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  1. #201
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    I am a full-time bike mechanic in the Bay Area, CA. I have come up with several solutions to this issue, but I didn't want to post any info on it until I had ridden / tested them for a decent amount of time.

    First of all, the C-Bear solution is by far the best / most stiff solution. I currently have a kit on order from C-Bear; when it arrives, I will be posting an installation video and detailed pictures of the process.

    I don't have pictures at the moment, but I simply ordered the SRAM PF30 adapter kit, and started experimenting until I got to this solution:

    Essentially, I cut down the male end of the adapter with a dremel tool until the spacing was correct for the width of the Specialized OSBB shell. After modifying the adapter sleeve, I used a few bottom bracket spacers to go between the adapter sleeve and the Campagnolo cups. This solution works, but the plastic SRAM pf30 adapter sleeve will never be as stiff as the aluminum C-Bear sleeve.

    I will post some pictures of the SRAM adapter install for those who are interested, hopefully I can do so by the end of the day.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclin Dan View Post
    I spoke with Specialized and got the part number, then had my bike shop order it for me. At the time Specialized had 9 left and didn't know if they would get more. He said it was something that they manufactured in house for the EPS Venge.

    I'll swap it out and see if I notice any difference.
    Turns out I wasn't able to get one of these. I've been trying to get in touch with C-Bear for a couple of days...does any body have a better way to reach them other than the info@c-bear.com? I also sent a PM on this forum. I'm in the US, so calling them is a challenge.

    I've got some noises going on in the bottom bracket, and I've noticed the cups are turning...can't be good. I need to get this swapped out ASAP.

    Thanks!

    Dan

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclin Dan View Post
    Turns out I wasn't able to get one of these. I've been trying to get in touch with C-Bear for a couple of days...does any body have a better way to reach them other than the info(at)c-bear.com? I also sent a PM on this forum. I'm in the US, so calling them is a challenge.

    I've got some noises going on in the bottom bracket, and I've noticed the cups are turning...can't be good. I need to get this swapped out ASAP.

    Thanks!

    Dan

    Dan:

    We did not receive any contact from you except the PM u sent yesterday. Unfortunately, we do not have enough postings to privately reply back. So I sent u a visitor's message the same day yesterday via the forum. I suppose you got the visitor's message as I received your email today (6pm my time) to our info email address and I have also replied directly to u just now.

    Aria
    c-bear

  4. #204
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    I just wanted to say that C-Bear has been great! I realized that my initial contact to them via email was addressed wrong. They got back to my properly addressed email straight away, and have been very helpful!

    They seem to know their stuff, and I'm excited to get the product and get it installed. I'm hoping to receive it late next, but that may be optimistic due to the shipping. I'll post a video of the removal of my "Specialized Approved" setup, and illustrate how it's worn over the ~5,000 miles I've put on the bike, and video the installation of the C-Bear setup.

    I'm excited...THANKS C-BEAR!

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merseypride View Post
    I've been following this thread with interest. I've just built up my Venge with full Record groupset and have gone with the Campag pressfit cups in the Spesh delrim cups. I've used loctite 603 and activator 7479. Will see how i go, if i experience any problems i'll go with the C bear adapter

    I appreicate some have had problems running this set up like this, whilst others have it running problem free. I've giving it a shot. I've run Ultra Torque pressfit adapters with loctite on my R5 Bbright frameset without problems so gues i'll just see what happens.
    Merseypride...I've been running the same way and have ran in to issues.

    Mads was absolutely correct. I'm a big guy...235 lbs or so...and I can put down a lot of power (>1,500 watts)...and this is becoming problematic. It's starting to make noise, and I can see the chainring wandering side to side as I pedal.

    I have ordered the C-Bear part, with Italian Cups. I am excited to get it installed. To make sure I wasn't doing any damage I pulled the crank off, and you could definitely see the bearings are wearing poorly due to this thing moving around. On one side the bearing is tight against the spindle, and on the other side there is a 1mm gap!

    At any rate, I was just curious if you're experiencing any issues or not?

    Mads...thanks for your insight on this. I'm in the process of making sure I have all the tools necessary to do this job, and I'm sure I'll be reaching out to you with some questions as bottom bracket maintenance/installation is a new thing to me =)

    Cheers!

  6. #206
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    Hi Mads, I seem to remember that you may have used some form of Wurth sealant when you originally fitted yours. I believe that C-Bear recommend no loctite is needed when installing on a new frame but with a frame which has already been fitted with other cranks, sealant may be required.

    Was this why you used the Wurth product ? Did you find the C-Bear adaptor was still a very tight fit even though you'd used those special adaptors that you had machined especially ?

    I've read that some people are using a Loctite 641 or similar and others more permanent products - this last scenario does scare me somewhat just in case they have to be removed at a later date for any reason!

  7. #207
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    Loctite / C-Bear sleeve

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
    Hi Mads, I seem to remember that you may have used some form of Wurth sealant when you originally fitted yours. I believe that C-Bear recommend no loctite is needed when installing on a new frame but with a frame which has already been fitted with other cranks, sealant may be required.

    Was this why you used the Wurth product ? Did you find the C-Bear adaptor was still a very tight fit even though you'd used those special adaptors that you had machined especially ?

    I've read that some people are using a Loctite 641 or similar and others more permanent products - this last scenario does scare me somewhat just in case they have to be removed at a later date for any reason!
    Hi Bicmac

    My suggestion would be to install the sleeve without any loctites or similar.

    When I installed the sleeve on my own bike - I was not aware of the tight fit of the sleeve, and to be honest, I just did not want to take it apart again.
    But as you've probably guessed - the sleeve fit was very tight, even though I have had other solutions fitted to the OSBB.

    So just go ahead and install the sleeve:

    Use a 14mm threaded rod (should be wider than the Sleeve and the frame OSBB together), 2 x 14mm nuts and some big washers (should be wider than the OSBB diameter), with rubber protectors underneath and a piece of tube, wider than the OSBB, smaller then the washers.
    Put the rod through the OSBB, put the sleeve against the right side of the OSBB, place a washer over the end of the rod, that protrudes out of the sleeve, secure it with a nut.
    Place a rubber protector and the other washer and nut over the rod on the left side of the OSBB. tighten the nuts until you can line it all up against the frame.
    Then slowly start to tighten the nuts and you'll pull the sleeve into the OSBB!!
    When the sleeve is almost through the frame - you'll need the piece of hard tube, which is wider than the diameter of the OSBB and smaller than the diameter of the washers. Place the tube on the left side of the OSBB (take precautions not to scratch the frame), install the washer and the nut again and pull the sleeve the rest of the way through the frame, until the sleeve collar is placed tightly towards the right side of the frame.
    Install the C-Bear washer with the machined recess towards the sleeve / frame, and tighten the Ital or BSA cup. now install and tighten the last cup.
    Congrats - you´re done -now you can install the Crankset.

    With respect

    Mads

  8. #208
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    Hi Mads,

    Many thanks for the step by step process, i'm sure it will be help to a number of subscribers to this forum

  9. #209
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    this is a easy quetion.

    if you pay attention to specialized crank,you will find that its like UT so much,

    so ,you know why there is no problem for shimano sram crank in sworks frame,but just uncompatible for campy

  10. #210
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    Shimano / Sram - carbon OSBB

    Quote Originally Posted by cccyco View Post
    this is a easy quetion.

    if you pay attention to specialized crank,you will find that its like UT so much,

    so ,you know why there is no problem for shimano sram crank in sworks frame,but just uncompatible for campy
    Hi cccyco

    Actually - There is nothing but problems concerning both Shimano / Sram & Specialized cranksets when installed in a Carbon OSBB frame!!

    The Delrin bushings get worn out, and a lot of play develops!

    C-Bear has actually made some new aluminum press in sleves, where the bearings are installed directly into them - So, no more delrin rings

    With Respect

    Mads

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccyco View Post
    this is a easy quetion.

    if you pay attention to specialized crank,you will find that its like UT so much,

    so ,you know why there is no problem for shimano sram crank in sworks frame,but just uncompatible for campy
    cccyco,
    The simple answer is...the bearings on a UT Campy cranks are pressed on to spindle halves. For all other cranks sold including the Sworks cranks which is a similar design you mention (both have Wurth joint)...bearings are pressed into the BB. The problem with a Campy crank is...the pressed on bearings negate any chance for lateral adjustment for preload. You can't change the spacing as you can with Sworks cranks...or Sram and Shimano with removable left crank arm.

    What we have learned from this thread and thanks to Mads for sharing his wisdom is...Specialized Delrin bushings on their carbon OSBB bikes aka Sworks bikes...break down over time...independent of what crank you choose. Kudos to C-bear for their engineering expertise. Basically C-bear has developed a product that Specialized should have. Specialized should have discovered in their development testing that Delrin bushings would take a compression set over time and fail. But unfortunately they learned this through beta testing on their customers. Thankfully there is resolution for those that purchase the otherwise outstanding Sworks bikes.
    Last edited by roadworthy; 07-19-2012 at 05:28 AM.

  12. #212
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    Has anyone ordered and received their Campy OSBB adapter from Specialized yet? I wonder if it is identical with the C-Bear adapter or if there are differences?

    Mainly I want to know if it's BSA or ITA thread on Specialized's adapter. Despite the advantages mentioned with ITA thread, I want to have the BSA version. I think ITA threads on bottom brackets is a design error since precession can occur. I dont know why some manufacturers still insist on using ITA threads

    In this case there is a very simple solution to the problem of preventing the sleeve from rotating by making a groove in the flange on the drive side. Then it can be held in place by an ordinary hook spanner wrench.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Steffo; 07-31-2012 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Typo

  13. #213
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    For those of you interested in the Specialized Campy adapter here it is. It's the same principle as the Shimano adapters that come with the frame and requires you to remove the UT bearings from the crank. It is not a sleeve as described previously. With this solution you still need the crappy delrin cups to be pressed in first. So the C-Bear sleeve is by far the best solution if you want to run Campy cranks. If you run other brands consider their aluminum cups and get rid of the problem once and for all.
    If you have trouble finding them online you can order directly from C-Bear. They have been great dealing with and shipping charges are very reasonable.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SL4 Pro frame OSBB and campy ultra torque crank-nos7-s120400005_l.jpg  

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steffo View Post
    For those of you interested in the Specialized Campy adapter here it is. It's the same principle as the Shimano adapters that come with the frame and requires you to remove the UT bearings from the crank. It is not a sleeve as described previously. With this solution you still need the crappy delrin cups to be pressed in first. So the C-Bear sleeve is by far the best solution if you want to run Campy cranks. If you run other brands consider their aluminum cups and get rid of the problem once and for all.
    If you have trouble finding them online you can order directly from C-Bear. They have been great dealing with and shipping charges are very reasonable.
    I agree with you Steffo. This looks like another accident in waiting. I have to admit being a bit incredulous that Specialized has not abandoned the delrin bushings on their carbon 46mm ID OSBB. Plastic takes a compression set over time and loosens up.
    I agree C-bear is the way to go as a threaded alloy sleeve is much more robust. I would suggest installing the C-bear without Loctite or if using Loctite be sure its the green variety which is serviceable.
    The only benefit of the Specialized 'kluge' of Campy cranks which were designed for a threaded BB is...they are easily removable. Specialized approach is really an equallly poor alternative to Campy's poor adapter used to sell Campy cranks on BB30/PF30 bikes. C-bear is the way to go for all those Sworks owners that want to run Campy cranks.

  15. #215
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    I'm assembling a new SL4 with Campy Record right now. Received it as a replacement for an older Tarmac that cracked in the seatstay close to the dropout. If I had known about the OSBB issues I would probably have asked for an older model.

    I have a C-Bear sleeve on order, no way I'm installing delrin cups. Should be here in a couple of days. Will report back when installed.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steffo View Post
    I'm assembling a new SL4 with Campy Record right now. Received it as a replacement for an older Tarmac that cracked in the seatstay close to the dropout. If I had known about the OSBB issues I would probably have asked for an older model.

    I have a C-Bear sleeve on order, no way I'm installing delrin cups. Should be here in a couple of days. Will report back when installed.
    What is inexplicable really is that not only does Specialized offer Campy like adapter cups that press into soft plastic bushings...but that Specialized continues with their narrow version of PF-30 on their flagship S-work bikes. I guess Specialized makes enough profit to cover all the warranty issues with their carbon OSBB...remarkable.
    Just as the proliferation of BB's now includes a total of three different designs with OSBB being of questionable stiffness/weight benefit aka marketing, my guess is Specialized in the next year or two will move on the next 'greatest' BB design.
    Btw, one of the strong reasons I purchased my Roubaix SL3 Pro and not the S-works version is I wanted to run Campy cranks on a threaded BB per design intent.

  17. #217
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    My dealer has installed the C Bear sleeve in sl4 and use a epoxy component for permanent installation of the sleeve, so I can use my campa SR. Question if i change to a eps system and the sleeve is permanent installed will be that possible?

    Henk

  18. #218
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    I installed the C-Bear sleeve yesterday without any problems on a Tarmac S-Works SL3, the solution is to freeze for a good 2 hours. In this way, it is easy to install. No more noise

  19. #219
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    My dealer has installed the C Bear sleeve in sl4 and use a epoxy component for permanent installation of the sleeve, so I can use my campa SR. Question if i change to a eps system and the sleeve is permanent installed will be that possible?

    Henk

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by 52x11 View Post
    My dealer has installed the C Bear sleeve in sl4 and use a epoxy component for permanent installation of the sleeve, so I can use my campa SR. Question if i change to a eps system and the sleeve is permanent installed will be that possible?

    Henk
    No problem, It's the same crankset

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoye View Post
    No problem, It's the same crankset
    oke, what i mean is cable handling to connecting the cable's then you need acces to the osbb area, when the sleeve is installed will maybe not possible? Or can you install the eps cable's when the sleeve is (permanent) position?

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoye View Post
    I installed the C-Bear sleeve yesterday without any problems on a Tarmac S-Works SL3, the solution is to freeze for a good 2 hours. In this way, it is easy to install. No more noise
    oke, what i mean is cable handling to connecting the cable's then you need acces to the osbb area, when the sleeve is installed will maybe not possible? Or can you install the eps cable's when the sleeve is (permanent) position?

  23. #223
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    EPS question - Sleeve

    Quote Originally Posted by 52x11 View Post
    oke, what i mean is cable handling to connecting the cable's then you need acces to the osbb area, when the sleeve is installed will maybe not possible? Or can you install the eps cable's when the sleeve is (permanent) position?
    Hello 52x11

    There should be no problems with installing EPS, even though you lbs have installed the C-Bear sleeve with epoxy - which is NOT necessary by the way!!

    The cables for the EPS is run over the OSBB - not inside it!!

    Your lbs is going to remove the bottom cable guide in order to access the inside of your frame and run the cables over the OSBB!!

    With respect

    Mads

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by 52x11 View Post
    oke, what i mean is cable handling to connecting the cable's then you need acces to the osbb area, when the sleeve is installed will maybe not possible? Or can you install the eps cable's when the sleeve is (permanent) position?
    Look here, http://vimeo.com/25739509 It's the same method but with electric cable

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaetuning View Post
    Hello 52x11

    There should be no problems with installing EPS, even though you lbs have installed the C-Bear sleeve with epoxy - which is NOT necessary by the way!!

    The cables for the EPS is run over the OSBB - not inside it!!

    Your lbs is going to remove the bottom cable guide in order to access the inside of your frame and run the cables over the OSBB!!

    With respect

    Mads
    many thanks for your explanation!

    Henk

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