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Thread: Burping tires

  1. #1
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    Burping tires

    I'm new to the road tubeless game. I've been using MTB tubeless for years without issue, and it's what I'm used to. With that being the case, is it normal for a road tubeless tire in a road tubeless rim to be able to be burped with a thumb at ~80psi? That is certainly not the case with an MTB tire, even at 15-20psi. Those are very difficult to pop off of the bead. The road setup feels much less secure, and it seems wrong.

    I'm using a Hutchinson Sector 28, Easton EA90 SL wheel, and Conti Revo sealant. It all installed OK with a floor pump... not as simple and quick as a MTB tire, but after pumping it up to 100-110psi and letting it sit for 15 minutes, it seems to have sealed up everywhere. There was a very faint *pop* when I assume the bead popped into place, but nothing like I'm used to.

  2. #2
    changingleaf
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    That rim has a fairly narrow bead seat and the bead diameter is not particularly large. There are other variables as well, but for for these reasons the tire may not snap on as forcefully.

    Regardless it shouldn't be very easy to burp at 80 psi unless you run it up the side of a curb. I don't see how you'd be able to burp it with your thumb at that psi unless your pump is way off. Or, what I have noticed is that air is trapped between the outside of the bead and the side of the tire and you can push the side of the tire away from the bead hook enough to let that small around of air escape. A true burp happens with the tire bead is pushed off of the rims bead seat and into the center channel of the rim enough to let air escape.

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    Thanks for the info. Perhaps 'burp' is the wrong word. What I can do is push pretty forcefully with my thumb right above the bead, and air/sealant spurts out until I let go. It's not a little bit of air escaping somewhere it shouldn't be. The bead does not pop out or anything like that, and the tire is fine when I let go. I'm sure my pump isn't exact, but it'll do it with very high pressure in the tire. More than I use for riding, anyway.

    I went for a short ride today, and even being especially rough over various surfaces, there were no issues. So, I guess it's fine, even if its' not the same as a MTB tubeless setup.

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    It shouldn’t burp and I wouldn’t ride it like that. Maybe you got a defective tire or rim strip.

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    Hmm. Here's what's going on:



    It may be a little harder to do that it was when I first mounted the tire, but not much. It still makes my thumbs hurt, and I can't do it with only one thumb. That's maybe 70psi, so a little less than I run while riding. There is no rim strip on these rims (solid inner wall), and both tires did it. The 28 was a bit tight in my fork, so I have a 25 Fusion 5 Galactik coming today. We'll see if that's any different.

    Interestingly, I had non-Road Tubeless Kenda SB8s mounted to these rims, and they did the same thing, with maybe a touch less force. I figured that was because Road Tubeless and 'regular' tubeless are different, at least according to the internet.

  6. #6
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    Do your rims have humps on the rim bed to keep the beads in place?


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    Yep. It's basically a slightly smaller version of what's on all of my Easton MTB wheelsets. There a 2-3mm wide channel with a 1mm? tall shoulder on the inside to keep the bead in place.

    This is an EA90 XD, but it looks pretty much the same:



    (The review I pulled that photo from also mentioned easy burping of CX tires.)

  8. #8
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    Do the tires fit tight or loose on the rim? If loose, that may be the problem.


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    Nope, beads are all pretty tight and take a little effort to remove when the tire is not inflated. The 25 Galactik seems maybe a tiny bit tighter, but that one does the same thing as the Sectors if squeezed. I'm starting to think that this is just how Road Tubeless behaves.

    I sent an email to Easton... we'll see what they say.

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    I've heard that this is 'not normal' from several sources, including Easton, so it's back to the GP4000s and tubes. When I put those on, the bead made a loud *pop* when I was inflating it, just like a normal tubeless tire. It's also harder to remove the bead than the Hutchinsons when deflated. Ha.

  11. #11
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    Quick favor - can anybody with any sort of road tubeless setup try the thumb burp test? I hear "not normal" from everybody (though 2 weeks and no reply from Hutchinson...), but nobody seems to actually try it. Thanks.

  12. #12
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    Gravel bike with 700x35 tire.

    Pacenti sl23 with schwalbe g-one all round tle 35s.

    I can't do that with the tire @40 psi. I have to give the bead a decent push to pop it off with no tire pressure.

  13. #13
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    Thanks - good to know.

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    Not that this may help since I dont run road tubeless (A solution looking for a problem IMO) but I have a gravel tire setup of Schwalbe G-One 38C on DT Swiss R460 tubeless with no issues. Your video is bizarre. You seem to have a combo that just does not work together.

    Maybe put a couple layers of tubeless tape on the rims would make the beads seal better? I would just run the Conti tube setup

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    It’s got to be a messed up tire. But given my experience, I think there’s zero chance you’ll hear back from Hutchinson.

    You should have difficulty knocking a tire off the bead shelf at 1/4 the psi you’re able to do it at. I wouldn’t ride that combo, no chance. But I’d guess it’s the tire.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottma View Post
    Not that this may help since I dont run road tubeless (A solution looking for a problem IMO) but I have a gravel tire setup of Schwalbe G-One 38C on DT Swiss R460 tubeless with no issues. Your video is bizarre. You seem to have a combo that just does not work together.

    Maybe put a couple layers of tubeless tape on the rims would make the beads seal better? I would just run the Conti tube setup
    Yeah, it's weird. I'm back to the GP4000 up front, but still have the Sector on the back (I've been riding other bikes more lately). It's been there for ~100 miles of gravel, and it's been fine. Even with the iffy fit, it does ride quite well and hasn't had any real-world issues. But yeah, I'm going to take it off once I get a new back tire.

    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    It’s got to be a messed up tire. But given my experience, I think there’s zero chance you’ll hear back from Hutchinson.

    You should have difficulty knocking a tire off the bead shelf at 1/4 the psi you’re able to do it at. I wouldn’t ride that combo, no chance. But I’d guess it’s the tire.
    What's weird is that all three Hutchinsons I had did this exact thing. Luckily, I was able to return the Fusion, but I have the two Sectors to deal with. I'm sure they're fine tubed, so maybe I'll sell them with that comment. The bead on all is really rough, which makes me think either really crappy QC over at Hutchinson, or that's just how they are and nobody checks this sort of thing.



    That's not normal, at least in my tubeless (and non-tubeless) tire experience. I've owned lots of tires from lots of different brands, and they're pretty uniformly... uniform. None of that feathered, lumpy, broken-looking bead business.

    When it comes to hearing back, I'm not holding my breath. I'm also not going to buy any of their products in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah2000 View Post
    Yeah, it's weird. I'm back to the GP4000 up front, but still have the Sector on the back (I've been riding other bikes more lately). It's been there for ~100 miles of gravel, and it's been fine. Even with the iffy fit, it does ride quite well and hasn't had any real-world issues. But yeah, I'm going to take it off once I get a new back tire.



    What's weird is that all three Hutchinsons I had did this exact thing. Luckily, I was able to return the Fusion, but I have the two Sectors to deal with. I'm sure they're fine tubed, so maybe I'll sell them with that comment. The bead on all is really rough, which makes me think either really crappy QC over at Hutchinson, or that's just how they are and nobody checks this sort of thing.



    That's not normal, at least in my tubeless (and non-tubeless) tire experience. I've owned lots of tires from lots of different brands, and they're pretty uniformly... uniform. None of that feathered, lumpy, broken-looking bead business.

    When it comes to hearing back, I'm not holding my breath. I'm also not going to buy any of their products in the future.
    I can't do what you do in that video, period. My thumbs feel like they're going to break when I try. Tried it on two different brands of tires on three different brands of rim, none of which have ever burped on me:

    -Industry 9 AR25 + Schwalbe X-One 33mm @ 24 PSI
    -Pacenti SL25 + Specialized Turbo S-Works Tubeless 26mm @ 80 PSI
    - Giant PX2 (stock wheelset) + Specialized Roubaix 32mm (butyl bead unlike the above Specialized tire) @ 30ish PSI

    It's hard to tell from the angle of that shot you attached, but IMO those pictures look normal enough when the tire is folded. The bead gets lumpy when the tire is folded, see attached picture of brand new unmounted Vittoria Terreno Mud 33mm tubeless with some of that same lumpiness.

    Burping tires-2017-10-22-15.29.34.jpg

    Here is a picture of some other Vittoria & Schwalbe CX/Gravel/Road (31mm, 30mm, 23mm) tires that have been mounted and unmounted many times without any issues during mounting or riding. No bumpiness there, but they aren't folded.

    Burping tires-2017-10-22-15.35.30.jpg

    One possibility is that it was never properly seated to begin with. The picture you attached looks like a good road tubeless rim, bead shelf with a little lip AKA bead barb. Perhaps your tire didn't make it fully over that little lip? I've had that happen before with one set of rim/tire. Especially if it's a super tight bead (ie, a carbon bead 23mm tire on a 21mm internal rim). You mentioned it never really snapped into place but sort of gradually stopped leaking over 15 minutes. On rims that feature a bead barb, my road tubeless tires always ping into place with an alarming and terrifying snap. But maybe that's because I use a Bontrager TLR Flash Charger pump so it hits it with a large amount of air at once, like a compressor.

    When I have issues with a tire, I remove, clean, and reinstall new tubeless tape (get a bulk roll of generic tape from eBay or Amazon). It can't hurt. Depending on how hard you had to work to get the tire on, your tape can be in a sorry state at specific spots on the rim, interfering proper fit and seal.

    Ultimately, the unavoidable road tubeless truth remains: some tire/rim combos don't play well together. Maybe you found one

  18. #18
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    ^ Thanks for the reply.

    When it comes to the bead, they looked a bit like that even when not folded, and the inner lip (that would rest against the anti-burp bead in the rim) was inconsistent and wavy. Again, this stuff might not be the issue, but it struck me as weird. These rims have no rim tape, so that's not causing any trouble. Solid inner wall. I tend to agree with you when you say they just didn't seat properly. But... I pumped them up to 120psi with a floor pump, put in 100psi via a compressor, and emptied a CO2 into it. All of this was with the valve core out, and all had the same no *pop* result.

    Like you say, I guess it's just an incompatible pairing. It's odd, because Hutchinson and Easton list each other as being compatible (which is why I bought these after having some trouble getting tubeless Kendas to seat). I've had exactly zero issues with Easton and their tubeless MTB rims and a multitude of different tires. Whatever. I just ordered a new GP4000s II... and a couple of tubes.

    Still no word from Hutchinson. Ha.

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