'll just leave this here...



  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkized View Post
    To say the Venge VIAS is faster is a bit misleading. The question is faster under what conditions? In that sense, it takes less energy to sustain higher speeds on the Venge VIAS than the Tarmac. This is more than just numbers, you can really experience this on the ride. As stated previously, at speeds over 25MPH these aero benefits become dramatically more apparent.

    So then how do you get to speeds over 25MPH? You could just point the bike down a steep hill and you will certainly experience these aero advantages. Conversely, if you point the bike up a steep hill, even as a strong rider, these benefits are less differential. Indeed, the extra weight of the Venge might make it slower than the Tarmac up steep technical terrain.

    As for myself, I am NOT a racer, nor do I ride in a paceline. I'm an enthusiast solo rider who likes to go fast over distance. At 300W over undulating (not steep technical) terrain, the Venge is very fast. Places where I average 24MPH on my Tarmac I can average 28MPH or more on the Venge. Also, head winds are a bummer but not as soul crushing as they are on the Tarmac. The challenge on the Venge is to climb as well vs. the Tarmac and I love to climb hills. Here, the Tarmac is definitely faster though the difference isn't as pronounced as I had feared it would be. So right now, I'm noodling on what I can do to make my Venge climb better since it crushes the flats already.

    I am running the CLX64s on the Venge vs. the CLX40s on the Tarmac and they are both disc bikes. They are also both sporting the S-Works Aerofly bars and Di2.

    As to my comments about platform. Investing in several bikes from the same brand breeds cross compatibility and uniformity of many components. This is especially true of Specialized because they make a lot more than just the frame. Wheels, seatposts, stems, bars, cranksets, chainrings, powermeters, seats etc. are uniform and compatible across most of the bikes I own. It also buys me a lot of good will from my local Specialized dealer who's support has improved my overall cycling experience immensely. Not saying that everyone should do it this way, just that it's been of value to me. I will say, it pays to buy a bike that is supported locally by a strong dealer network and Specialized has been great for that. I've been cycling across the US and even a few international destinations and the ubiquity of the Specialized brand is awesome. Especially when traveling with your bike, as often do.
    You and I believe in a very different truth. First...I believe its ridiculous to say that the Venge at 28 mph has the equivalent drag as a Tarmac at 24 mph. That is preposterous unless you have a sail connected to the Tarmac and riding into a head wind. With equivalent wheels and riding position the difference between the two bikes at 28 mph is probably less than 1 mph if that...again, based upon windage.

    Also, as I suspected you are conflating usage of the term platform with brand. Platform is a given type of product or subassembly. A groupset is a platform...say electric versus mechanical shifting. Braking is a platform...rim versus disk. Even bikes are a platform in terms of genre...road bike versus mtb is an example. You are using the term platform synonomous with brand.

    That said and a bit more comedy....I even disagree with you sticking with a brand for economy or value derived. There is very little in fact as most bikes use exclusive parts and when they don't, brand has nothing to do with it. Providing spacing is correct for example, disk wheels on a BMC will fit a Tarmac or a Madone. How much cross compatibility is there in groupset? Most groupsets can be installed on any bike.
    You can't put a Venge VIAS stem or seat post on a Tarmac. A Specialized saddle will fit on a Giant. Most cranks...or at least many can be used on different bikes with the right BB conversion, independent of BB shell width. So brand has little to do with value added or cross compatibility as you put it.

    Aside from that, you said everything correctly. ...joking with you.

    In any event you own two nice bikes, enjoy them and ride safe.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkized View Post
    To say the Venge VIAS is faster is a bit misleading. The question is faster under what conditions? In that sense, it takes less energy to sustain higher speeds on the Venge VIAS than the Tarmac. This is more than just numbers, you can really experience this on the ride. As stated previously, at speeds over 25MPH these aero benefits become dramatically more apparent.

    So then how do you get to speeds over 25MPH? You could just point the bike down a steep hill and you will certainly experience these aero advantages. Conversely, if you point the bike up a steep hill, even as a strong rider, these benefits are less differential. Indeed, the extra weight of the Venge might make it slower than the Tarmac up steep technical terrain.

    As for myself, I am NOT a racer, nor do I ride in a paceline. I'm an enthusiast solo rider who likes to go fast over distance. At 300W over undulating (not steep technical) terrain, the Venge is very fast. Places where I average 24MPH on my Tarmac I can average 28MPH or more on the Venge. Also, head winds are a bummer but not as soul crushing as they are on the Tarmac. The challenge on the Venge is to climb as well vs. the Tarmac and I love to climb hills. Here, the Tarmac is definitely faster though the difference isn't as pronounced as I had feared it would be. So right now, I'm noodling on what I can do to make my Venge climb better since it crushes the flats already.

    I am running the CLX64s on the Venge vs. the CLX40s on the Tarmac and they are both disc bikes. They are also both sporting the S-Works Aerofly bars and Di2.

    As to my comments about platform. Investing in several bikes from the same brand breeds cross compatibility and uniformity of many components. This is especially true of Specialized because they make a lot more than just the frame. Wheels, seatposts, stems, bars, cranksets, chainrings, powermeters, seats etc. are uniform and compatible across most of the bikes I own. It also buys me a lot of good will from my local Specialized dealer who's support has improved my overall cycling experience immensely. Not saying that everyone should do it this way, just that it's been of value to me. I will say, it pays to buy a bike that is supported locally by a strong dealer network and Specialized has been great for that. I've been cycling across the US and even a few international destinations and the ubiquity of the Specialized brand is awesome. Especially when traveling with your bike, as often do.
    I'll say this: if you can average 28mph over rolling terrain by yourself for any kind of sustained distance, you may not race but you ought to.

    As for this thread, I almost never check in on Specialized because of lack of interest, but MAN have I been missing some fun.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    You and I believe in a very different truth. First...I believe its ridiculous to say that the Venge at 28 mph has the equivalent drag as a Tarmac at 24 mph. That is preposterous unless you have a sail connected to the Tarmac and riding into a head wind. With equivalent wheels and riding position the difference between the two bikes at 28 mph is probably less than 1 mph if that...again, based upon windage.

    Also, as I suspected you are conflating usage of the term platform with brand. Platform is a given type of product or subassembly. A groupset is a platform...say electric versus mechanical shifting. Braking is a platform...rim versus disk. Even bikes are a platform in terms of genre...road bike versus mtb is an example. You are using the term platform synonomous with brand.

    That said and a bit more comedy....I even disagree with you sticking with a brand for economy or value derived. There is very little in fact as most bikes use exclusive parts and when they don't, brand has nothing to do with it. Providing spacing is correct for example, disk wheels on a BMC will fit a Tarmac or a Madone. How much cross compatibility is there in groupset? Most groupsets can be installed on any bike.
    You can't put a Venge VIAS stem or seat post on a Tarmac. A Specialized saddle will fit on a Giant. Most cranks...or at least many can be used on different bikes with the right BB conversion, independent of BB shell width. So brand has little to do with value added or cross compatibility as you put it.

    Aside from that, you said everything correctly. ...joking with you.

    In any event you own two nice bikes, enjoy them and ride safe.
    Just speaking from my own experience on the Tarmac vs. the Venge at speed. While I have about 4000 miles on my Tarmac I only have about 500 on the Venge so there's still more to learn here. Perhaps my enthusiasm for the Venge inspires me to pedal harder, or the fit leverages muscles differently? In any case, I'm faster over rolling terrain on the Venge, our world of cycling tech has clearly documented that. Your results may vary.

    As to "platform", yes I think brand factors into the equation. So when I say I run Shimano Di2 disc as a platform vs. say, mechanical rim brake SRAM, brand makes a difference. But most of all, brand matters to me, regardless of what others might think. Could I put my Specialized S-Works cranks on a BMC frame? Probably, but I would never do that because it doesn't feel quite right to me. Would I swap cranksets between my Venge, my Tarmac, my Crux, or my Roubaix? Of course, and my comfort in doing so I partially related to the brand identity.

    In reality, the value of any brand per se, is highly individual and is as much perception as reality. Which accounts for why two different people can have vastly different perceptions of any particular brand value. The Specialized brand offers me a lot of value (dealer support, manufacturer support, culture, relationship, etc.). I've had the good fortune of spontaneously running into Mike Sinyard on two separate occasions and having very nice conversations with him. I also have tremendous respect for a business someone built up from scratch to become what Specialized is today. Do these perceptions and experiences shape my perspective of the brand? You bet they do! Again, your results / experience / perceptions might vary.

    Lastly, is this. My perspective does not require anyone's approval or acceptance nor does it condemn anyone else's perspective. I do not mean to imply that my approach is the best approach for anyone else, it's simply mine and I'm happy about it so I share. I encourage everyone to experiment and find an approach that makes them happy as well.

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    You want fun? Go to the classics forum and watch that thread on quick release vs thru axle.

    Why quick release is a vastly superior design to thru-axle.

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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialkized View Post
    Just speaking from my own experience on the Tarmac vs. the Venge at speed. While I have about 4000 miles on my Tarmac I only have about 500 on the Venge so there's still more to learn here. Perhaps my enthusiasm for the Venge inspires me to pedal harder, or the fit leverages muscles differently? In any case, I'm faster over rolling terrain on the Venge, our world of cycling tech has clearly documented that. Your results may vary.

    As to "platform", yes I think brand factors into the equation. So when I say I run Shimano Di2 disc as a platform vs. say, mechanical rim brake SRAM, brand makes a difference. But most of all, brand matters to me, regardless of what others might think. Could I put my Specialized S-Works cranks on a BMC frame? Probably, but I would never do that because it doesn't feel quite right to me. Would I swap cranksets between my Venge, my Tarmac, my Crux, or my Roubaix? Of course, and my comfort in doing so I partially related to the brand identity.

    In reality, the value of any brand per se, is highly individual and is as much perception as reality. Which accounts for why two different people can have vastly different perceptions of any particular brand value. The Specialized brand offers me a lot of value (dealer support, manufacturer support, culture, relationship, etc.). I've had the good fortune of spontaneously running into Mike Sinyard on two separate occasions and having very nice conversations with him. I also have tremendous respect for a business someone built up from scratch to become what Specialized is today. Do these perceptions and experiences shape my perspective of the brand? You bet they do! Again, your results / experience / perceptions might vary.

    Lastly, is this. My perspective does not require anyone's approval or acceptance nor does it condemn anyone else's perspective. I do not mean to imply that my approach is the best approach for anyone else, it's simply mine and I'm happy about it so I share. I encourage everyone to experiment and find an approach that makes them happy as well.
    Your last point first. Of course each of us are free to express what we believe in this case about the brand of Specialized...what the forum is for. But to me your conflation of brand and platform is oddly co-mingled...I honestly don't see any point to interjecting the concept of value when you speak of platform...or economies of sticking with a given platform. I have been at this for decades FWIW.

    The last point. I can't tell you how common it is for a guy like yourself to say there is 4 mph differential in speed for the same watt expenditure say between an aero bike versus more conventional tube shape. It is utter nonsense. Placebo at its worse. So sorry to call you out and like yourself are free to post what you believe, so are others who may disagree. Perhaps we can agree Specialized makes great bikes. I sure believe this. Are they better than Giant, Cannondale, Trek, BMC, Cervelo and a host of others? Not in my experience. A CAT 2 on a $1K CAAD12 will dust a CAT 3 on 'any' $10K bike. Picking a bike for most is more akin to a beauty contest more than any bonafide technical advantage. That is of course my opinion and you are welcome to disagree of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vic bastige View Post
    I'll say this: if you can average 28mph over rolling terrain by yourself for any kind of sustained distance, you may not race but you ought to.

    As for this thread, I almost never check in on Specialized because of lack of interest, but MAN have I been missing some fun.
    Ha! OK, so playing word games here. I had meant that in particular places where I would, on average, be traveling at 24MPH on my Tarmac, I find my self, on average, managing 28MPH on my Venge.

    Agreed, pulling 28MPH solo over any sustained distance is herculean. My best is something like 27MPH for like a mile or so, in the flat with no wind, before I start to blow up!

  25. #75
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    So then what do you think accounts for the difference in speeds / times of a typical road race bike like a Tarmac and a TT bike like the Shiv? The same riders are clearly much slower for the same watts on the less aero configuration, no?

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