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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachboyd View Post
    No. . .they are not the only company using EPS foam for the molding technique.
    We used it *way* back in 2013, but moved away from it to a different system.

    Even notorious open mold direct from China companies like Dengfu and ICAN are doing EPS foam core.
    This is directly from them:

    As the sole rim manufacturer implementing this cutting edge technique within our manufacturing process, combined with our aerospace-grade Toray carbon fiber, used in Boeing’s 777 aircraft and many others; Knight Wheels can offer a lighter weight, stronger, more reliable and precisely constructed rim.
    We're talking only rims here, not frames, but I'm sure you know that.

    I obviously don't know about all brands, just what they claim.

    Can I ask why you moved away from it? Did you move to a traditional air bladder and plug system?
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  2. #27
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    Corima uses it. I've built a bunch of those.

    I know that Alto uses it currently with their Taiwan (I guess - maybe China? I'm not sure), and there are plenty of others in China/Taiwan doing it.

    Boyd probably gets as many of these as we do, but every morning I get emails from Chinese vendors/trading companies/producers/whatever they actually are that invariably start off "glad to know you are in the market for Chinese carbon rims." Every. Time.

    Anyhow, about half of them sell wheels with foam core.

    It's not unique to Knight.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    Corima uses it. I've built a bunch of those.

    I know that Alto uses it currently with their Taiwan (I guess - maybe China? I'm not sure), and there are plenty of others in China/Taiwan doing it.

    Boyd probably gets as many of these as we do, but every morning I get emails from Chinese vendors/trading companies/producers/whatever they actually are that invariably start off "glad to know you are in the market for Chinese carbon rims." Every. Time.

    Anyhow, about half of them sell wheels with foam core.

    It's not unique to Knight.
    Is a foam core and EPS molding the same thing? I'm under the impression that it's not. The foam core inside of Lightweight wheels look nothing like EPS to me.

    And why make such a claim if it's not even close to true? Guess I'll have to ask them.
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  4. #29
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    Yes, it's an EPS foam core mold. . .and it's very widely used. It's not the foam filled rims like are found on some Corima and Mavic wheels, that is completely different.

    We moved away as there was troubles with drifting rim beds. Let's just say that when you have a 2.7mm nipple bed, but it happens to shift 20 degrees from center that could cause problems with nipples pulling through. "Fortunately" for us, that was something we could immediately see at even 60KgF so the amount of rims we caught with this problem was almost every single one.

    There was also not enough compaction with the expanding foam core. Moved to an inflated bladder system with washout but with a few unique properties to get really high PSI and good compaction. . .and no bladder drift as the resins begin to soften in the mold. It's obviously the technology the manufacturer developed so I'm not going to boast and say "we are the only ones using this awesome technology", but I recognized the benefits when choosing this manufacturer.
    www.boydcycling.com Handcrafted Revolution

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    Corima uses it. I've built a bunch of those.

    I know that Alto uses it currently with their Taiwan (I guess - maybe China? I'm not sure), and there are plenty of others in China/Taiwan doing it.

    Boyd probably gets as many of these as we do, but every morning I get emails from Chinese vendors/trading companies/producers/whatever they actually are that invariably start off "glad to know you are in the market for Chinese carbon rims." Every. Time.

    Anyhow, about half of them sell wheels with foam core.

    It's not unique to Knight.
    Absolutely correct! We do use EPS molding at Alto, and work with the Topkey facility in Taiwan to manufacture them. They're one of the only factories using painted silicone as opposed to latex bladders around the EPS core, so we can achieve a much nicer internal surface finish. If anyone has questions regarding our designs, manufacturing, etc, please don't hesitate to ask.

    Thanks guys!

  6. #31
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    Yes some are more aero but it depends on the yaw angle. For all the fancy engineering it took many years for these companies to realize that straight on in a wind tunnel is not a real world experience. Now 25 or 28 tires are more aero than 23 with high pressure. Took how long for them to figure it out. Aero at the right price is a hard call. Deep tends to equal more weight, aero, more $$ and sometimes less braking. Light, aero and affordable, pick two.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-an-key View Post
    Yes some are more aero but it depends on the yaw angle. For all the fancy engineering it took many years for these companies to realize that straight on in a wind tunnel is not a real world experience. Now 25 or 28 tires are more aero than 23 with high pressure. Took how long for them to figure it out. Aero at the right price is a hard call. Deep tends to equal more weight, aero, more $$ and sometimes less braking. Light, aero and affordable, pick two.
    Actually straight on or close to it is the majority of the real world experience. The big dogma that 10* and wider wind angles dominate was largely manufactured by those whose sales would benefit from it. A big majority of your time will be spent at less than 7.5* and then the rest of the time will be spread at widely varying angles. The only significant clusters of incidence happen at shallow angles, and they're big clusters.

    And I've yet to see any wider tire performing aerodynamically better on a given wheel, either in the many tests we've done first hand or other tests that I've seen. The system is often faster when you combine rolling resistance and aerodynamics.

    Depending on what you call light, you can get all three in your last sentence fairly easily. The problem is that is all too easy to get none of the above.

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