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  1. #1
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    700x23 vs 700x25

    I recently wore out my old 25's and switched them for 23's. Much faster but seemingly much less stable.

    On my first full ride I hit some unexpected debris in a turn and crashed. Bad.

    Just getting back on the bike and now i feel this more than ever.

    Curious if there are any suggestions?

    The bike is a Specialized Secteur Sport. These are what I see as possibilities?
    1. Get used to it. Maybe as I recover regain confidence and just get used to the tires it will be better?
    2. An adjustment to the bike? LBS made no suggestions but I did not recognize this issue last time I was there.
    3. New wheels? Could better wheels (I have the stock ones) make the bike feel more stable?
    4. Don't put 23's on a low end bike??

    Thanks. First post here. Appreciate any feedback.

  2. #2
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    Surprising that you seem to be experiencing such a big difference between the two sizes. What pressures were you running in the 25 vs 23?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by looigi View Post
    Surprising that you seem to be experiencing such a big difference between the two sizes. What pressures were you running in the 25 vs 23?
    120 psi on each. Basically the recommended max. It could be in my head after the crash which is why I mentioned my first option of essentially getting used to it.

  4. #4
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    i think 25's ride better than 23's. i don't use 23's for anything. conti gatorskin are my top choice, am also using mich krylion on racing wheels. i only race crits so it is good to have more contact patch. i also don't run high pressures. i can tell no difference in speed. maybe you would be faster if you had more confidence in equipment.

  5. #5
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    Please do some research on recommended psi. You'll find that you should be running much lower pressure.

  6. #6
    What did you say? Huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    120 psi on each. Basically the recommended max. It could be in my head after the crash which is why I mentioned my first option of essentially getting used to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by avam View Post
    Please do some research on recommended psi. You'll find that you should be running much lower pressure.
    Yup. If you need max PSI to avoid pinch flats, then you need larger tires.
    Man. You are all stuped.
    ~RUFUSPHOTO

  7. #7
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    1. If you inflate same model 25mm & 23mm tire to the same pressure, the 25mm tire will have less rolling resistance and should be slightly faster.

    2. If you changed from 25mm to 23mm and did not recalibrate your speed computer to the new tire size, your computer is probably now reading faster than your actual speed.

    3. As the others have said, you should research tire pressure recommendations for your weight. If you must ride any tire at maximum recommended pressure, you are an ideal candidate for the next size up in tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    I recently wore out my old 25's and switched them for 23's. Much faster but seemingly much less stable.

    On my first full ride I hit some unexpected debris in a turn and crashed. Bad.

    Just getting back on the bike and now i feel this more than ever.

    Curious if there are any suggestions?

    The bike is a Specialized Secteur Sport. These are what I see as possibilities?
    1. Get used to it. Maybe as I recover regain confidence and just get used to the tires it will be better?
    2. An adjustment to the bike? LBS made no suggestions but I did not recognize this issue last time I was there.
    3. New wheels? Could better wheels (I have the stock ones) make the bike feel more stable?
    4. Don't put 23's on a low end bike??

    Thanks. First post here. Appreciate any feedback.
    Last edited by gtpharr; 07-09-2011 at 02:18 PM. Reason: spelling

  8. #8
    Steaming piles of opinion
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    Just some data on what everyone else has been saying:

    http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf
    A good habit is as hard to break as a bad one..

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all the tips. Different from what the shop said. Definitely need to do more research.

  10. #10
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    Thanks for all the tips. Different from what the shop said. Definitely need to do more research.
    You never gave us an indication of what you weigh and that was probably the most important part. I use 120psi and 23mm tires only on a dead smooth indoor board velodrome. On the road I use 25mm tires pumped to 90-100psi. 170lbs here.
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  11. #11
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    About 190 these days. The guy at the shop (knowledgable LBS) suggested keep it fully at 120. Fill it every morning. Might try a little less.

  12. #12
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    About 190 these days. The guy at the shop (knowledgable LBS) suggested keep it fully at 120. Fill it every morning. Might try a little less.
    IMO 120 is ridiculous. Try 90-100 and see how nice that is. Let the tire work for you; not against you.
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  13. #13
    T K
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    I too am 190. What you need to do is ride 25s at about 105 rear and 100 front give or take to start. 120 in a 25 is way too much. I do the max 115 in my 23c pro race Mich. on race day. 25s with lower pressure for every day is oh sooo much more enjoyable.

  14. #14
    Yo no fui.
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    FYI, this is a classic debate. There are dozens and dozens of threads on 25s v. 23s and or proper tire pressure.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    FYI, this is a classic debate. There are dozens and dozens of threads on 25s v. 23s and or proper tire pressure.
    Must say the discussion here is very different from what I had heard. I heard max pressure and narrower is better.

    This is making me think. I may want to play around a bit but the one thing that gives me pause is the hills. They are steep here. The LBS said keep them fully inflated. They know the roads.

    Guess maybe I need to find the time to do more local group rides.

  16. #16
    Born to chase Ducks
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    I weigh 250 and am running 23s at 105 f / 115 r, and have a reasonably comfortable ride and no issues with flatting, pinch or otherwise. Running Serfas Seca RS tires.

  17. #17
    T K
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    Must say the discussion here is very different from what I had heard. I heard max pressure and narrower is better.

    This is making me think. I may want to play around a bit but the one thing that gives me pause is the hills. They are steep here. The LBS said keep them fully inflated. They know the roads.

    Guess maybe I need to find the time to do more local group rides.
    My experience has been most guys at the bike shop don't always know what they are talking about. They live in their own little worlds and have a lot of outdated information. This seems to be the case with their "max pressure and narrower is better" thinking. Only in a velodrome or a super flat TT would this statement have much merrit.
    Also, you seem to be of the belief that this tire size/ pressure thing is going to make you significantly faster or slower to keep up with or be faster than someone else. You'll learn like I did, took me a few years, all these little things don't add up to much. Being a stronger better conditioned and smarter rider are what will keep you in the pack.

  18. #18
    Yo no fui.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    The LBS said keep them fully inflated.
    Well, again, this is a re-hashed subject, but there's a lot of resources in previous threads and on the interwebs about max versus ideal tire pressure.

    As for their advice, don't be afraid to experiment. What many riders, and especially the mainstream bike industry (including many bike shops) consider "road" biking and the associated road biking gear is a pretty narrow vision of riding bikes on certain roads in a certain way. In my experience, it's really ridden by and directed towards racing and not riding. Road biking (including racing) has evolved and changed a lot over the past 100+ years, in ways not always better for recreational riding. What is best for you depends on a lot of things, but the best, and maybe only way to find out is to be willing to try out new things.
    "It is better to conquer yourself, than to win a thousand battles." -Dhammapada

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

    "A true cyclist sometimes has to bite the dust before he can reach the stars. Laurent Fignon

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    IMO 120 is ridiculous. Try 90-100 and see how nice that is. Let the tire work for you; not against you.
    I'd agree in 25's - but with 23's, 100 in the back is gonna be draggy and risk pinches on road imperfections.
    A good habit is as hard to break as a bad one..

  20. #20
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    Michelin's have relatively low pressure recommendations, but this chart is still quite instructive. For a 190+ lb rider, they'd recommend inflating a 23c tire to 110 PSI, the maximum listed on the sidewall. At my weight, I run 90 PSI on 23s, and just under 80 on 25s. I'll be switching to 25s when my current tires wear out.

    http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/m...rpressure.view

  21. #21
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    Did the LBS even ask you what your weight is? if not, what are they basing their recommendation on? Put it to you this way, if you had been running lower pressure, you might not have crashed. So, as others have said, if you need max psi in the 23 to keep from pinch flatting, you need bigger tires. You shouldn't "need" max pressure, it is less efficient than a lower psi and it gives you no leeway to work with if the conditions change. I'll admit 23s feel faster, but I'm not entirely convinced they are. They go plenty fast at Paris-Roubaix and some of those guys are on 27s.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by danl1 View Post
    Just some data on what everyone else has been saying:

    http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf
    I am following this on 25s and it's working really well for me. If you have a normal 45/55 weight distribution, then following the chart shows you might actually want close to 120lbs in the rear on 23s.

  23. #23
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    Thanks definitely going to experiment. The shop is recognized as one of the best in the area. The guy I bought it from who fitted me as well is a very good rider but this is definitely making me want to play around.

    On the other hand I went out yesterday for my 3rd ride back without any adjustments yet and I felt much better already. Getting my legs and guts back. ;).

  24. #24
    SoCal--S Beach to the Dam
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    Never had a pinch flat on my 23's and I'm 200lbs running 88f and 93r yet the guy at the bike shop said I should be at least 100 on the rear.
    Carbon,Steel,Aluminum or Ti,who really cares as long as we ride.

  25. #25
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    I have pinch flated rear 23 @ 110 psi and I weigh 165. I couldnt believe it but two holes told me so. the road didnt seem that rough, 30 mph shallow down hill.

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