Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    172

    23 vs 25mm tires

    Question concerning people's experience with 23 vs 25mm tires.

    The reason I am asking is I am trying to understand what has more impact on the way a frame feels "buzzy" or harsh on rough pavement. I normally ride a Trek 2100 Aluminum with carbon stays. I recently test rode a new Trek 2.3 which is all aluminum. It felt more harsh than my bike, but the 2.3 had 23mm tires, and my bike has 25mm tires. Both bikes had the tires set to the same pressure (100 psi).

    So, is the difference probably attributable to the tires? or is it really the frame material?

  2. #2
    Darling of The Lounge
    Reputation: Retro Grouch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    3,719
    I recent switched from 23mm to 25mm Continental Gatorskins on my steel road bike and kept the same 110 psi. There is a slight difference in ride quality and less frame buzz. Then again, it could be more from going from old worn tires to a fresh set.

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    123
    I typically ride both everyday. I really can't tell a significant difference in ride quality, I try to stay on nicely paved roads but it hardly happens.

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: crossracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,179
    I ride both 23 and 25, and there is a difference. THe same way you can feel the difference between a cheap tire and a really nice one, you can feel a difference between a 23 and a 25.
    AS of late most of my rides have been on a set of 32 spoke wheels and 25 mm tires. But that also brings up the question, were the wheels different? That would also account for a lot of road feel also.

    Bill

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    172
    Yes, the wheels were different - sort of. My bike has Bontrager Select wheels, the 2.3 has newer Bontrager Race wheels. Probably not that much different after all, except my old Select wheels have a low spoke count pattern.

  6. #6
    banned
    Reputation: Sisophous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    702
    I had a big interest in this same subject.

    I went from 23 to 25 and the ride is slightly smoother and noticeably faster. There is less rolling resistance with the 25s than with the 23s which makes for a faster ride. I got my Trek new in June of last year and riding for 8 months with the 23 tires I got 4 flats. Riding for two months with the Continental Grand Prix 25s and no flats. I note the tube is the same but the slightly larger tire is less prone to flats.

    If I ride over tough terrain on the 25s, it is no better than a 23, I feel it. But overall, the 25s are much better than the 23s. I also have hit some big pot holes with the 25s that would have caused a pinch flat if I had hit them with the 23s.

    I fill my tires to the max, 120psi and I do so to maximize my speed. Riding at 100psi will cause more resistance and slow you down.

    My last bike I rode for years was an all steel frame Ironman Centurion. That bike had 28 tires and the ride was smoother and my times were just as fast as on my all Carbon Trek bike.

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    36
    The biggest difference I noticed when I switched to 25s was that I had less flats and now that is a good thing.

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: JCavilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    11,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Sisophous View Post
    I fill my tires to the max, 120psi and I do so to maximize my speed. Riding at 100psi will cause more resistance and slow you down.
    wrong

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    262
    I ride 23 and 25
    s. I feel lno difference.

    BTW, if you measure a Conti GP4000 in a 23 against some other brands in a 25 (Sefas Seca), you'll find they are nearly the same. Plus the 23 Seca will be more narrow than the 23 GP.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: 55x11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,978
    Quote Originally Posted by JCavilia View Post
    wrong
    could be right. If the recommended pressure is 120psi, 100 psi is likely to increase the rolling resistance due to increased tire deformation - at least for rolling on smooth surfaces.

  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,097
    Then of course there is the reality that all 700x23's are not created equal.

    The 700x23 Bontrager R3+ I have on one bike definitely has more "volume" and is larger in diameter than the Michelin 700x23 Krylion Carbons that I have on a couple of other bikes. And both of those dwarf the 700x23 Panaracer Closers on my fixed.

    For that matter, the Continental 700x28's I had on my commuter weren't appreciably bigger in either width or diameter than the Bontragers, and the Panaracer Pasela Tourguards in a 700x28 I replaced the Continentals with are huge in comparison. Go figure.
    Anyone who believes there are no stupid questions never worked in a bike shop.

  12. #12
    Does it matter?
    Reputation: Mersault's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    771
    23 vs 25

    same subject over there.

  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: JCavilia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    11,907
    Quote Originally Posted by 55x11 View Post
    could be right. If the recommended pressure is 120psi, 100 psi is likely to increase the rolling resistance due to increased tire deformation - at least for rolling on smooth surfaces.
    very smooth surfaces. not the real world, and not the riding conditions he described. On real roads, excessively high pressure means worse control, worse cornering, net slower speeds. Very low pressure will increase rolling resistance enough to cancel those advantages. But not 100 psi.

    There is no "recommended pressure" marked on road bike tires, only a "maximum pressure." Almost nobody is well served riding at those pressures.

    His misconception is a common one, but it's a misconception nonetheless.

  14. #14
    banned
    Reputation: Sisophous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    702
    Quote Originally Posted by JCavilia View Post
    very smooth surfaces. not the real world, and not the riding conditions he described. On real roads, excessively high pressure means worse control, worse cornering, net slower speeds. Very low pressure will increase rolling resistance enough to cancel those advantages. But not 100 psi.

    There is no "recommended pressure" marked on road bike tires, only a "maximum pressure." Almost nobody is well served riding at those pressures.

    His misconception is a common one, but it's a misconception nonetheless.
    Mr. Cavilia, I thank you for your pompous, arrogant, factually wrong, Mr. Know it All reply. I take it you are an expert qualified to shoot down anyone's point? I try hard not to flame anyone but you can't help but insult others.

    My tire pressure is not "EXCESSIVELY HIGH". At 120 psi it is the listed, recommended max pressure, not exceeding it.

    I ride, I do not post behind a computer lecturing others about something you clearly know nothing about despite your multitude of posts which makes you think you know something others don't. My rides are clearly faster when I ride with max pressure on my tires. I, nor anyone else need your input to tell us we are wrong.

    Anyone can fill their tires to 100 psi, ride and time themselves, and then fill their tires on another day to 120psi and time themselves and compare the times.

    You are one of a number of posters who post wrong information.

    Please put a lid on it.

  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,393
    I don't notice any difference in "road buzz" if I use the same pressure.

    I do noticed a slight improvement with 25s over rough road (holes, bad cracks ect) but what most people term 'buzz'....no difference felt by me.

    Regarding your specific reason for asking op.........frame has such a low impact on road buzz relative to wheels and tires that I'd have to guess that if the difference was so great that it stood out to you in a test drive it indeed had something to do with tires/wheels and not the frame.

    Even when comparing my high end carbon frame to my other aluminum frame with identical wheels and tires I only noticed a difference when I'm many miles into a ride and feel less beat up. I don't actually feel anything different just riding alone. It's the cumulative effect of vibration I don't noticed that I eventually notice.

    100% guessing on my part but I got to think the difference you feel is not from the frame if it stood out like that in a test ride. Or if the difference is frame it probably only accounts for a portion of the difference.

  16. #16
    wim
    wim is online now
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    10,459
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I don't notice any difference in "road buzz" if I use the same pressure..
    At the same pressure, the larger tire is a bit "harder" and deforms a little less than the smaller one. So if anything, you actually should have felt a little more buzz with the larger tire. But the whole idea of going to a larger tire is to be able to ride at less pressures. So getting larger tires and filling them to the same pressure than your smaller ones sort of defeats the reason for the change.

  17. #17
    Formosan Cyclocross
    Reputation: Dajianshan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,372
    The biggest difference is that 25c is harder to find. As far as speed goes... I had a CO2 malfunction and rode 30 miles at 40psi... at 20mph. I just had to be careful over bumps or potholes.

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: cyclesport45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,535
    The difference is 2 millimeters, give or take. . . .
    Just ride.

  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,464
    Are you sure you used the same air pressure in the tires of both bikes?

    Tire pressure is a significant factor in how much a tire can absorb high frequency road irregularities such as chip sealed roads. A larger tire such as a 25 vs. a 23mm will let you run lower pressure so a 25mm tire SHOULD give you a smoother ride. I personally think people inflate their tires too high.

    Once air pressure is out of the equation, wheels can be a big factor in transmitting road buzz. Tall rims have a lot of vertical stiffness so won't absorb much.

    I think the only factor that's equal to tire pressure in affecting the smoothness of the ride is frame design. Carbon has a tremendous ability to damp road vibration. Carbon forks have a great influence on this as well. Add the carbon stays on your Trek and you have additional damping qualities.

    So I think frame material is the number one factor, but tire pressure is almost equal at #2. Tire size may dictate how much pressure you need to prevent pinch flats, but I feel most people over inflate their tires and lose any vibration damping.

  20. #20
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by Sisophous View Post
    Mr. Cavilia, I thank you for your pompous, arrogant, factually wrong, Mr. Know it All reply. I take it you are an expert qualified to shoot down anyone's point? I try hard not to flame anyone but you can't help but insult others.

    My tire pressure is not "EXCESSIVELY HIGH". At 120 psi it is the listed, recommended max pressure, not exceeding it.

    I ride, I do not post behind a computer lecturing others about something you clearly know nothing about despite your multitude of posts which makes you think you know something others don't. My rides are clearly faster when I ride with max pressure on my tires. I, nor anyone else need your input to tell us we are wrong.

    Anyone can fill their tires to 100 psi, ride and time themselves, and then fill their tires on another day to 120psi and time themselves and compare the times.

    You are one of a number of posters who post wrong information.

    Please put a lid on it.
    thats the maximum pressure for safety reasons....it is not the recommended pressure!!

    your fastest pressure will depend on a couple of things....your weight and the types of roads u ride. it is a fallacy that higher psi = a faster ride.

    in a velodrome on a super smooth surface....yes it will be faster, however, on the road with lots of little cracks and bumps etc, a harder tyre (sorry tire) will bounce other the million little bumps and lose energy/speed. thats the reason off road vehicles run lower pressures....so the vehicle glides over the bumps inside of bouncing the car to bits.

    essentially the best pressure should be as low enough that u don't get pinch flats, so the max psi of 120 psi is essentially for the heavy weights.

    i weight 72 kgs (about 160 pounds i think), and run 90 - 100 psi. if i run 120psi, my hands and arse hurt from the vibration and i'm shattered by the end of a 100km ride.....and its slower (although it may not feel like it). 90 -1 00 psi is a smoother more comfortable ride (for my weight)....and definitely FASTER!!

    unless your an elephant, u are overinflating your tire:


    ĽAn overinflated tyre will have slightly less rolling resistance if the surface is very smooth..
    ĽAn overinflated tyre is more prone to damage from sharp rocks and similar road hazards.
    ĽAn overinflated tyre will give a harsh ride on anything but the smoothest pavement.
    ĽAn overinflated tyre can bounce on surface roughnesses. This can cause dangerous interruptions in traction, particularly if it happens during cornering.

  21. #21
    Formosan Cyclocross
    Reputation: Dajianshan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,372
    I remember seeing a tire pressure guide on the Continental site a while back that was based on weight. My optimal pressure for 4000GP was something like 100psi in dry conditions. I can't seem to find the guide now.

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by captain stubbing View Post
    thats the maximum pressure for safety reasons....it is not the recommended pressure!!

    your fastest pressure will depend on a couple of things....your weight and the types of roads u ride. it is a fallacy that higher psi = a faster ride.

    in a velodrome on a super smooth surface....yes it will be faster, however, on the road with lots of little cracks and bumps etc, a harder tyre (sorry tire) will bounce other the million little bumps and lose energy/speed. thats the reason off road vehicles run lower pressures....so the vehicle glides over the bumps inside of bouncing the car to bits.

    essentially the best pressure should be as low enough that u don't get pinch flats, so the max psi of 120 psi is essentially for the heavy weights.

    i weight 72 kgs (about 160 pounds i think), and run 90 - 100 psi. if i run 120psi, my hands and arse hurt from the vibration and i'm shattered by the end of a 100km ride.....and its slower (although it may not feel like it). 90 -1 00 psi is a smoother more comfortable ride (for my weight)....and definitely FASTER!!

    unless your an elephant, u are overinflating your tire:


    ĽAn overinflated tyre will have slightly less rolling resistance if the surface is very smooth..
    ĽAn overinflated tyre is more prone to damage from sharp rocks and similar road hazards.
    ĽAn overinflated tyre will give a harsh ride on anything but the smoothest pavement.
    ĽAn overinflated tyre can bounce on surface roughnesses. This can cause dangerous interruptions in traction, particularly if it happens during cornering.
    This is correct. There have been numerous discussions on this topic on this board with links to supporting studies.

    Running max pressure for best speed is just plain wrong.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by Sisophous View Post
    Mr. Cavilia, I thank you for your pompous, arrogant, factually wrong, Mr. Know it All reply. I take it you are an expert qualified to shoot down anyone's point? I try hard not to flame anyone but you can't help but insult others.

    My tire pressure is not "EXCESSIVELY HIGH". At 120 psi it is the listed, recommended max pressure, not exceeding it.

    I ride, I do not post behind a computer lecturing others about something you clearly know nothing about despite your multitude of posts which makes you think you know something others don't. My rides are clearly faster when I ride with max pressure on my tires. I, nor anyone else need your input to tell us we are wrong.

    Anyone can fill their tires to 100 psi, ride and time themselves, and then fill their tires on another day to 120psi and time themselves and compare the times.

    You are one of a number of posters who post wrong information.

    Please put a lid on it.
    Have you been riding about three months? Your anecdotal 6 mile ride doesn't mean anything. If I felt like digging it up I'd post the Schwalbe tire studies which pointed to lower pressures and bigger volume as being faster in real world applications. But I'm guessing you are more of an expert than the Schwalbe engineers?

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: mrcookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    265
    i ride 25s because someone convinced me they would provide a more comfortable ride. i weigh 220 and ride them at about 100 psi, and have never had a pinch flat in 6000 miles on the 25s. 1/4 mph faster or slower, i could care less about....
    Cook

  25. #25
    Yo no fui.
    Reputation: Pablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,776
    Not to pick on anyone, but honestly, who gets insulted and offended about an interwebs discussion of tire pressure? Most of these sorts of discussions with people who get (or seem to be) offended are about as useful as pushing a rock up a hill over and over.

    Some resources can't hurt:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...f-wheel-energy

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars.ö Laurent Fignon

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 25mm tires?
    By purplecu22 in forum Colnago
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-14-2010, 04:19 PM
  2. 23 VS 25mm tires
    By CActuskid in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 11-13-2009, 05:04 PM
  3. 25mm Tires ????
    By PinarelloFan in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-05-2008, 01:58 AM
  4. Are 25mm tires slower than 23mm tires?
    By UCLA_MCDbio in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-21-2004, 05:56 AM
  5. Tires -Best 25mm under $30.?
    By breadrunner in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-19-2004, 10:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

INTERBIKE

Contest

Hot Deals See All Hot Deals >>

Interbike Featured Booths

Check out the hottest road bike products from these brands!



















See All Interbike Coverage - Click Here »


Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook