Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178

    DT Swiss RR.1 / Am. Classic Hubs - opinions please!

    I'm having a new wheel set built for me using DT Swiss RR.1 rims, Am. Classic Hubs, DT Revolution Spokes 28 X on the front and 32 X on the rear with DT Competition on the drive side.

    I'm still waiting for the hubs to arrive so I have time to change the specifications on the build. For what it's worth, I just heard a report today that the RR1.1s have had some rim splits around the spoke holes, I never heard this before today and have no idea if it's true.

    I'm 6'1" and weigh 220 lbs. and have had success with wheels that are less robust that what these should be. My goal is to have a "lighter" wheelset with reasonable strength and durability. I'm looking for comments from those using these rims and opinions on the build including any suggested changes. Thanks!
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  2. #2
    FTF
    FTF is offline
    banned
    Reputation: FTF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,858
    The DT rims are good, but I'd stay far far away from AC hubs, every year they have the same problems(or new ones in addition to the old ones), and every year they "fix" last years problems. I'd stay away from them no matter what, but ESP. at your weight. Tune hubs would be better.

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178
    I appreciate your feedback and although the hubs have already been ordered, I could go a different direction. I like/considered the Tune hubs, but I got such a good deal on the ACs that I went that direction. DWI, I've owned a set of AC Cr's since this summer and have had good success with them even given my weight. Outside of the cam plate replacement, what other issues should I be aware of?
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  4. #4
    banned
    Reputation: Under ACrookedSky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    608
    Quote Originally Posted by blandin
    Outside of the cam plate replacement, what other issues should I be aware of?
    It's still early in the year. We are still waiting to see what this year's problems will be.

    Just buy a set of Record or Chorus or Dura Ace hubs and be happy that the few extra grams are due to a proven, quality design.

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178
    Wow, I didn't think that Am. Classic hubs would be received with such acrimony. I actually got the idea for this wheelset from forum member Juanmoretime after he posted about his build at the beginning of the month. Exchanged a number of PM's with him (he was very patient and very helpful) and he pointed me to his source for the hubs. I've found a builder who will supply the DT Swiss rims, spokes and labor and the whole deal will come in at $355 which seems to be a pretty good bargain. That being said, anyone out there with some advice on this build other than the Am. Classic hubs are a bad choice?
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  6. #6
    Custom Title= ?
    Reputation: Bixe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    717

    DT Hoops

    I've three wheelsets built w/ DT RR1.1 rims. One of the rims did crack several of the eyelets. The wheel was built with CX-Ray spokes around DT 240S hubs and spoke tensions were well inside of the factory specs. The rim is being replaced under warranty. My understanding is that early runs of these rims did have some quality control problems and the failed rim was out of that batch. Nonetheless, I'll build the next set of wheels with the DT rims.

    I'd stay away from the AC hubs. There are several hubs that are considerably more dependable and serviceable than the AC's, a couple mentioned in posts above....
    Airplane Mode is not just for flying... or riding.

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178
    Bixe, thanks for the info on the rim problem with a particular early run by DT, I feel much better on that count. Your comment on the AC hubs makes it unanimous so far that there are better choices for reliability and perhaps strength. Is there anyone out there with another more positive opinion? I'd hate to go forward with the wheels as planned only to be disappointed.
    Last edited by blandin; 01-29-2006 at 07:14 AM.
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    146
    Quote Originally Posted by blandin
    Bixe, thanks for the info on the rim problem with a particular early run by TD, I feel much better on that count. Your comment on the AC hubs makes it unanimous so far that there are better choices for reliability and perhaps strength. Is there anyone out there with another more positive opinion? I'd hate to go forward with the wheels as planned only to be disappointed.
    I have just finnished building up Two sets of wheels with DT RR1.1 rims and AM classic hubs. Both sets were built on 32 hole hubs.

    The front wheels were built with DT Rev's and alloy nipples on one wheel and brass nipples on the other wheel (no reason for the switch in nipple material).
    The rears I went with a straight gauge DT spoke. Not sure of the model on both drive and none drive side.

    I seem to be one of the only people that have had no trouble at all with the AM classic hubs. I perform yearly maintenance on them and replace the bearings when I feel any looseness in the bearing. Then lubricate all friction areas with a good synthetic grease.

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178
    crewman, I'm glad to hear from someone with a positive experience with the AC hubs. Can you tell me what your wheelsets weigh? I hoping to come in at something under 1500 grams and would be interested in knowing your results. Thanks!
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: DIRT BOY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    7,855

    That's a damn good price, but AC...

    seems to have many issues with their hubs. But really light does have a price...

    But at that that price is hard to argue. You could always replace the bearings when they fail.

    Did you see the post a few ones down about some wheels I posted? Primavera 350?

    PM or e-mail me if you want info with the Primavera hubs and DT rims.
    I want to get word out on these hubs ;).....

    DT Rims quality is really nice and I am suprised to hear about failures. I wonder if thse were OEM rims mabe by Alex in China for DT Swiss or they really just had a bad batch.
    Last edited by DIRT BOY; 01-29-2006 at 07:45 AM.
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    128
    There's no price where I would consider AC hubs a bargain. Garbage is never a bargain, no matter what they charge you for it.
    If you've got the money, get the wheels built with 240s hubs.
    If not, do 'em on Ultegra hubs.

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    68

    Don't do it!

    You'll be much better off with any hubs other than am classic, I built a set of zipps with classic hubs. they were not good. American Classic currently sponsers my local race team and the team price is still not worth the headache. I use white indus. hubs on my race wheels and they are extremely smooth with no problems.

  13. #13
    Resident Dutchbag
    Reputation: rogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,011
    Someone on the German Tour-forum had these issues with the rims, got a free replacement, wheel was sent to DT-Swiss for analysis. After some time the new rim ripped as well and the guy switched to CXP33s. This could be due to bad build or maybe the guy was just very unlucky.



    Originally posted by thatsmybush:
    I can only speak for my self, but if Fergie wanted to rub her lovely lady lumps on me, I could play the role of "human stripper pole."

  14. #14
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    948

    Yup. .

    Quote Originally Posted by Bixe
    One of the rims did crack several of the eyelets. My understanding is that early runs of these rims did have some quality control problems and the failed rim was out of that batch.
    I've build wheelsets with both the DT and Mavic Open Pro CD's, and the Mavic is a better rim IMO. I don't get everyone jumping on the DT bandwagen. Their spokes are good, but their rims are just ok. And yes American Classic hubs suck too. I'd get a set of White Industries or Campy Record and be done with it.

  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178

    Comments from my wheel builder.

    Ok, you guys have me thinking I've made the worse decision possible regarding a new wheelset, not exactly a warm and fuzzy feeling. With that in mind, I forwarded a condensed version of the comments I've received along with the pictures of the split rims to my wheel builder and this is his response. BTW, I'm not buying the hubs from the builder, he's supplying rims, spokes/nipples and labor.

    "Most of the problems associated with AC, don't pertain to your situation. Their builds on prebuilt wheels have been inconsistent at times (I'm building them, not AC). Another issue they have is with bearings. Most of the problems have been with older models and they constantly tweak the design. The 05 and newer models have different (better) bearings than older models and larger axles. They had a recall regarding the engagement plate recently that was backed up very quickly. Overall, I have had 2 bearing issues (both older model). Since the 05' I haven't encountered any and don't know of someone who has.

    The rims you show me are a first for me. Most rims failures of that type are due to over tensioning the spokes. I would venture to guess that the pic is of a drive side spoke from the rear wheel. I read about people putting 120-150kgf on rims like this and the Open Pro all the time. I build this rim and the OP to 100-110kgf range. That is tight enough to prevent spokes from going slack without having failure issues like this.

    DT and AC really back their products. There are a lot of people using the hubs/rims you have chosen and have been very happy with them. I personally have had 2 sets of wheels with AC hubs (one currently) and my close friends add up to another half dozen wheels as well. You just can't beat the performance you get for that price. If there ever were a problem with the bearings I would take care of the problem for you."
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  16. #16
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Juanmoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    2,402

    Kind of confirms my last PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by blandin
    Ok, you guys have me thinking I've made the worse decision possible regarding a new wheelset, not exactly a warm and fuzzy feeling. With that in mind, I forwarded a condensed version of the comments I've received along with the pictures of the split rims to my wheel builder and this is his response. BTW, I'm not buying the hubs from the builder, he's supplying rims, spokes/nipples and labor.

    "Most of the problems associated with AC, don't pertain to your situation. Their builds on prebuilt wheels have been inconsistent at times (I'm building them, not AC). Another issue they have is with bearings. Most of the problems have been with older models and they constantly tweak the design. The 05 and newer models have different (better) bearings than older models and larger axles. They had a recall regarding the engagement plate recently that was backed up very quickly. Overall, I have had 2 bearing issues (both older model). Since the 05' I haven't encountered any and don't know of someone who has.

    The rims you show me are a first for me. Most rims failures of that type are due to over tensioning the spokes. I would venture to guess that the pic is of a drive side spoke from the rear wheel. I read about people putting 120-150kgf on rims like this and the Open Pro all the time. I build this rim and the OP to 100-110kgf range. That is tight enough to prevent spokes from going slack without having failure issues like this.

    DT and AC really back their products. There are a lot of people using the hubs/rims you have chosen and have been very happy with them. I personally have had 2 sets of wheels with AC hubs (one currently) and my close friends add up to another half dozen wheels as well. You just can't beat the performance you get for that price. If there ever were a problem with the bearings I would take care of the problem for you."
    If you seek an opinion you will get it. Ride them and have fun.
    For my next trick I will now set myself on fire!

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178
    Thanks Juan, I almost forgot that, that's the whole idea!
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3
    I have set of wheels almost like the ones you are building (AC 28h hubs front and rear, DT rr1.1 rims, DT Rev. spokes, brass nipples).

    I have been riding them for a year now and I´m quite pleased. The only "problem" I have had is when riding in the rain the hubs are not very well sealed. I have to dismantle the hubs to prevent seizing. I replaced the bearings in the front hub with ceramics so water is no problem there now. I am one of those rare few who have had no really bad experiences with the AC hubs. For the price they are IMO good hubs (good weight too if you are a WW).

  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: KMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    790

    Correct...

    It's never cheap to have to rebuild your wheelset with a new (and different) hub AND new spokes. Would just build it right the 1st time.

    KMan


    Quote Originally Posted by CNY rider
    There's no price where I would consider AC hubs a bargain. Garbage is never a bargain, no matter what they charge you for it.
    If you've got the money, get the wheels built with 240s hubs.
    If not, do 'em on Ultegra hubs.

  20. #20
    T.R., conservationist
    Reputation: jerman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    219
    After researching a couple of months, and looking at all mentioned above, I settled on:

    Alex Crostini R3.1/3.2 24F1X, 28R 3XDS/2XNDS (off-set rear)
    Sapim cx-ray sokes
    DT Swiss hubs, non-radial
    probably DT Prolock nipples

    Hopefully a good trade off of light weight with strength, durability, and fair affordability.

    See the "Lightweight Rim" thread under SAVE SOME WEIGHT. Ligero did post on an awesome looking carbon reinforced rim at 410gm. This rim's stiffness had him impressed, which says something.

    Good luck,
    Jerry

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: blandin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    178
    Quote Originally Posted by marcuss
    I have set of wheels almost like the ones you are building (AC 28h hubs front and rear, DT rr1.1 rims, DT Rev. spokes, brass nipples).

    I have been riding them for a year now and I´m quite pleased. The only "problem" I have had is when riding in the rain the hubs are not very well sealed. I have to dismantle the hubs to prevent seizing. I replaced the bearings in the front hub with ceramics so water is no problem there now. I am one of those rare few who have had no really bad experiences with the AC hubs. For the price they are IMO good hubs (good weight too if you are a WW).
    Nice to hear you have an overall good experience with your wheels. Personally, I hate riding in the rain and so I avoid it all costs, which in this case sounds like a thing if the hubs have issues with water.
    '00 TiSports Titanium - DA 9 speed------.--- '01 KHS Flite 800 - DA/Utegra 9 speed mix
    02
    Ellsworth Flight - Ultegra 10 speed -..'03 Basso Coral - Ultegra 10 speed
    '03 Specialized Allez Pro - DA 10 speed .'04 Scattante CFR Limited - DA 9 speed
    '05 KHS Flite 2000 - Ultegra 9 speed -..... '06 Flyte SRS-3 - DA 9 speed-------
    '05 Serotta Fierte - Utegra 10 speed--......-'07 Pedal Force RS - SRAM Force

  22. #22
    Defender of Freedom...
    Reputation: Ramjm_2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    610
    Quote Originally Posted by marcuss
    I have set of wheels almost like the ones you are building (AC 28h hubs front and rear, DT rr1.1 rims, DT Rev. spokes, brass nipples).

    I have been riding them for a year now and I´m quite pleased. The only "problem" I have had is when riding in the rain the hubs are not very well sealed. I have to dismantle the hubs to prevent seizing. I replaced the bearings in the front hub with ceramics so water is no problem there now. I am one of those rare few who have had no really bad experiences with the AC hubs. For the price they are IMO good hubs (good weight too if you are a WW).
    Marcuss,

    Just curious where you procured the ceramic bearings. Thanks!
    It never gets easier. You just go faster. Greg LeMond

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjm_2000
    Marcuss,

    Just curious where you procured the ceramic bearings. Thanks!
    At bocabearings.com

    front 688
    rear 6001

    I actually bougt the hybrid ceramic but they stock both

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: DIRT BOY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    7,855

    Rims like these??

    Nobium 19mm Nobium/Carbon

    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Sea Otter Classic

Hot Deals

Contest


Latest RoadBike Articles


Latest Videos

RoadbikeReview on Facebook