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  1. #1
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    Venge Vias backlash....

    Just thought I would start a separate thread on this. I know everyone seems to be bashing the new Venge, especially since the pro riders haven't been using them. Whether it's rider preference, the brakes, not enough seat time, or whatever the case may be. I don't know how quickly riders typically adjust or switch to the new bikes when they come out. I seem to remember the original venge first being raced at MSR, and it was incorporated relatively quickly to other pro riders after that. So why aren't other pro riders using it? I know some of the ITU triathletes are now using the Vias as well. It will be really interesting to see what happens early next year when the spring classics and big races come back. Marketing wise, it would look really bad if the big names weren't riding the bike. And of course you don't want to force riders to be riding something they don't like, you want them to love it and want to use it for everything day in and day out.

    I know some of the guys at Spesh have said the reason Cav and Sagan weren't riding them more during the TdF was that they did not have enough seat time and weren't comfortable using them yet. A few months have passed, and we still aren't seeing them being used. What gives?

  2. #2
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    Riding friend on mine demoed one.. Didn't have any complaints.. Will hopefully talk to him more this weekend when we ride. I would like to demo it too.. But it's a 54 .. Which is a little big for me
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by spdntrxi View Post
    Riding friend on mine demoed one.. Didn't have any complaints.. Will hopefully talk to him more this weekend when we ride. I would like to demo it too.. But it's a 54 .. Which is a little big for me
    "demoing" a bike for a few minutes around local streets is far different from professional "racing". We normally just scoot around, mess with the gears, pull back on the brakes, and thats that. And conditions are usually at its best. Sunny, warm, and road conditions are DRY.

    Pros on the other hand push themselves and their equipment to their outer limits, time and time again. They ride in all sorts of weather and conditions. So there's no way for us amateurs to compare a "bike" vs how a professional would offer their input, day in and day out.

    Also, pros are creatures of habit. They prefer to have a set routine, use equipment that are proven by themselves. Not "proven" by what others in the industry says. Its almost all robotic at that point. They know far they can push themselves and their equipment. I guess thats what sets apart amateurs vs professionals.

  4. #4
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    Yes, when you're making a million plus in salary and competing for a million in prize money, its not wise to take risks. Contadore won the 2011 Giro on his SL3 Tarmac, months after Specialized introduced the SL4 - and after having tried to get him to ride it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mile2424 View Post
    Just thought I would start a separate thread on this. I know everyone seems to be bashing the new Venge, especially since the pro riders haven't been using them. Whether it's rider preference, the brakes, not enough seat time, or whatever the case may be. I don't know how quickly riders typically adjust or switch to the new bikes when they come out. I seem to remember the original venge first being raced at MSR, and it was incorporated relatively quickly to other pro riders after that. So why aren't other pro riders using it? I know some of the ITU triathletes are now using the Vias as well. It will be really interesting to see what happens early next year when the spring classics and big races come back. Marketing wise, it would look really bad if the big names weren't riding the bike. And of course you don't want to force riders to be riding something they don't like, you want them to love it and want to use it for everything day in and day out.

    I know some of the guys at Spesh have said the reason Cav and Sagan weren't riding them more during the TdF was that they did not have enough seat time and weren't comfortable using them yet. A few months have passed, and we still aren't seeing them being used. What gives?
    Next year for the spring classics if the riders aren't on it, it would be bad? I'd say the bad press is already happening.. the fact that we're talking about it in this thread is proof of that. I'm a big Specialized fan-boy, I'll admit that... but I think they dropped the ball on this bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by NealH View Post
    Yes, when you're making a million plus in salary and competing for a million in prize money, its not wise to take risks. Contadore won the 2011 Giro on his SL3 Tarmac, months after Specialized introduced the SL4 - and after having tried to get him to ride it.
    and yet, last year, when they introduced the "SL5" almost all of the riders switched immediately and they all seemed to love it, so when the bike is right, they've got no problems making the jump.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenetsang View Post
    "demoing" a bike for a few minutes around local streets is far different from professional "racing". We normally just scoot around, mess with the gears, pull back on the brakes, and thats that. And conditions are usually at its best. Sunny, warm, and road conditions are DRY.

    Pros on the other hand push themselves and their equipment to their outer limits, time and time again. They ride in all sorts of weather and conditions. So there's no way for us amateurs to compare a "bike" vs how a professional would offer their input, day in and day out.



    Also, pros are creatures of habit. They prefer to have a set routine, use equipment that are proven by themselves. Not "proven" by what others in the industry says. Its almost all robotic at that point. They know far they can push themselves and their equipment. I guess thats what sets apart amateurs vs professionals.
    it was a 42 miles demo... with 2.5k of climbing... so it was a little more involved. I can do the same, but not sure a 54 will really tell me anything.. I'd have to put the seat so low like the old days

  7. #7
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    I am not a fan of the bike's looks, but I am of the to each his own perspective. To clarify one point though, Cavendish actually used the bike for the British National Championship. Here's the race if you actually want to see it in action:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsxZX0lzA04
    Every climb has its end, for verily with difficulty there is relief...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashadabd View Post
    I am not a fan of the bike's looks, but I am of the to each his own perspective. To clarify one point though, Cavendish actually used the bike for the British National Championship. Here's the race if you actually want to see it in action:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsxZX0lzA04
    He also gave an interview after that race saying he didn't trust the brakes and had a really close call during it. That was the race that made him decide not to ride it after.

    https://youtu.be/ceDXIqhVf7k?t=50s
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  9. #9
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    The 49 is fugly.. The 52/54 are the sweet spots looks wise for this frame
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  10. #10
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    Whatever the issue is with the brakes, and any other area, it will get corrected. Not sure if they will address the ugliness of the steerer/handlebar interface but, I guess its not a performance issue so to speak. But the pro teams should have these bikes by next year so I will speculate that we will see them far more often - at least on the boring flat stages.

  11. #11
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    Just to be clear, I was never posting this message saying the bike is a failure. I think most of the naysayers haven't ridden one first hand, or are just passing along the rumors they here such as Cav not liking the brakes, and Sagan not riding for every race, etc. I was just wondering when we will see the pro's adapt and use the bike more regularly, and it seems like this is only a matter of more seat time and more availability to supply the rest of the riders from the pro teams. Nice to see Sagan use it in Stage 4 of AD.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TricrossRich View Post
    Next year for the spring classics if the riders aren't on it, it would be bad? I'd say the bad press is already happening.. the fact that we're talking about it in this thread is proof of that. I'm a big Specialized fan-boy, I'll admit that... but I think they dropped the ball on this bike.



    and yet, last year, when they introduced the "SL5" almost all of the riders switched immediately and they all seemed to love it, so when the bike is right, they've got no problems making the jump.

    +1 on all of this response. And I too, am a fanboy of the company's products.
    It's unlikely the spring classics will add much clarity, as this wasn't the machine for many, namely the ones with cobbled sections.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thumper8888 View Post
    +1 on all of this response. And I too, am a fanboy of the company's products.
    It's unlikely the spring classics will add much clarity, as this wasn't the machine for many, namely the ones with cobbled sections.
    I am not a huge Specialized fan per se, but I love the Tarmac and consider it and the Giant TCR as the gold standard for all-around race bikes. I agree with both you and Rich on this one as well.

    The only thing I will add is that aero road bikes are being used more often in the cobbled classics these days than you might expect. Both Flanders and Milan San Remo were won on them this year (Giant and Canyon) and Team Sky created their new cobble bike out of their aero road bike (F8 and K8). The KOM jersey at the Vuelta was won on an aero Fuji Transonic and we all know what Froome does on his Pinarello. I don't expect to see a pure aero road bike ridden to victory at Roubaix any time soon, but they really are full season bikes at this point. Most of Team MTN Qhubeka/Dimension Data ride theirs (Cervelo S3 and S5) all year as well.

    I guess Sagan and Lizzie brought balance back to the universe with their wins at the World Championships though, lol.

  14. #14
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    It's interesting to ponder. There are several aero bikes on the market now that regular riders own and enjoy (Giant, Fuji, Cervelo, Trek) for all of their riding. The VIAS seemed to review well but I have yet to see one in the wild. There were a TON of specialized's under riders at the world's in Richmond, but not one VIAS that I could find.

    I think part of the issue among the pro field is that the bike is simply heavy, even by aero bike standards. Judging by now many "regular" road bikes we see in the pro peloton, that must still be a factor.
    Last edited by davidka; 10-20-2015 at 06:39 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidka View Post

    I think part of the issue among the pro field is that the bike is simply heavy, even by aero bike standards. Judging by now many "regular" road bikes we see in the pro peleton, that must still be a factor.
    Funny you mentioned, "heavy". A few weeks ago, after my group ride, we stopped by my LBS for some coffee. They had a ViAS lying around. I'm not sure if it's a demo model or customer's. But it was on display with Zipps, cages, and Look Blades pedals.

    The size was a little larger than what I ride (52). So my guess is that it was a 54... I went to pick it up and was shocked to see how heavy it was. I ride an older tarmac SL2. So to compare, my bike is a cow compared to the newer bikes that are out on the market.

    I was shocked that the ViAS was only slightly lighter than mine.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidka View Post
    It's interesting to ponder. There are several aero bikes on the market now that regular riders own and enjoy (Giant, Fuji, Cervelo, Trek) for all of their riding. The VIAS seemed to review well buy I have yet to see one in the wild. There were a TON of specialized's under riders at the world's in Richmond, but not one VIAS that I could find.

    I think part of the issue among the pro field is that the bike is simply heavy, even by aero bike standards. Judging by now many "regular" road bikes we see in the pro peleton, that must still be a factor.
    I agree... as someone that uses a 1st Gen. Venge as my everyday bike that I do a fair bit of climbing on, I know that aero bikes aren't heavy... but there seems to be something about the Vias the pros are objecting too... I really think it is the brakes more than the weight. When I first saw the design, the brakes were my concern. All of the bikes that use proprietary brakes, people complain about... The Giant Propel, the BMC TMR01, etc... I've seen mixed reviews about all of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by eugenetsang View Post
    Funny you mentioned, "heavy". A few weeks ago, after my group ride, we stopped by my LBS for some coffee. They had a ViAS lying around. I'm not sure if it's a demo model or customer's. But it was on display with Zipps, cages, and Look Blades pedals.

    The size was a little larger than what I ride (52). So my guess is that it was a 54... I went to pick it up and was shocked to see how heavy it was. I ride an older tarmac SL2. So to compare, my bike is a cow compared to the newer bikes that are out on the market.

    I was shocked that the ViAS was only slightly lighter than mine.
    Eugene... I'm pretty sure I know what shop you're talking about.. LOL I actually saw ViAS in the wild, back in September, up in Palisades Park... Was a big dude riding it... he said it was his first "real" bike and he went a bit overboard... said it was "way more bike than I need or deserve, but I was in the right place at the right time and couldn't say no." I didn't pick it up or touch it, so I don't know if the bike was heavy or not. The guy did say he loved it, but I also don't really know if he was experienced to know if the bike was doing things the way most would expect.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TricrossRich View Post

    Eugene... I'm pretty sure I know what shop you're talking about.. LOL I actually saw ViAS in the wild, back in September, up in Palisades Park... Was a big dude riding it... he said it was his first "real" bike and he went a bit overboard... said it was "way more bike than I need or deserve, but I was in the right place at the right time and couldn't say no." I didn't pick it up or touch it, so I don't know if the bike was heavy or not. The guy did say he loved it, but I also don't really know if he was experienced to know if the bike was doing things the way most would expect.


    Rich,

    haha yeah we were at Strictly's. it was a cold morning. We needed some coffee to warm us up (post ride). The ViAS was on "display" by the shoes and helmet shelving unit. I mean, there isn't many of them around. So it may possibly be the same bike/owner you're referring to.

    To the guy dropping $13,000 on a bike without hesitation... We're doing something wrong haha.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenetsang View Post
    Rich,

    haha yeah we were at Strictly's. it was a cold morning. We needed some coffee to warm us up (post ride). The ViAS was on "display" by the shoes and helmet shelving unit. I mean, there isn't many of them around. So it may possibly be the same bike/owner you're referring to.

    To the guy dropping $13,000 on a bike without hesitation... We're doing something wrong haha.
    Nah... the guy I saw had the Roval CLX64's. It was the full deal...
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  19. #19
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    bike game is getting super serious in the North East!

  20. #20
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    Found this article about the ViAS. It looks super complicated to build, especially with all of its hidden cables and gadgets.

    The article says the final build weight (minus pedals) weighs in a hefty 17.57lbs. Maybe that is reason as to why the Pros are not riding it.

    Maybe ViAS v2.0 will come down in weight and fixes the braking issue. I'm no engineer or physicist. But the brakes seem not to be in the most optimal position, especially the front brake. It seems logically for the best stopping power, it should be placed back in its traditional position. But that will negate their drag that they are trying to limit.


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  21. #21
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eugenetsang View Post
    Rich,

    haha yeah we were at Strictly's. it was a cold morning. We needed some coffee to warm us up (post ride). The ViAS was on "display" by the shoes and helmet shelving unit. I mean, there isn't many of them around. So it may possibly be the same bike/owner you're referring to.

    To the guy dropping $13,000 on a bike without hesitation... We're doing something wrong haha.
    Specialized Financing: no finance charges if paid off in 1 year, so...10% down, $975. monthly(?)

  23. #23
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    Chalk up another win in the pro peloton for the Vias. Haters going to hate...

  24. #24
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    Mine's in the shop getting built now -- can't wait!

  25. #25
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    Yikes! 17.5lbs without pedals? My 61cm Fuji Transonic is 14.6lbs with pedals. I chose aero over weight (coulda dropped over a pound with their climbing frame/fork and 24mm deep rims) but wouldn't make that choice if the weight penalty was so large.

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