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  1. #1
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    Hi all,
    If we are talking about a 28/32 spoke build, do the CX-RAY spokes make for a stiffer or more flexy wheel than the traditional double butted spokes?

    Also, besides the low weight of these spokes, any other advantage to going with these spokes over the traditional round spokes from a wheelbuilder's view?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Lookbiker; 07-24-2013 at 06:29 PM.

  2. #2
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    Using Sapim Race or DT Competition spokes will make a stiffer wheel since those spokes are thicker.
    Valley Cyclist Wheels www.valleycyclist.com

  3. #3
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookbiker View Post
    Hi all,
    If we are talking about a 28/32 spoke build, do the CX-RAY spokes make for a stiffer or more flexy wheel than the traditional double butted spokes?
    Thanks
    I've got wheelsets with all CX-Ray, 24/28 and I've got wheelsets with DT Comp, 32/32, two sets of each and I can't tell that any wheelset is any more flexy or stiffer. I'm 170lbs.
    .
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  4. #4
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    On paper thicker spokes will be stiffer but as Mike said the real world difference is nil. I like the Cxrays simply because windup is non issue.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen Cyclery View Post
    On paper thicker spokes will be stiffer but as Mike said the real world difference is nil. I like the Cxrays simply because windup is non issue.
    Woops, I have one more set too - a 24/28 DT Comp spoked wheelset and I went from it to a 24/28 CX-Ray set a few weeks ago and didn't notice a flex issue.
    .
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

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  6. #6
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Lookbiker View Post
    Hi all,
    If we are talking about a 28/32 spoke build, do the CX-RAY spokes make for a stiffer or more flexy wheel than the traditional double butted spokes?
    The wheel lateral stiffness depends on rim shape, rim material, spoke number and spoke type. When all are put together they establish the lateral movement of the wheel as influenced by the rider weight and power output. Wheel lateral stiffness is the result of a system where each component influences another and not the outcome of one component by itself.

    The type of spokes influences the wheel lateral stiffness as the count of spokes does. Aero type spokes like CxRays are more flexible than butted spokes like Race. However, if more rays are used the wheel lateral stiffness will be equivalent.

    The 28/32 count you are using is high enough to establish a safe threshold for most riders under most conditions as far as the wheel's lateral stiffness is concerned. So, yes, the butted spokes (Race) will make for stiffer wheels but the extra stiffness will not be detectable by the rider. Exceptions to this may be extremely heavy or powerful riders used to rock the bike side to side when climbing.
    To further illustrate the point, if you were using a low spoke arrangement and a deep carbon rim then the difference in lateral stiffness would have been more easily sensed by the rider due to the lateral displacement and the rubbing of the rim at the pads.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lookbiker View Post
    Also, besides the low weight of these spokes, any other advantage to going with these spokes over the traditional round spokes from a wheelbuilder's view?
    I take you mean round butted spokes, not round straight gauge spokes.

    Aero and looks are the advantages of the rays, IMO, unless one counts grams and thinks 4 grams make a difference. When you stack them closely to each other, like in the 28/32 arrangement, the aero benefit, or at least most of it, is dissipated so what you are left with is the looks and looks is what makes the bike industry go round and round.

    Visually detecting spoke windup may be easier with the bladed spokes but proper stress relieving is indispensable.

  7. #7
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    The lateral stiffness imparted by the spokes will be proportional to the spokes' stiffness. CX-Rays are equivalent to Lasers in that respect.

    But it is also proportional to the square of the bracing angle, and this can vary a good bit depending on the hub geometry. Flex and play within the hub can also be a large factor... as well as rim stiffness.

    Lower aero resistance and easy of building are the best reasons to use them.

  8. #8
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    I'm sorry to say this...but I can't get into the physics of different spokes. All I can add is that I have a set of ROL Race SL with a 20/24 count and CX Ray spokes...things ride extremely well...handle rough roads well...spin up well...I can't tell you it's 100% the spokes...but the wheels ride wonderfully and have handled anything I can dish out superbly.

  9. #9
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    I think your impressions are common for the riders in the fat part of the bell curve - or the "average" rider in the 140 to 175 lbs range. You are fortunate to be fine on almost anything.

    The effects of inadequate lateral stiffness start becoming apparent for the riders at the tail end of the bell curve; us heavier boys and/or riders capable of high power output and riding styles conducive to the amplification of forces seen by the wheel. This is where the trade-offs between more and heavier spokes vs. less and lighter spokes become evident.

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  11. #11
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    In my experience they are easier to build with assuming you have the slotted tool to keep them from twisting during tensioning. They are a tiny bit lighter and more aero than DB14 spokes but I have had a few break and more than few break on my rear tandem wheel which I had to rebuild with DB14. I think in your case they would be fine but question if they are worth the extra cost over DB14, lasers or revs.

  12. #12
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    +1 jnbrown

    I've a 24/20 with XR200 on my Felt F75. Building the wheels were easier than with the Sapim Lasers because I could prevent the spoke from twisting when I tightened down the nipple.

  13. #13
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    I just finished a set of wheels that are 980 grams. 20 front 24 rear.
    I weight 215.
    The bike weights 12.5 complete. The titanium spokes broke right away. I replaced all spokes w CX rays. Have ridden about 5 hundred miles in about 6 to eight weeks. No breakage. Wheels feel stiff. Had a couple good climbs in there. So far so good. These spokes seem to really work

  14. #14
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    Which Ti spokes did you use? Were they built to high standards? The wheels I mean.
    Last edited by rruff; 01-05-2014 at 08:00 AM.

  15. #15
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    High standard?
    Why use Ti when the CX Ray weight about the same and are allot stronger?

  16. #16
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    Ti spokes are lighter... the material itself is ~60% as heavy as SS. Strength is debatable.

  17. #17
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    http://www.sapim.be/spokes/aero/cx-ray
    These things don't break!

  18. #18
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    CX-RAY spoke Question-imageuploadedbytapatalk1388959908.049660.jpgCX-RAY spoke Question-imageuploadedbytapatalk1388959920.515018.jpg
    Real world.
    980 gram wheels w titanium spokes.
    Rated for under 200 pound riders.
    I weight over 200 pounds.
    Guess what they broke.
    My Answer.
    CX Ray spokes
    The weight is exactly the same as the double butted titanium spokes. So the wheels stay super light weight.
    Here is a picture of the double butted titanium spoke and the CX Ray spoke. 4 grams each.
    I have 500 miles on these wheels in about 6-8 weeks and 4000 feet of climbing.

  19. #19
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    Your weight could be off by 25%. With your weight on one spoke, 24 spokes could weigh anywhere from 84 to 108 gm.

    You need scale with more resolution, or weigh many spokes at one time. Weigh ten and your uncertainty goes down by a factor of ten.
    ... 'cuz that's how I roll.

  20. #20
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    CX-RAY spoke Question

    I agree the scale could be better.
    What I wanted was a super light bike that can take as much wattage as I could put in. Like heavy climbing and fast sprinting. The TI don't work for me. The CX Ray are allot better and again that's for me. In the end the bike weight is 12.5 w cages and pedals that is super light for me.

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