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  1. #26
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    Thanks again, Everyone.

    It looks like the custom wheel option is perfect for anyone who wants to get snowed under with options.

    It turns out that the bike shop (Blacksmith in Toronto) I will be buying my new bike from also builds wheels.

    He has lots of options, but I'm narrowing it down to HED rims and Chris King hubs.

    Does anyone know the difference between Ardennes and Belgium rims? Both seem to exist in 23 and 25 (plus) widths, but I can't seem to find any info on the difference between them.

    I like the Look of the Belgium better, but I'd prefer to choose based on spec. Is one a bit lighter, or stronger, etc?

    Thanks for any insight.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanK- View Post
    Thanks again, Everyone.

    It looks like the custom wheel option is perfect for anyone who wants to get snowed under with options.

    It turns out that the bike shop (Blacksmith in Toronto) I will be buying my new bike from also builds wheels.

    He has lots of options, but I'm narrowing it down to HED rims and Chris King hubs.

    Does anyone know the difference between Ardennes and Belgium rims? Both seem to exist in 23 and 25 (plus) widths, but I can't seem to find any info on the difference between them.

    I like the Look of the Belgium better, but I'd prefer to choose based on spec. Is one a bit lighter, or stronger, etc?

    Thanks for any insight.
    Ardennes are not rims, but full wheels. The least expensive ones they have in disc brake version are $700. They come in 24 spoke front and rear. They have a whopping 21mm internal width. Make sure a rim this wide with your choice of tires will fit in your frame before you end up having to send them back and pay return shipping. You can buy them direct:

    https://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes-...-shipping-now/

    Belgiums are rims only. You need to have a wheel builder put these together with your choice of hubs, spokes and nipples.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  3. #28
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    Thanks again, Lombard.

    He had both as rims in his shop, so I assumed there was a difference since it seemed that I had a choice of which to use.

    I had seen what you posted, that HED shows wheels as Ardennes, but the rim only is Belgium.

    Appreciated.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanK- View Post
    Thanks again, Lombard.

    He had both as rims in his shop, so I assumed there was a difference since it seemed that I had a choice of which to use.

    I had seen what you posted, that HED shows wheels as Ardennes, but the rim only is Belgium.

    Appreciated.
    Hmmm. Interesting that your shop was able to get Ardennes as rim only. The only difference I can see between the Ardennes and the Belgium+ are drilling options. It looks like Ardennes are only 24 hole. Belgium+ comes in 24, 28 or 32. IMO, 28 is the minimum I would go for a disc brake bike as the forces of braking on a disc brake wheel are tremendous. My preference would be 32, but then I tend to be more concerned about durability and less about weight savings.

    You mention you are leaning toward Chris King hubs. They seem to be the holy grail of boutique hubs for some reason. A couple of things here. Chris King hubs use an aluminum freehub body which is prone to gouging by your cassette. Whether this happens to you will probably depend on how hard you ride. Some riders have this problem after only a couple thousand miles, some never have it. Just thought I'd mention it.

    There are two hubs I would recommend. Shimano Dura-Ace 9000 or White Industries T11. These have a Ti freehub which is harder than aluminum. The weight difference is minuscule. Which of those you choose will depend on whether you like a quiet freehub or a noisy one. If you like quiet, go with Shimano. If you like noisier, go with White Industries.

    Although dated, here is a good review of hubs:

    Hub Review - Fairwheel Bikes Blog

    Edit: Sorry, this review above is for rim brake hubs. Brain fart on my part. Shimano Dura-Ace is rim only. However, White Industries makes two excellent disc brake hubs - the CLD and XMR depending on whether your disc brakes are center lock or 6 bolt:

    CLD — White Industries

    xmr — White Industries
    Last edited by Lombard; 1 Week Ago at 05:02 AM.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanK- View Post

    It looks like the custom wheel option is perfect for anyone who wants to get snowed under with options.
    Not really; you could just throw a dart at the choices and come up with a better wheelset than what mavic (or most complete options) offer.


    Pick a rim that suits your aero/tire width needs

    Pick a spoke count that suits your weight/brakes

    Pick a hub that is well regarded and has the bearing interface you like


    Done! Really not hard, and when you're looking at the good stuff all the choices are good. Going with a reliable wheelbuilder is kind of a slam-dunk for making a good choice, no matter what specific bits you end up with. We can talk about the specific parts, but once you're looking at the good stuff it doesn't really matter.





    'I'm 180lbs, i'll be doing fast group rides in rolling terrain with rim brakes'

    'I'm 210lbs and like to do long solo rides with ~6k of climbing, so i'm looking forward to disk brakes, and sometimes i'll take a dirt trail to connect my route'

    Those people are going to have fairly different wheel builds.









    By contrast, complete wheelsets are designed to be stylish and suit an 'average' rider, while fitting tidily in a product line up and cheap to build. They're great for nobody but the manufacturer.
    Last edited by bubble; 1 Week Ago at 11:02 AM.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubble View Post
    Pick a rim that suits your aero/tire width needs

    Pick a spoke count that suits your weight/brakes

    Pick a hub that is well regarded and has the bearing interface you like

    By contrast, complete wheelsets are designed to be stylish and suit an 'average' rider, while fitting tidily in a product line up and cheap to build. They're great for nobody but the manufacturer.
    I essentially followed that selection criteria (plus a couple of others) and ended up purchasing C24s.

    they've been stellar in every regard...
    the 45th POTUS is inept, corrupt, and a pathological liar. and those may be his better qualities...

  7. #32
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    "Pick a rim that suits your aero/tire width needs"

    So with a custom build, what are the rim options on an Aero rim 40-50mm with an aluminum brake track? I already have some low profile wheelsets, but also like an aero rim option as well. I think "pre-build" wheels end up as an only option - correct?
    I had (have) as set of SRAM S60's that I bought used and I've used for around 7 years with zero problems....until now. Rear hub broke and no replacement parts so looking for a replacement type wheelset. I really don't see any options with custom builds so now the options look like HED Jet 6's, Mavic Cosmics, Shimano C50/C60's...etc.
    or am I missing a custom option??





    [QUOTE=bubble;5150522]Not really; you could just throw a dart at the choices and come up with a better wheelset than what mavic (or most complete options) offer.


    Pick a rim that suits your aero/tire width needs

    Pick a spoke count that suits your weight/brakes

    Pick a hub that is well regarded and has the bearing interface you like


    Done! Really not hard, and when you're looking at the good stuff all the choices are good. Going with a reliable wheelbuilder is kind of a slam

  8. #33
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    Thanks for this Lombard.

    I'm looking at both the Belgium and Belgium + rims and I'm thinking maybe the + is overkill for my road riding. Realted to the sidewall cut issue referenced in your article, I've seen some reviews of the Continental GP 4000 S II that have complained about sidewall cuts.

    Given that I will only be on road and not gravel, the Belgium sounds like the way to go I think.

  9. #34
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    Thanks Lombard...interesting you mention noise. I had begun to consider Dura Ace hubs because I do find the Chris King "buzz" that some people think is great to be a bit obnoxious.

  10. #35
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    Fair enough. I just wish I had the experience of some of the folks on this forum.

    Luckily I have another month or so before I have to pull the trigger on the wheel build.

    In that time I'll have had a chance to digest all the info that's been offered here.

    Thanks

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvanK- View Post
    Thanks for this Lombard.

    I'm looking at both the Belgium and Belgium + rims and I'm thinking maybe the + is overkill for my road riding. Realted to the sidewall cut issue referenced in your article, I've seen some reviews of the Continental GP 4000 S II that have complained about sidewall cuts.

    Given that I will only be on road and not gravel, the Belgium sounds like the way to go I think.
    If you will never ride on gravel and plan to run tires no wider than 25mm, there is no reason to get the +. The regular Belgium C2 is a great rim, though it does have a machined brake track for rim brakes and does not come in a disc only version. These can certainly be used with disc brakes, but I thought I'd mention it in case it bothers you aesthetically.

    Yes, when you put a narrow tire on a wide rim, it has a "bell" profile which makes sidewalls more prone to cuts. However, this is more of an issue with off-road riding where you encounter things like sharp pebbles.
    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas."
    -- Warren Buffett

    "Education is what you get when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get when you don't. -- Pete Seeger



  12. #37
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    Wow Mike, I start a little search to replace my 10 year old Magic and the first thread I find is full of great advice from you. I'm heading straight over to November Bikes to check them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T. View Post
    Here is the best deal you will find for a set of wheels anywhere - the BWW BSR 28 at $400. Complete with Sapim CX-Ray spokes too -

    Blackset Race 24 700c Wheel Set

    That's $100 less than most other wheels with similar sourced parts but with the CX-Rays.

    Any Mavic wheelsets would be my last choice in wheels and especially Mavic with a carbon clincher rim. There is zero benefit to a carbon clincher rim. Just check on the availability and price of one of those rims if you were ever to break one on your bad roads. If you're ok with the answer to that then, what the heck, have at 'em.

    For wheels with upper end quality parts, you will have a hard time finding anything better than November wheels. They are well known to us on this forum -

    November Bicycles: Race smart. - Home

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