SL4 Pro frame OSBB and campy ultra torque crank

[vaetuning]

[QUOTE=ukbloke;3731812]I think that they are compliant to PF30 in all aspects.

Hi UKbloke

Sadly the Campy PF30 adapters, do not compensate for the lack of width of the OSBB 46mm frames in the BB area.

And they do NOT insert / press enough into the frames BB, in order to make it possible to shim them outwards!! - they would simply fall out / be pushed out by the torque!!
This also happens when using the bb30 pressfit cups and Delrin rings!!

Been there - done that!!

Yours respectfully

Mads

[vaetuning]

Originally Posted by PJ352

I believe this is the guide you're referring to..
http://service.specialized.com/colla...om-Bracket.pdf

You're correct - thanks!!

Yours respectfully

Mads

[vaetuning]

Originally Posted by CJN

I have a Specialized Venge and have installed a 2011 Campy Super Record crank set by using the specialized BB cups that came with the frame and installing the 42 mm Campy bearings inside those cups. I have 900 miles on the bike and it works perfectly. The 46mm UltraTorque bearings will NOT work.

Hi CJN

I'm sad to tell you, that your istallation of your beautifull crankset is not correct - and leaves much to be desired in stiffness!! - If your frame is a 46mm OSBB i.e.

If you align one of your crankarms with the seat tube, and put your fingers around the end of the crankarm, and then use your thumb to push against the seat tube, you'll feel the arms giving in to the force - that is the problem we are trying to address here!!

Yours respectfully

Mads

[vaetuning]

Hi All

So I finally got home - sorry ´bout the crappy pictures, but it was getting darkish outside - that time of year!!

Sadly, for anybody interested, there is not much to be seen of my solution, but luckily it works very well!!

Bike weighs 6.58kg as shown on the pictures.

Very happy with it - she is my precious!! Next after my wife - of course...ahemm!!

Yours Respectfully

Mads

[roadworthy]

Originally Posted by tommyturbo

The real disappointment is that Specialized, one of the largest and best bicycle companies, didn't work to ensure that their new frames were compatible with all major manufacturer components available (Shimano/Sram/Campagnolo). This could have been accomplished by offering a threaded BB option for the SL4 Tarmacs. Or Specialized could have done a little advance thinking and planning about a solution as to how their OSBB frames would integrate with Campy cranks.

Before I decided to go with the S-Works Tarmac SL3 in lieu of getting the new SL4, I had several conversations with Specialized people (I posted an email from one of them early in this thread). It was very obvious that they had not done their homework and had no idea as to how Campy cranks could be made to work with the frames. Rather than risk a botch job and/or warranty issues, I went with the threaded BB of the SL3.

For me, the issue is not whether one crank is better than another, and many people (myself included) are not interested in tossing the crank they prefer to use. Some people will swap the crank, and others will simply buy a frame from another company that will work with their existing components.

Clearly Specialized wants to make the path of least resistance to use their OEM crank. I have no problem with this, but I think Specialized is missing the boat by not making sure that their frames are cross compatible with other cranks.

You and I may not like it Tom...but reality is...Specialized did what they did for profit....to promote using their cranks. Their cranks btw are excellent but personally I don't like the aesthetic of them. To me a crank and even Campy components is in no small part due to the beauty they bring. Campy cranks are beautiful with excellent function as you know and why we like 'em. This isn't the first time Specialized or other companies have done something like this nor will be the last.
At least Specialized isn't Cervelo with failing quality and the company being taken over with an unknown future. Thank goodness for that.
That said, my purchase of the new Roubaix SL3 Pro with threaded BB was in part based upon being able to use my Campy cranks...but may have bought it anyway if it were BB30. I still prefer Campy cranks like you and also prefer a threaded BB on its own merit.
The bike btw is outstanding. A shame like you say the SL4 Pro isn't offered as a threaded BB...but something to consider is...unlike the PF-30 Sworks bikes, you can insert the SL4 Pro below as it is BB30 with 42mm ID press bores and your nice Record crank would be plug and p;lay with no worries about adapters prying out or squeaking....a good option if you want the SL4 which is a whale of a race bike.
Cheers.

[roadworthy]

[QUOTE=vaetuning;3732222]

Originally Posted by roadworthy

All I have to say Mads is...you sure must of wanted to run a Campy crankset awful bad on the bike. I sure wouldn't. I appreciate your creativity...as I am an engineer...

Hi Roadworthy

Well...I guess I'm just one of those guys that can't take a no for an answer!!

Whenever I get something into my head, and people tell me it can't be done - I just have to prove them wrong!!

Nevertheless - I do hear your arguments concerning the allready usable cranksets, but I'm just so happy 'bout the way and speed of the shifting on the new 11 speed cranks - easily the fastest on the market right now I believe!! Way faster and more accurate than the first generation of 11 speed!!

And the looks - ooh, don't get me started - stunning!!

Ohh, and by the way - The Super Record Ti cranks are plenty light and stiff, if you ask me...!!

Furthermore I'm afraid that if I combine Campy stuff with Shimano or Sram I might combust instantaniously or get shot by an even more fanatic Campy fan than myself

And I agree with you; they have engineered the crank widht this way intentionally to make people buy their cranksets.

But nonetheless, I have just finished reading a german test on aftermarket cranks, and Specialized actually won, together with Cannondale.

Shifting, wear resistance and overall usability, was as god as Campy and Shimano - So....I might consider getting my hands on the S-works crankset afterall

I will post pictures of my Crank solution for your convenience later today!!

Yours respectfully

Mads

Well stated Mads and I hear you brother. Thanks for sharing your experience and talent with us. If you have a chance, please post the adapters you fabricated.
Kind Regards.

[ukbloke]

Originally Posted by roadworthy

A shame like you say the SL4 Pro isn't offered as a threaded BB...but something to consider is...unlike the PF-30 Sworks bikes, you can insert the SL4 Pro below as it is BB30 with 42mm ID press bores and your nice Record crank would be plug and p;lay with no worries about adapters prying out or squeaking....a good option if you want the SL4 which is a whale of a race bike.
Cheers.

Confused - I thought that the Tarmac SL4 Pro and the SWorks were both carbon shell OSBB and were PF30-compatible in dimensions. So I think that they are exactly the same in terms of crank compatibility and adapter options.

[tommyturbo]

I also was under the impression that the S-Works and SL4 Pro had the exact same BB setup.

I didn't want to sound fickle, but yes, indeed, I don't like the looks of the Specialized cranks. This is a personal thing, obviously, but I didn't want to swap my Super Record out for a Specialized crank.

No question Specialized wants to lock buyers into their cranks. As I said, I totally get that, but I am wondering if they will lose more buyers and revenue because of the frame/crank incompatibility issues than buyers they will pick up via proprietary crank sales.

For complete bike buyers, as long as you want to go with Shimano or Sram, you will get a great bike. For people who want to build a "custom" bike from the frame up, Specialized is making that a little more difficult these days.

[nis240sxt]

Originally Posted by tommyturbo

I also was under the impression that the S-Works and SL4 Pro had the exact same BB setup.

I just bought an SL4 Pro frameset and they do NOT come with the carbon shell (PF30) setup. It has a bonded metal insert and is the normal BB30 standard (bearings directly in bore w/circlips) as roadworthy mentioned. So yes, you can definitely use the SRAM adapter and campy cranks if you're willing to go with the Pro model. I believe last year's SL3 Pro also came with the BB30 standard. I chose to go with the SRAM S900/950 BB30 crankset since they are cheap, stiff, light and looks good (removable spider also) so there are excellent alternatives out there you just have to look.

[vaetuning]

Hi Roadworthy

I have actually posted the above pictures of the solution!!

All there's visible is the shiny aluminum collar underneath the BSA cups.

I'm not very keen on dissasembling the setup, as it works very well - "don't mess with something that works" - right??

But, imagine the shiny alu cups, protruding into the OSBB, so far from each side, that there's only, ´bout 6mm of free OSBB carbon tube visible inside the BB.

Works very well - stiff as ....!!

And there is NO binding of the BB bearings whatsoever - the 2 cups where machined to the exact same specs.

Yours Respectfully

Mads

[roadworthy]

Originally Posted by vaetuning

Hi Roadworthy

I have actually posted the above pictures of the solution!!

All there's visible is the shiny aluminum collar underneath the BSA cups.

I'm not very keen on dissasembling the setup, as it works very well - "don't mess with something that works" - right??

But, imagine the shiny alu cups, protruding into the OSBB, so far from each side, that there's only, ´bout 6mm of free OSBB carbon tube visible inside the BB.

Works very well - stiff as ....!!

And there is NO binding of the BB bearings whatsoever - the 2 cups where machined to the exact same specs.

Yours Respectfully

Mads

Sounds like you have a design background Mads. Well done. You should consider making a small run of them and selling them to Campy owners with PF30 Specialized framesets. Sounds like you created a BSA aka threaded interface for Campy threaded cups...that presses 'well inboard into the carbon 46mm I.D. through bore'. That's the magic and really why the Campy adapters even if they had the correct lateral width are a poor design. With your approach of each machined adapter pressing well into the shell on both sides, you have a much more secure solution.
Thanks for the explanation.
Cheers.

[roadworthy]

Ukbloke and others to clear up confusion...just as nis240sxt stated.

Here is a breakdown of BB's for the Roubaix and Tarmac for 2012. Forget Specialized nomenclature of calling all their integrated BB's OSBB...they can be different.

Roubaix Pro SL3: threaded aka BSA BB
Roubaix S-works: PF30

Tarmac Pro SL4: BB30
Tarmac Sworks SL4: PF30

Vae covered the issue with PF30 beautifully for Specialized framesets...lateral spacing is not conducive to running Campy cranks with 'PF30'.

If you are a Tarmac and Campy lover, get the Tarmac SL4 Pro. I will further say, not only do you save a grand by buying it over the Sworks, but even a pro would be hard pressed to feel any difference in performance. This is even true comparing the Tarmac SL3 and SL4 as discussed in the other thread....or the Roubaix Pro SL3 versus Roubaix Sworks.

Why will the Tarmac SL4 Pro work with Campy? You have two options. Unlike the Sworks PF30, BB30 lateral spacing is 68mm. That means for the Tarmac Pro, you can use Campy BB30 adapters. But personally I wouldn't because the press in interface of Campy's BB30 adapters isn't a very good engagement for having the bearings run outboard of the BB shell. This is why vae's solution is more elegant for PF30...way more lateral press engagement.

Below is a picture of a Tarmac SL4 Pro. It clearly has BB30. 'IF' you must run your Campy crankset with a Campy gruppo, then my opinion is the most elegant solution is the Sram press in BSA adapter which is rock solid unlike the Campy adapters which are two pieces trying to pull away from the BB shell on each side due to the lateral torsion of pedal forces.

For those that must have the finest and pay a hefty premium for a Sworks Tarmac...or Roubaix...both are PF30, as vae taught us, we are pretty much screwed if we run Campy. The box I am in is I love the aesthetic of Campy cranks...but to me it makes more sense to run a dedicated BB30 crank as nis and others do when having a bike with BB30 or PF30. Why not take advantage of lower weight and increased stiffness over the Campy cranks. Tradeoff would be purely aesthetic and there are some nice looking BB30 cranks out there though Specialized cranks don't float my boat.

PS: There is more if you want even further complexity, and this is response to ukbloke's comment in another thread about OSBB Roubaix Pro's popping up on the web.
In discussion ukbloke mentioned that he believed OSBB Roubaix Pros showing up on ebay which were clearly 2012 Roubaix Pro framesets were outliars from perhaps early production. Not so. As it turns out...there are 'two different' Roubaix SL3 Pro's for 2012...and this is how is works:
2012 Roubaix Pro SL3 frameset: threaded BB
2012 Roubaix Pro SL3 complete bike with DuraAce or Sram: BB30

The latter is what you see on the web. Complete Roubaix Pro SL3 framesets with OSBB parted out and sold as framesets. Why does Specialized offer both a threaded BB for their Roubaix Pro frameset and yet BB30 for their complete bicycle? Simple. Because Specialized cranks that come on the complete bike are incompatible with a threaded BB. The larger question is...why would Specialized go to the trouble of tooling a threaded BB for the Roubaix Pro frameset? Now that is a good question when Specialized makes the sister Tarmac SL4 Pro in BB30. I can only speculate and say, that Specialized knows that many that purchase the Roubaix Pro...like me...have their own groupset and prefer a threaded BB for commonality...which is true in my case. Plus, many Roubaix owners who buy the bike for distance riding, aren't big watt guys and any stiffness benefit of BB30 is indistinguishable which is also true in my case.
Last picture is of a Roubaix Pro with BB30. That frameset started life sold as a complete bike from Specialized with Specialized cranks.

[vaetuning]

[QUOTE=roadworthy;3733738]Sounds like you have a design background Mads. Well done. You should consider making a small run of them and selling them to Campy owners with PF30 Specialized framesets. Sounds like you created a BSA aka threaded interface for Campy threaded cups...

Hi Roadworthy

Yep - that is exactly what they are - an interface between BSA cups & OSBB!!

Sadly - I do not work in a machine shop!! So I had to buy my way in, to have those BSA / OSBB thingy's made - and I payed a hefty sum, to get the ones I have on my SL3 Roubaix!!

But hey - anybody with some skills should be able to get a pair made, at their prefferred machine shop.
Let me know and I'll give you some hints, as to how & what measurements!

And as I payed around the 250$ mark for mine, I'm sure that other can have them made cheaper than me!? (yes, I know - I'm borderline completely insane!! But the shop where I bought the frame, told me it was impossible to install the Campy UT crank in a safe way, and I just had to prove them wrong....Darn!!)

Yours Respectfully

Mads

[roadworthy]

[QUOTE=vaetuning;3733884]

Originally Posted by roadworthy

Sounds like you have a design background Mads. Well done. You should consider making a small run of them and selling them to Campy owners with PF30 Specialized framesets. Sounds like you created a BSA aka threaded interface for Campy threaded cups...

Hi Roadworthy

Yep - that is exactly what they are - an interface between BSA cups & OSBB!!

Sadly - I do not work in a machine shop!! So I had to buy my way in, to have those BSA / OSBB thingy's made - and I payed a hefty sum, to get the ones I have on my SL3 Roubaix!!

But hey - anybody with some skills should be able to get a pair made, at their prefferred machine shop.
Let me know and I'll give you some hints, as to how & what measurements!

And as I payed around the 250$ mark for mine, I'm sure that other can have them made cheaper than me!? (yes, I know - I'm borderline completely insane!! But the shop where I bought the frame, told me it was impossible to install the Campy UT crank in a safe way, and I just had to prove them wrong....Darn!!)

Yours Respectfully

Mads

Mads...you were just being greedy and had to have the Roubaix S-works.
As much as I would like to know the specs of your cool adapters, no need to provide details because I won't be fabbing anytime soon. ...I settled on the Roubaix Pro with threaded BB with Campy to avert having to do what you did. I wouldn't have gone there anyway...would have built with another crank if PF30...maybe even the Specialized cranks as they are very good. I think its great what you did however and I give you a lot of credit for doing what you did...and we share the same love for the Campy cranks...they are fantastic.
If you get a chance, post a pic of your Roubaix with Campy.
Kind Regards my talented friend.

[vaetuning]

[QUOTE=roadworthy;3733995]

Originally Posted by vaetuning

Mads...you were just being greedy and had to have the Roubaix S-works.
As much as I would like to know the specs of your cool adapters, no need to provide details because I won't be fabbing anytime soon. ...I settled on the Roubaix Pro with threaded BB with Campy to avert having to do what you did. I wouldn't have gone there anyway...would have built with another crank if PF30...maybe even the Specialized cranks as they are very good. I think its great what you did however and I give you a lot of credit for doing what you did...and we share the same love for the Campy cranks...they are fantastic.
If you get a chance, post a pic of your Roubaix with Campy.
Kind Regards my talented friend.

Hi Roadworthy

Thanks for the kind words!!

Concerning pictures of my Roubaix, it is actually mine, the red and white Roubaix S-works, with Lightweight Clinchers, earlier on this page - where I have also posted 2 pictures of my interface solution!?

I'll hit the sack now - it is almost midnight in Denmark now - good night, sleep tight and don´t let the....arrh, you all now how that one goes!!

Yours respectfully

Mads

[master539]

I just wanted to know, If there is no correct / usable solution for mounting the Campy cranks in 46mm OSBB Specialized frames as of yet ???
I have a brand new Specialized Venge and like to use my Campy cranks UT 11 please help.

best
539

[roadworthy]

Originally Posted by master539

I just wanted to know, If there is no correct / usable solution for mounting the Campy cranks in 46mm OSBB Specialized frames as of yet ???
I have a brand new Specialized Venge and like to use my Campy cranks UT 11 please help.

best
539

Per comments made by Mads, apparently no solution for you. If you have a new Campy crank in the box, before discarding it, I would send an email to Specialized technical department and ask them point blank. The reason is...Specialized makes running changes all the time and they may have a solution for you.
Otherwise to me...the frameset trumps what kind of cranks are used. Lots of great cranks on the market...but again unless running Specialized, I would tread carefully so you don't run into the same spacing issue with a BB30 crankset.

[tommyturbo]

The following from Lennard Zinn today on Velonews.com might shed a little more light on the differences between PF30 and BB30 (I didn't ask Lennard for permission; I hope he is OK with me posting this):

"As I said in the 2012 Velo Buyer’s Guide, which you should all have received in your mailboxes by now, adaptors are not always a perfect solution for press-fit bottom brackets. There are plenty of people out there who have had problems with creaking and movement of them. Press-fit bottom brackets have plastic sleeves surrounding the bearings that distort as needed if the bottom bracket shell internal diameter is not perfectly round and of the correct diameter.

Aluminum adaptors to fit 24mm-spindle cranks to PF30, BB86, BBRight PF, or BB386 EVO bottom bracket shells, however, are generally machined to tight tolerances and require correspondingly tight tolerances of the frame’s bottom bracket shell or they will move around and creak. But wait! The whole idea of press-fit bottom brackets, after all, is to fit into frames that are not made to exact tolerances so that they could be simply molded with cheap labor and not machined afterward. Now you see the problem. Adaptor problems are less common in BB30 frames, since they have metal bottom bracket shells machined after construction to fit the bearings and the snaprings."

[Navy boy]

To those who want to run campagnolo ultra torque cranks with new OSBB frames by specialized I've found the right adapter

They are made by c bear just search for the company

And c bear directed me to a Internet store cost 119 euro to buy

Search for h & s bike - discount

[kondre2000]

Originally Posted by Navy boy

To those who want to run campagnolo ultra torque cranks with new OSBB frames by specialized I've found the right adapter

They are made by c bear just search for the company

And c bear directed me to a Internet store cost 119 euro to buy

Search for h & s bike - discount

Well, at that price, for us US'ers, it would be better to just get the Specialized BB30 cranks.

[vaetuning]

Originally Posted by kondre2000

Well, at that price, for us US'ers, it would be better to just get the Specialized BB30 cranks.

Hi

Yeah, I hear you - I also thought it sounded a little steep for something which is mass produced...!!

But I got interested, and called up the company - talked to a guy named Bart, and he's been most helpfull / informative.

If I where to buy a set, it would set me back 129euro:

The price is for the adapter / sleeve together with ITA cups, ceramic bearings, and freight to Denmark - they use ITA, as it makes it easier to tighten their setup, when installed.

As the kit comes with a full ceramic BB, the price actually seem quite fair I think?!

Yours respectfully

Mads

[vaetuning]

Originally Posted by Navy boy

To those who want to run campagnolo ultra torque cranks with new OSBB frames by specialized I've found the right adapter


They are made by c bear just search for the company

And c bear directed me to a Internet store cost 119 euro to buy

Search for h & s bike - discount

Hi Navy boy

Nice find - I'm sure it will help a lot of people in distress over their OSBB frames and UT cranks!

Yours respectfully

Mads

[roadworthy]

Since we are surveying options here, I will give you mine.
- If I built up a SL4 Tarmac with BB30 and had to have Campy cranks, it would be with the Sram adapter period. Plug and play and cheap and relatively light or light enough.

- If I built up a Tarmac SL4 with BB30 and I am a Campy guy...I would run another BB30 crank designed for the frame. Allegience to Campy only runs so deep when it comes to their cranks which I run on my new Roubaix and they are outstanding but the point being...cranks are not the end all to building a bike and many great cranks out there.

- If building up a PF30 Sworks bike, I would not run Campy cranks period. I would likely run the Specialized crankset designed for the frame.

That is where I come down. Spending over 100 Euro for an adapter that doesn't need to exist seems absolutely silly to me but again, opinions are what make the world go round.
Cheers.

[Navy boy]

Thanks for the info I'll take photos when mine arrives . I think the price was great. The cranks cost over 1000 in Sydney , they have been sitting in their box.

[Bensamz]

Here is my 2012 Tarmac SL4 Pro with 2011 Campagnolo Chorus. I used the Campy adapter for the crank. I put 150 miles and 10 hours of hard group riding on it the last two days. No problems at all so far. No squeaking or creaking, the adapters have not rotated, no play in the crank. Rock solid overall. I hope it continues that way. I'll keep the thread updated.

The bike weighs 17.04 pounds as is with the Powertap Pro, around 15.25 with the 2011 Zipp 303's and Super Record cassette.